Autopsy Round 21, 2024: Positives and Negatives vs Gold Coast

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

I generally always think TK has a decent to pretty good game most weeks. Until I log onto BF and get informed that he is in fact the worst player of all time.

It's a very strange BF take that he sucks.

Its very strange BF believes defensive effort is a issue the Eagles team has but then thinks it doesnt apply to all 22 players...

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I generally always think TK has a decent to pretty good game most weeks. Until I log onto BF and get informed that he is in fact the worst player of all time.

It's a very strange BF take that he sucks.

It’s because he isn’t prepared to step up and impose himself on the game.

Sorry, I’m now being told it’s because he hunts the ball too much.

It’s so clear we’d be miles worse without Kelly, it’s so clear he’d walk into every Best 22 in football, we have so many list problems and talent issues across the team that it’s a waste of server space even thinking about putting Kelly front and centre as an issue.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Its very strange BF believes defensive effort is a issue the Eagles team has but then thinks it doesnt apply to all 22 players...

#3 for Eagles pressure acts, #4 overall (Rowell had the most). So then people will say ah but he only had one tackle.

But last week he was #2 for tackles and people still said he doesn’t work.

It’s an astonishing hill to die on. He worked his tail off last night, and was hassling the footy constantly.

 

[FKASC]

WOW, what a game, where do you even start?

All positives today, no time for negatives after that one.

** TEAM **

• Talk about cracking in. Such a great game to watch, looking forward to a replay today.
• Despite losing the hit-outs 59-29 (-30), we won the clearances 41-36 (+5). We also scored more from stoppages (+10) & centre bounces (+12). Wern't there some people not happy with Shuey as midfield/stoppage coach?
• Just felt like the right blend of youth and experience. Our equal youngest team for a win this season, matching the round 5 win against the Tigers, with an average age of 25.1.
• Had more of the footy, Eagles 373 disposals to Suns 321 (+52) and still managed to win the tackle count 66 to 56 (+10).
• Less inside 50's and less shots on goal than the Suns, shows of some elite efficieny going inside 50, keeping it inside 50 and then executing.

** INDIVIDUAL **

• J.Will straight fire again. Back to back best on ground with age and TOG factored in.
• Reid another solid game that is becoming the standrad of him.
• Ginbey, where ar those people calling for his head? "Can't kick, isn't a natural footballer" jog on, you pelicans. Third best game of his 37 game career, equal best disposals, best disposal efficient of those three 22 disposal games and his most metres gained 400m).
• Welcome back Oscar best game of the year, one we had all been waiting for. Must have heard some BF people calling for him to be traded.
• Yeo, Gov, TK, Darling & Cripps doing what we need from the senior cits.
• Very excited by the games from Johnston, Hall & Dewar. May as well keep them in for the final three.

View attachment 2066975

I like this concept but you might need to tweak the age and TOG formula a little. Darling and McGovern were massive.

It’s nice way to feel good about the youngsters’ contributions though

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Just so I understand it - if you’re not prepared to fight and scrap and claw, you don’t have a role. Digging in and working your ass off defensively is the #1 non-negotiable…

…but also Tom Cole

28

Tom Cole

Age

27

Ht

188cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.0

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

2.7

4star

MG

110.3

2star

D

10.5

3star

K

6.3

3star

HB

4.3

3star

M

3.0

3star

T

2.5

3star

MG

110.3

2star

D

9.8

3star

K

5.6

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

2.4

3star

T

1.8

4star

is a spud who should be dropped forever, and the Eagles are too good for Jack Graham

17

Jack Graham

Age

26

Ht

181cm

Wt

85kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.7

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.8

4star

M

2.1

2star

T

6.3

5star

CL

1.8

4star

D

11.8

3star

K

5.3

2star

HB

6.5

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

1.2

4star

D

14.0

4star

K

6.0

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

7.0

5star

CL

3.2

5star

.

Someone make it make sense, please.

 

[FKASC]

Just like Darling should be paid out of his contract.

Look, no one in their right mind would ever query Darling’s position in the team if he put in that effort every week. Unfortunately he’s just as likely to go missing next week.

This is what happens every time we win, it’s like every senior player’s past crimes are absolved.

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

#3 for Eagles pressure acts, #4 overall (Rowell had the most). So then people will say ah but he only had one tackle.

But last week he was #2 for tackles and people still said he doesn’t work.

It’s an astonishing hill to die on. He worked his tail off last night, and was hassling the footy constantly.

He hunts the ball. How can he not be number 3 for pressure acts when you are always chasing after the football? Macrae is very high up in defensive stats too over the last 3 seasons but most know thats because he is chasing the football and so is in that side of the contest. In reality though Doggies know that despite the stats saying that, Libba is a better team player, defensive player and therefore plays in the midfield ahead of Macrae despite the fact Macrae gets more ball. Its the exact same situation we are dealing with. Kellys issue though is the last part. He doesnt stick tackles and he does not stop his opponents from moving the ball on within that pressure act. Its also a singular pressure act also. He doesnt follow up. Its a one and done scenario

He doesnt make space for others, he isnt blocking and 100% he is not helping Harley Reid get the ball. Do you want 31 possessions from Tim Kelly or do you want someone who helps Harley Reid go from 17 possessions a game to 25?

I know which one I want

 

[FKASC]

Just so I understand it - if you’re not prepared to fight and scrap and claw, you don’t have a role. Digging in and working your ass off defensively is the #1 non-negotiable…

…but also Tom Cole is a spud who should be dropped forever, and the Eagles are too good for Jack Graham.

Someone make it make sense, please.

It’s based on the AFL’s player ratings system, which IIRC is mostly driven by score involvements. So doesn’t help lockdown defenders

 

[Flarn Rarn]

We dropped Darling, told him to focus on defensive pressure, he came back, he played better

I dont see Tim Kelly as someone above that lesson. He needs to be better defensively as well as making space for others. A game in the WAFL so he understands that is important isnt beyond him at all. If you want to set standards, then you cant pick people based on salary or even possession tally.

The entire team needs to do more defensively. Kelly is number 1 on that list

I thought this was another great takeaway from last night that got lost in the excitement of the win. Senior player gets dropped, made to earn his spot back from the WAFL, does so and is all the better for it in the seniors. If they stop tiptoeing around senior players' egos everyone's better for it, including the player who doesn't have to continue to deal with the speculation over their spot.

 

[Byron_Clanger]

Look, no one in their right mind would ever query Darling’s position in the team if he put in that effort every week. Unfortunately he’s just as likely to go missing next week.

This is what happens every time we win, it’s like every senior player’s past crimes are absolved.

Yeah...Darling's last decent game was in literally our last win over 2 months ago. Some people need to pull back on the DARLING'S NOT FINISHED YET SO APOLOGISE TO HIM stuff. And you're right, watch him be a non factor in our last three games.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Loved our clearance work last night. Another example of hitouts meaning very little

 

[HoneyBadger35]

He hunts the ball. How can he not be number 3 for pressure acts when you are always chasing after the football? Its a bit like when people say Jack Williams isnt a good forward but ignore the fact he doesnt get as many times to jump at the ball as other forwards cos of a lack of opportunity. Kellys issue though is the last part. He doesnt stick tackles and he does not stop his opponents from moving the ball on within that pressure act. Its also a singular pressure act also. He doesnt follow up. Its a one and done scenario

He doesnt make space for others, he isnt blocking and 100% he is not helping Harley Reid get the ball. Do you want 31 possessions from Tim Kelly or do you want someone who helps Harley Reid go from 17 possessions a game to 25?

I know which one I want

Right, but half the time the criticism is that he doesn’t impose himself on the game and “why is it our teenager’s job to get the footy and drag us over the line when Kelly is getting paid such and such”.

So then he has games where he racks it up, involves himself in everything, and it’s suddenly “no not like that!”.

Whether you think this version of TK is the optimal version of himself (it isn’t) or for the team (might not be but I think out of list depth necessity it currently is, you’d like to see the role changed now), the pretty simple question is - do you think we’re better with Tim Kelly in the side?

Last night’s version, last week’s version, not what I think we both agree is the optimal/ideal version of a HFF/outside rotation type. Is having him in a good thing or bad thing?

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

Just so I understand it - if you’re not prepared to fight and scrap and claw, you don’t have a role. Digging in and working your ass off defensively is the #1 non-negotiable…

…but also Tom Cole is a spud who should be dropped forever, and the Eagles are too good for Jack Graham.

Someone make it make sense, please.

Just so I understand all 3 of Kelly/Yeo/Reid should try win the clearance at the same time and in unison ? You dont see that as a issue and well not what most of the other clubs do? Do you think James Rowbottom is running around trying to win the ball ahead of Warner and Heeney? Do you think Dunkley is running around trying to burst forward and winning the ball ahead of Neale/McCluggage and the like? Nope. They play to a system not a game of chase the football

We need to do the same and stop trying to reinvent the wheel with 3 ball hunting midfielders and 5 tall forwards

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I thought this was another great takeaway from last night that got lost in the excitement of the win. Senior player gets dropped, made to earn his spot back from the WAFL, does so and is all the better for it in the seniors. If they stop tiptoeing around senior players' egos everyone's better for it, including the player who doesn't have to continue to deal with the speculation over their spot.

I don’t disagree with the concept but let’s not forget he threw out an absolutely invisible performance last week on the back of being dropped, and then was retained this week in a decision that unanimously pissed off the entire board.

Wasn’t like he came back from the WAFL yesterday with a new fire in his belly, he was backed in from shocking AFL form as an already surprise inclusion.

 

[Smotie2]

Its very strange BF believes defensive effort is a issue the Eagles team has but then thinks it doesnt apply to all 22 players...

Well it is the same place that believed that Priddis role wasn't tackling and chasing....

 

[wce4premiership]

Dom Sheed is not a replacement for TK.

TK dominates groundball gets for our team and is cleaner than anyone at quick pick ups in congestion.

Disagree that his kicking is the same as Yeo, Yeo had a few very good and damaging kicks last night (although he is capable of average as well) and can kick it 60 when he needs to.

TKs kicking on fast breaks or inside 50 isn't good and it's a mixture of the option taken as much as it is his execution, his technique itself looks fine except a slight tendency to favour bullet kicks.

TK is an overall plus and I don't think it's close either. Was a good game this week and was a few weeks back when everyone bagged him as well.

I do think TK could be used up forward more in general but his play inside 50 recently hasn't been overly creative and it usually results in him getting smothered trying to kick a miracle goal.

 

[Smotie2]

I don’t disagree with the concept but let’s not forget he threw out an absolutely invisible performance last week on the back of being dropped, and then was retained this week in a decision that unanimously pissed off the entire board.

Wasn’t like he came back from the WAFL yesterday with a new fire in his belly, he was backed in from shocking AFL form as an already surprise inclusion.

He did get dropped though which sent the message to his brain...perform or you're out.
Something simmo never did.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

Just so I understand all 3 of Kelly/Yeo/Reid should try win the clearance at the same time and in unison ? You dont see that as a issue and well not what most of the other clubs do? Do you think James Rowbottom is running around trying to win the ball ahead of Warner and Heeney? Do you think Dunkley is running around trying to burst forward and winning the ball ahead of Neale/McCluggage and the like? Nope. They play to a system not a game of chase the football

We need to do the same and stop trying to reinvent the wheel with 3 ball hunting midfielders and 5 tall forwards

So then how are we, as the 16th placed reigning wooden spooners, somehow far too good for a defence first, sacrifice his own game for the system mid as a free agent? Seems like that’s exactly the type of player who would open up HFF minutes for Kelly and clear space for Yeo and Reid in this ideal balanced world.

 

[HoneyBadger35]

He did get dropped though which sent the message to his brain...perform or you're out.
Something simmo never did.

Right but then he didn’t perform against Freo and was retained anyway. Look at the changes thread, we all hated him getting backed in on the back of last week.

I get the concept but it’s a bit revisionist that all we needed to do was drop Jack Darling so that a month later (and on the back of surviving a career worst day at AFL level last week) he’d turn back the clock and rip things up.

 

[stallon]

So then how are we, as the 16th placed reigning wooden spooners, somehow far too good for a defence first, sacrifice his own game for the system mid as a free agent? Seems like that’s exactly the type of player who would open up HFF minutes for Kelly and clear space for Yeo and Reid in this ideal balanced world.

I think you two are agreeing here

 

[GoEaglesGoSGIO]

So then how are we, as the 16th placed reigning wooden spooners, somehow far too good for a defence first, sacrifice his own game for the system mid as a free agent? Seems like that’s exactly the type of player who would open up HFF minutes for Kelly and clear space for Yeo and Reid in this ideal balanced world.

We are not too good for that style of footballer. We just have that style of footballer siting infront of us waiting to take on that responsibility. Clay Hall has 3 more years to go on his contract and I do believe he deserves a chance to play. I also believe Tim Kelly is smart enough or capable enough to adjust his game to what im suggesting also and atleast try to change in this manner

Im also certain that Jack Graham can contribute in 2025 but by 2026, Hall should be playing his role. I dont believe in giving 3 year contracts to 1 year options. A simple equation that way

 

[kranky al]

Ok fess up. Who slipped an eccy into CCs cuppa?

In the 90’s me and my bro got my old boy into a coupla good lobbers and took him to a drum n bass gig. Sitting in the back seat with his head laid back between the speakers listening to grooveriders mysteries of funk going - I get it now wow oh my god this is incredible!!

Then he start telling us how much he loves us - over and over - me and my bro look at each other and chortle….. yeah righteo dad - Settle down there turbo!!!

CC pill monkey confirmed!!

 

[HoneyBadger35]

I think you two are agreeing here

You’d think so but I reckon it’s closer to one of these:

 

[Tyberious Funk]

For people bitching about Tim Kelly

11

Tim Kelly

Age

30

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

23.6

5star

K

13.5

5star

HB

10.1

5star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

CL

4.9

5star

D

19.9

5star

K

12.3

5star

HB

7.6

4star

M

3.1

3star

T

4.7

5star

CL

3.6

4star

D

21.6

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.2

5star

M

2.8

3star

T

3.8

5star

CL

3.8

5star

...

He's 30 years old. He's not going to be part of our next premiership tilt. As soon as we have some better prospects in the midfield, he suspect he'll start to transition out of the role.

 

[wce4premiership]

Yeah...Darling's last decent game was in literally our last win over 2 months ago. Some people need to pull back on the DARLING'S NOT FINISHED YET SO APOLOGISE TO HIM stuff. And you're right, watch him be a non factor in our last three games.

Darling would be fine if we had +50 disposals on our opposition every week as well as winning the clearances.

He won't play well when we lack energy and kick long down the line, have nobody to crumb and let the ball rebound away. Rinse and repeat.

I still don't know if Darling suits the team long term purely because of the height/mobility of our team as a whole but when there's free flowing transition play he will generally know where to be and get on the end of it a lot.