Autopsy Round 2, 2024: Hawks go to hell

[jive]

We don't have the cattle guys. You can pick apart game plan all you like, but the concerning thing for me is, we've been at the bottom for 5-6 years now, and we've still got one of the most vanilla, underwhelming lists in the comp. With the exception of a select few, we seem to be drafting too many role players.

Patience. Melbourne exposed how immature the side is. They are a very experienced outfit.
Might take longer than expected to get to that level consistently.

I wouldn’t exactly call Weddle, Wiz, Mackenzie, C.Mac, Day, Nuke, Ginni “vanilla”. Lots of upside in that crop. They need time and experience.

The proper rebuild only really started when Mitchell started.

 

[Glebehawk]

Patience. Melbourne exposed how immature the side is. They are a very experienced outfit.
Might take longer than expected to get to that level consistently.

I wouldn’t exactly call Weddle, Wiz, Mackenzie, C.Mac, Day, Nuke, Ginni “vanilla”. Lots of upside in that crop. They need time and experience.

The proper rebuild only really started when Mitchell started.

Patience. Melbourne exposed how immature the side is. They are a very experienced outfit.
Might take longer than expected to get to that level consistently.

I wouldn’t exactly call Weddle, Wiz, Mackenzie, C.Mac, Day, Nuke, Ginni “vanilla”. Lots of upside in that crop. They need time and experience.

The proper rebuild only really started when Mitchell started.

Theyre good players, but we still need to hit the draft hard to find elite.

 

[SSSSSS]

Take out Gunston and Breust who I'm not sure if either will be part of our side next year and our average game across our 22 today is 66 games.

Just 6 players with >100 games.
Melbourne had 13 players >100 games and an average experience of 117 games. They are 2-3 seasons minimum ahead of us in terms footy experience and body conditioning.

It really showed.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

The second youngest list in the comp, with a new forward line and a midfield that is missing our 2023 B&F winner.

We were never going to storming into 2024.

I don’t think anybody expected us to storm into the season but we have been very ordinary to start it.
If we’re expecting a 22 year old midfielder to suddenly resurrect our season then we are in trouble.
He won’t be around for another 6 weeks, so do we pause the season until then?
One day we will the 3rd, fourth, youngest list. You can’t use that excuse forever.

 

[Simon Crawshay]

Some thoughts from watching the game live at the G today

Positives
1. Sicily and Scrimmers were very good down back. Sicily had a few kicked on him at the end by Fritsch but Fristch is no hack so I'll forgive that. Scrimmers looks like he can make that CHB position his own going forward.

2. Josh Weddle causing havok down forward, hopefully we see more of that this year. Crazy to think this only his second year, the upside on this guy is so high. Very much prime Kouta vibes from him today.

3. Wizard Watson looking the goods. Yes he's sprayed a few shots but damn this kids has some serious fizz about him. Will be a an All Australian forward at some stage.

4. Ginnivan and Chol have been more than serviceable so far. Ginni in particular is playing like he wants to prove to the wider AFL that he is a serious AFL player.

5. Worps had another solid game. If nothing else you know what you are going to get with Worps. Just an absolute workhorse.


Negatives
1. That first quarter. Seriously what the hell was that all about. I've never seen so many meaningless possessions and marks for the sum total of one solitary point!

2. Our lack of a discernable game plan. Are we a side that plays slow and measured, a side that takes teams on with fast play, a side that wants to win the contested ball? Your guess is as good as mine at the moment.

3. Reeves. I don't think he played particularly bad today but realistically this is probably his peak output. 10 possession and 1 mark type of game. I'm not sure that is sustainable but we don't really have much else in the cupboard when it comes to rucks so will probably have to persist and hope he comes good.

4. Newk looks way off his best. Not sure what the deal is, hopefully just a minor blip in his upward trajectory (Petracca had similar issues when he was young)

5. Centre clearances. We are getting absolutely killed in these at the moment.

My main takeaway from the match today was talent wise we are better placed than we have been in a while but our lack of discernable game style is a bit of a worry.

 

[manB]

Efforts was the expectation and we failed to give 100%. I don't think anyone was expecting win, but this one was putrid.

Lewis is main concern, out of Chol and Lewis, if Chol is looking best forward then we are on trouble.

Bring in anyone who is willing to put efforts.

 

[Buzz Hawk]

Patience. Melbourne exposed how immature the side is. They are a very experienced outfit.
Might take longer than expected to get to that level consistently.

I wouldn’t exactly call Weddle, Wiz, Mackenzie, C.Mac, Day, Nuke, Ginni “vanilla”. Lots of upside in that crop. They need time and experience.

The proper rebuild only really started when Mitchell started.

I love Mitch and can see what he is trying to achieve, but this is his third season.

 

[clarkoscluster]

Pretty tough day at the MCG - the sun was shining but nothing else was - we had more supporters, and were louder on the few occasions we had some highlights.
Melbourne supporters at the beach, rather than the snow?

I was with two other Hawks, and our joint opinions:

1. Worst Hawthorn performance since that game against Port (pre-Clarko?) when we didn’t score a goal until the 3rd quarter

2. Mitchell has no game plan - but the record number of possessions in the 50 defensive arc were good for our stats.

3. Melbourne aren’t that good: we just didn’t even test them

4. Mitchell interviews well on TV, something Clarko never did.

5. The coffee at the MCG is pretty decent.


Nothing else I can think of.

Pretty poor take. a) i can’t remember ever going goalless against port before halftime and b) we’ve had some absolute thrashings over the past 20 years (including the clarko era).. hard to say a 55 point loss to last years semi finalist is the worst of them.

 

[RoughysMullet]

All I'll say is Petracca is an excellent footballer

Sent from my SM-S916B using Tapatalk

If I remember correctly he was useless for his 1st 5 seasons- we need to be patient with our young players…

 

[bindas12]

I read through about 7 pages before i couldnt read any more.

I mentioned before the game that Melbourne's defensive structures are the best in the game. In a lot of ways we got a dose of our own medicine only 10 years ago. Our defensive structures were the envy of the competition. Melbourne were always going to be hard to beat. We had very similar problems last year transitioning the ball.

That wasnt our major problem our Midfield has started this year like they did last year. Our first qtr was diabolical so many weak efforts at tackling just throwing the arm out at someone running by. No intent no thirst for the contest.

Thankfully Twe came out in the second qtr with a lot more grunt. It was our best qtr its the way we should have played the game. We cant sustain that high intensity all game but we dropped off significantly.

Like many have mentioned Finn looks like he will be out of the side next week huss has to come in along with Seamus and or bailey. We need Amon back on the wing

Reeves was the least of our problems you ppl are over looking the fact that Max is the best in the comp and he isnt getting in the votes this week. Yes Reeves was beaten but he wasnt disgraced like Mcevoy was many times.

We will have growing pains in the middle our mids are not ready physically. I read quite a bit about how we r so poor in our tackling in pre season but guess what we wetent facing petracca and oliver in pre season training.

Going by what a lot of u have said about youngsters. You have no bloody patience. Petracca was playing VFL at frenchie and wards age. I know i saw plenty of games for boxhill where he was in it and teally didnt set the world on fire. Just remember the wards and mackenzies are still kids a long way to go. Till they build their bodies to be genuine stars of the AFL.

The outcome of this was predictable after that first qtr. We still need to forge our identity as a team. We came up against a very good side and we faltered we wont be the first or the last

dude, have you seen North's midfield kids ? they're the same age. Go watch how they played today!

 

[H00t]

Wouldn’t it be nice if he could lift in an area where he is so poor, so he wasn’t so reliant on the “only thing he offers” to be our first choice ruck?

It would be nice if he did but given what he’s shown so far any improvement in that area will likely be limited and not as important to the team than giving our mids silver service out of the middle.

When he’s giving our mids first use we are a much better team.

 

[TheFourPillars]

Holy s**t, McEvoy was a f$&king champion for our club. I can't remember the last time our #1 Ruck was so unintimidating. ffs, the two shortest players on the ground today we're more intimidating than Reeves.

No one said Mcevoy wasnt any good. What i did say though that he got dominated in the Ruck by Max Gawn. Max also dominated around the ground against us. Mcevoy was a courageous and really good player for us and good captain. The reference was in regards to Reeves having no influence on the game and i argue that he did because Max was not domimant like he normally was even when Mcevoy was running around for us. It is fact. Reeves was not the main reason we lost.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Hodge was already an AA and best and fastest winner at age 20.
Mitchell, was different, more consistent in his level.

Nah, it was his fourth season (2005) when he really took off.

 

[SSSSSS]

If I remember correctly he was useless for his 1st 5 seasons- we need to be patient with our young players…

Wouldn't say he was useless. He was a damaging half forward that just didn't have the tank to be a full time mid the Demons drafted him to be (the early ACL didn't help).

Once he had the aerobic capacity to go with his insane explosive strength and power in 2020 he took over the comp as one of the best in the business.

 

[SSSSSS]

Nah, it was his fourth season (2005) when he really took off.

Was still battling OP when he was 20. Once he was fit he showed the footy world why we took him at #1.

Rest was history.

 

[TheFourPillars]

dude, have you seen North's midfield kids ? they're the same age. Go watch how they played today!

Were they playing Melbourne?

 

[TheFourPillars]

Wouldn't say he was useless. He was a damaging half forward that just didn't have the tank to be a full time mid the Demons drafted him to be (the early ACL didn't help).

Once he had the aerobic capacity to go with his insane explosive strength and power in 2020 he took over the comp as one of the best in the business.

Damaging half forward at casey in fact there were murmurings about him being traded. Lucky for melbourne they didnt and if u go back to the game day threads u will find the same impatience

 

[SSSSSS]

Were they playing Melbourne?

Better yet watch how they played vs GWS (another team looking like a top 4 side in 2024).

They got smashed for contested possessions by 30 and the overall disposal count by 60.

Surprise surprise, good teams beat crap developing teams.

 

[Davo23]

Pretty poor take. a) i can’t remember ever going goalless against port before halftime and b) we’ve had some absolute thrashings over the past 20 years (including the clarko era).. hard to say a 55 point loss to last years semi finalist is the worst of them.

Don’t trust your memory, mate!

It wasn’t just a 55 point loss, it was a game where we weren’t in it from the first minute.

.

 

[Davo-27]

ineffective tackles... triple m stats

Melb 17 - Haw 47
-----------------------------
Centre Clearances 14 - 32 this year, going at 30%
-----------------------------
we've kicked 16 goals all up and given up 13 from stoppages...

we've played a top team in Melb and a mid team in Ess

 

[bindas12]

Better yet watch how they played vs GWS (another team looking like a top 4 side in 2024).

They got smashed for contested possessions by 30 and the overall disposal count by 60.

Surprise surprise, good teams beat crap developing teams.

We can all be very selective about stats. They won clearances against GWS! they are going to start smashing teams soon, we are looking destined for another bottom 4 finish.

 

[Strebi3]

Can we get Geelong thread up?

 

[SSSSSS]

ineffective tackles... triple m stats

Melb 17 - Haw 47
-----------------------------
Centre Clearances 14 - 32 this year, going at 30%
-----------------------------
we've kicked 16 goals all up and given up 13 from stoppages...

Our tackling has been pissweak the last two weeks.

We are playing a bruise free brand of football at the moment. Sickens me.

Was hoping for our mids to respond but they stunk it up again.

 

[killerspud]

Bring back Clarko and Kennett

Thats like saying bring back Nick Ries and nathan lonie

On Pixel 6 Pro using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SSSSSS]

We can all be very selective about stats. They won clearances against GWS! they are going to start smashing teams soon, we are looking destined for another bottom 4 finish.

To be fair they got 4 of those clearances from Xerri winning 4 free kicks in the ruck.

They do have some good top end talent though. Just lack a spread of it. Their flanks/wings/KPP are a bit barren.