Unofficial Preview Sack Hinkley 2: Septic Portaloo

[Enviable Tradition]

People still trying to argue/reason with Janus theories is as mental as Hinkley still being an AFL coach.

I've long given up on trying to reason with him.

I just poke holes in his flimsy arguments for the fun of it now.

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[Enviable Tradition]

You can look through my posting history on the subject - I’m pretty consistent with blaming the shocking depth in our list from 2013-2016 on Gold Coast and GWS being introduced when we were at our lowest as being the number one reason for our failure. Everything was great in 2014 when we had no injuries, but as soon as we did, we struggled massively.

We’ve built up our list over the space of 6 years. There’s a reason why now other clubs are coming after our players when previously we couldn’t even get a fourth round pick for the likes of Ben Newton, Andrew Moore or John Butcher.

Could we have won the flag during that time? Sure. But it would have required a commitment and connection that the playing group never displayed since 2015 until this year.

I think we lost our way for a long time but we finally got back on track this year.



How do you figure? His presence dropped a team that finished top four to 9th, whereas we replaced him with kids and still finished in the same position.

Wait until next year when Mitchell gets back and takes his spot in the midfield - he’ll be super sooky.

Your posting is anything but consistent.

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[PAFC66]

This is a lot of great list management discussion. But this is the Ken Hinkley thread.

Putting aside finances and contracts, is Ken Hinkley the right coach for 2020 and to take us forward? If so, why?

What does Ken Hinkley do well as a coach and what are his weaknesses?

He won't answer that. He can't bullshit around closed questions.

 

[Janus]

Your posting is anything but consistent.

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Oh really? From September 2017, when Ken was re-signed:

"It's not Ken's fault that we didn't have a decent list profile when he got here. He's been trying to rectify that over five years, and it takes time. It's why we invested heavily into last year's draft - to fast track the development of Powell-Pepper, Drew, Marshall and Atley so that we could still challenge for a flag with Ryder, Boak and Robbie Gray.

That's why we play with a small forward line. It's nothing to do with having an aversion to talls. It has to do with an aversion to talls that don't want to apply any sort of defensive pressure."

From August 2016:

"He believed Cripps and Parker when they said this list was good enough to win a flag when he first came to the club. Because of this, he believed that it was merely lack of resources that was the issue with how we were performing. Got massively ahead of himself with the game style because although it's a good one (and it is, no matter what anyone says), our players don't have the mental fortitude necessary to execute basic skills under pressure - another group that got ahead of themselves. In 2013/14, we simply weren't put under that pressure - have a look at the results. Our fitness advantage over opposition sides meant that we could run over the top of them as long as we were close. In 2015/16, we were never allowed to get close enough because everyone looked at us and said 'Well, if they can train running harder, that means we must be able to as well'.

So we are literally back to 2012 as if 2013/14 never happened. Like the Hawthorn game of 2015, they were glimpses of the future...IF we make the right list management decisions."

Looks pretty consistent to me

 

[sobrave]

we're shit because venus is in retrograde

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Oh really? From September 2017, when Ken was re-signed:

"It's not Ken's fault that we didn't have a decent list profile when he got here. He's been trying to rectify that over five years, and it takes time. It's why we invested heavily into last year's draft - to fast track the development of Powell-Pepper, Drew, Marshall and Atley so that we could still challenge for a flag with Ryder, Boak and Robbie Gray.

That's why we play with a small forward line. It's nothing to do with having an aversion to talls. It has to do with an aversion to talls that don't want to apply any sort of defensive pressure."

From August 2016:

"He believed Cripps and Parker when they said this list was good enough to win a flag when he first came to the club. Because of this, he believed that it was merely lack of resources that was the issue with how we were performing. Got massively ahead of himself with the game style because although it's a good one (and it is, no matter what anyone says), our players don't have the mental fortitude necessary to execute basic skills under pressure - another group that got ahead of themselves. In 2013/14, we simply weren't put under that pressure - have a look at the results. Our fitness advantage over opposition sides meant that we could run over the top of them as long as we were close. In 2015/16, we were never allowed to get close enough because everyone looked at us and said 'Well, if they can train running harder, that means we must be able to as well'.

So we are literally back to 2012 as if 2013/14 never happened. Like the Hawthorn game of 2015, they were glimpses of the future...IF we make the right list management decisions."

Looks pretty consistent to me

Yeah yo be fair you are right.

You have been consistent in saying "it's not Ken's fault".

It is just the reasons that have changed a thousand times.

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[Tredrea_Wanganeen_Gray]

People still trying to argue/reason with Janus theories is as mental as Hinkley still being an AFL coach.

It is such a **** read.

 

[Pedro59]

You have a keen eye.

Haha so does she

 

[Janus]

This is a lot of great list management discussion. But this is the Ken Hinkley thread.

Putting aside finances and contracts, is Ken Hinkley the right coach for 2020 and to take us forward? If so, why?

What does Ken Hinkley do well as a coach and what are his weaknesses?

You want me to do a review of the Port Adelaide football department without knowing the inner workings of it, based purely on the production of the playing list?

Adelaide is paying people a lot of money to come up with those sort of answers.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You want me to do a review of the Port Adelaide football department without knowing the inner workings of it, based purely on the production of the playing list?

Adelaide is paying people a lot of money to come up with those sort of answers.

You've already done so, I just want your findings.

Obviously the first and most significant finding was that Ken is an owl.

I want to know the secondary finding regarding Ken's strengths and weaknesses as a coach and his suitability to remain in the job.

Or is 1/9/19 the date where Janus publicly refuses to endorse Ken Hinkley?

 

[GremioPower]

The issue with Janus' posts (most of them) is that in isolation they may make sense, but combined over time they don't hold water. Our year was 2017, then 2018, then 2019. Now, we will all see it in 2020.

There is always a "but" to justify why we have fallen short. There will always be. That's is not our problem. The problem with our club is that those in charge are NEVER responsible for those "buts".

The unwillingness to take responsibility upon our shortcomings bothers me big time. They should be taking the blows, even for the things they aren't responsible. However, all we see is them trying to dodge them: "don't look at me". If not at them, at whom should we look then?

We are lead by a bunch of cowards. That's why it will never work.

 

[Us against the rest]

It's strange how the players supposedly love Ken, considering he puts full blame on the players when things go wrong.

If Hinkley admitted fault when he ****s up he would get more respect from supporters.

Why can't he just say I got selections wrong, or we had many inside 50s but my forward line structures didn't allow us to kick enough goals.

It's the arrogance of the man, the same with the co-captains disaster. When a person can't admit when they have made mistakes, they lose respect imo.

Sack Ken.

 

[Janus]

Yeah yo be fair you are right.

You have been consistent in saying "it's not Ken's fault".

It is just the reasons that have changed a thousand times.

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Nah, I've been pretty consistent in blaming injuries and poor drafting and development from the late Choco/Primus era which resulted in a lack of depth that never put pressure on the senior players to perform.

You've already done so, I just want your findings.

Obviously the first and most significant finding was that Ken is an owl.

I want to know the secondary finding regarding Ken's strengths and weaknesses as a coach and his suitability to remain in the job.

Or is 1/9/19 the date where Janus publicly refuses to endorse Ken Hinkley?

Fine.

1. Ability to develop players: Since arriving at the club, Hinkley has taken what would be considered shitty late round draft picks and turned them into solid players that hold significantly more value. Byrne-Jones, Amon, Houston, Howard, Frampton etc are worth more now than they were when we drafted them.

2. Players that were best 22 have retained value: Wingard was drafted with a top ten pick - he was traded for the equivalent of two first round picks in a strong draft. Polec was brought in with an early second round pick - he was traded with Pittard and Pick 48 for Pick 11.

3. Ability to sacrifice short-term success which would ensure his survival for long-term goals: Playing Marshall for every game would have brought endorsement from this forum, but it would not have been good for his development as a key forward. The Marshall that was seen at the end of the year competing and halving contests was not the Marshall that was seen at the start of the year...and that comes down to setting a bar which he needs to reach. Letting him play in the SANFL and work on his craft increased his confidence.

4. Most players we want to retain don’t leave: This year, Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Marshall, Garner, Patmore, Farrell and Bonner have all signed extensions. There’s others that I’ve missed. This is an endorsement of the environment that these players are in - when an environment is poor, and the coach doesn’t care, you get players consistently wanting to leave or having to be paid massive overs to stay (look at Brisbane under Voss/Leppitsch and Gold Coast, Fremantle and GWS for proof).

5. Game style to beat the top teams: In most games, Port has shown that their methodology stacks up under scrutiny when all players are in form. When the players are keeping width and getting to the secondary contest and ground ball, it looks fantastic. Holes are created when players don’t do their job or trust their teammates to do their job - Tom Jonas said this was the issue against North.

There you go, there’s five reasons.

 

[Janus]

As for weaknesses - I’d say loyalty to players is a big one.

 

[Shazza_]

how does hinkley still have a job ?

 

[Don_Kay]

1. Ability to develop players: Since arriving at the club, Hinkley has taken what would be considered s**tty late round draft picks and turned them into solid players that hold significantly more value. Byrne-Jones, Amon, Houston, Howard, Frampton etc are worth more now than they were when we drafted them.

This isn't a bad point. I'd argue it's cancelled out by the ability to develop top end talent.

 

[ZeroGlass]

how does hinkley still have a job ?

Saturn is still ascending, wait for it's return and the owls will go hoot.

 

[Schulzenfest]

1. Ability to develop players: Since arriving at the club, Hinkley has taken what would be considered s**tty late round draft picks and turned them into solid players that hold significantly more value. Byrne-Jones, Amon, Houston, Howard, Frampton etc are worth more now than they were when we drafted them.

He has an ability to develop okay players into good players. He has no ability to develop good players into great players. See Chad Wingard, Ollie Wines, Sam Powell-Pepper. That's why we're midtable and have been for all 7 years of his tenure.

2. Players that were best 22 have retained value: Wingard was drafted with a top ten pick - he was traded for the equivalent of two first round picks in a strong draft. Polec was brought in with an early second round pick - he was traded with Pittard and Pick 48 for Pick 11.

Okay, now do Lobbe, O'Shea, Young, Pittard, Hombsch ...

Ability to sacrifice short-term success which would ensure his survival for long-term goals: Playing Marshall for every game would have brought endorsement from this forum, but it would not have been good for his development as a key forward. The Marshall that was seen at the end of the year competing and halving contests was not the Marshall that was seen at the start of the year...and that comes down to setting a bar which he needs to reach. Letting him play in the SANFL and work on his craft increased his confidence.

What 'success' has he sacrificed exactly? You're trying to argue that our list isn't currently good enough to achieve any success, but simultaneously arguing that Hinkley is sacrificing short-term success. Which is it? And what part of playing Ryder ahead of Ladhams all year, Broadbent ahead of Garner all year, S. Gray ahead of Farrell all year etc constitutes sacrificing short term goals and looking ahead to the future?

Most players we want to retain don’t leave: This year, Rozee, Butters, Duursma, Marshall, Garner, Patmore, Farrell and Bonner have all signed extensions.

In the last three seasons alone we've lost Impey, Trengove, Austin, Lobbe, Young, Ah Chee, Wingard, Polec, Pittard, Hombsch, Ryder*, S. Gray*, and Amon*. Unconfirmed rumours of Ollie, Lycett and SPP being unhappy are also floating around. If player retention is Hinkley's 'strength' then I'd hate to see his weaknesses.

 

[Janus]

He has an ability to develop okay players into good players. He has no ability to develop good players into great players. See Chad Wingard, Ollie Wines, Sam Powell-Pepper. That's why we're midtable and have been for all 7 years of his tenure.

If Wines is traded this year he'll fetch two first round draft picks from Carlton. And Powell-Pepper has been here for all of three years. People wanted to write off Amon last year for a packet of chips. You never know when it's going to turn around.

Okay, now do Lobbe, O'Shea, Young, Pittard, Hombsch ...

None of these players were drafted when Hinkley was at the club. Maybe if they were things would be different. They were a means to an end.

What 'success' has he sacrificed exactly? You're trying to argue that our list isn't currently good enough to achieve any success, but simultaneously arguing that Hinkley is sacrificing short-term success. Which is it? And what part of playing Ryder ahead of Ladhams all year, Broadbent ahead of Garner all year, S. Gray ahead of Farrell all year etc constitutes sacrificing short term goals and looking ahead to the future?

Short-term success = playing the kids like Garner and Farrell when they have limitations in their game to hide behind the idea that we are a young side vs not repeating the same mistakes made in the past and actually holding them to a higher standard than the players who have gotten games in the past.

If we want to become an elite team, it comes from holding the young players to elite standards in order to get a game. It's not about being fair, it's about being better.

In the last three seasons alone we've lost Impey, Trengove, Austin, Lobbe, Young, Ah Chee, Wingard, Polec, Pittard, Hombsch, Ryder*, S. Gray*, and Amon*. Unconfirmed rumours of Ollie, Lycett and SPP being unhappy are also floating around. If player retention is Hinkley's 'strength' then I'd hate to see his weaknesses.

Most players we want to retain. Of all those players, only Impey would be one we really wanted to retain, and he left for personal reasons.

 

[Portology]

Reminder: some think that making progress from... this ... is an actual reason not to #sackhinkley.

 

[Butters Made Me Do It]

He has an ability to develop okay players into good players. He has no ability to develop good players into great players. See Chad Wingard, Ollie Wines, Sam Powell-Pepper. That's why we're midtable and have been for all 7 years of his tenure.

Your example kinda refutes your opening sentence, as Chad and Ollie were both highly rated players coming in, and to a lesser extent (and lesser end result) so was SPP.

These guys came in and developed to the point that they would‘ve got to in a team with the worst development system in the league

 

[malcheski]

Reminder: some think that making progress from... this ... is an actual reason not to #sackhinkley.

View attachment 738661

Yet that particular side still made a grand final (more than Hinkley has done)

 

[Ilias M]

Dear Members and Supporters

Time never stands still at Port Adelaide.

While the Maggies did us proud on the weekend to progress through to the second-semi final this Sunday, we are already projecting forward to 2020.

In fact, we have been for several months.

And while the Maggies sole focus remains on the big prize, 2020 starts now for the club in so many ways.

I alluded to greater engagement with you, our members and supporters, in my CEO note a few weeks ago.

I am pleased to confirm that putting you first in 2020 starts with a MEMBERSHIP PRICE FREEZE FOR OUR 150th ANNIVERSARY YEAR.

We know taking the family to the footy is becoming increasingly expensive and we recognize our members have been doing much of the heavy lifting in recent years, but we are determined that no one in the Port Adelaide community should miss out on our 150thanniversary.

Our members and supporters are the foundation upon which our club is built.

Next year is not just a celebration of our club, but a celebration of our people and you’ll be at the forefront of everything we do in 2020.

The price freeze on membership is the first step.

At the same time, we will increase the value of our membership packs, with the inclusion of some fantastic personalised member options plus the addition of a 150th year commemorative scarf for all members.

2020 will be a moment where we reset, unite and push forward with a clear vision for the next exciting chapter of Port Adelaide.

In the meantime, let’s get out to support the Maggies again this Sunday as we take on the old enemy Glenelg in a high stakes final – the winner straight through to the Grand Final in a fortnight.

Bring it on!

KT

 

[elsler]

fake letter doesn't sign off with see you at the footy

 

[Work Hardery]

Wow, Nine News had Tom Rehn doing a live cross from Alberton so he could reveal a 'big present' to Port fans. The present? Announcing the price freeze of membership costs for 2020. We have the media in our back pocket these days.