Unofficial Preview Sack Hinkley 2: Septic Portaloo

[Marat]

I am really finding it difficult to fathom this Janus person. I’ve come to,the conclusion that Janus is either a pseudo-academic who failed psychology , a total computer nerd, or just an argumentative person who always wants to be right.Whatever it’s always amusing to read the next chapter and verse of the life and times of PAFC according to Janus.

There is something that we know about Janus that Janus doesn’t know about himself - what? - that he’s not the Messiah, he’s just a naughty boy!

 

[Work Hardery]

Rockliff only needs to play for another two years to pass Trevor Barker for most games played without playing finals.
Hinkley has two years left on his contract

 

[JUSTWORK]

Rockliff only needs to play for another two years to pass Trevor Barker for most games played without playing finals.
Hinkley has two years left on his contract

Poor rocky. Only way Hinkley sees his last year is if we play finals this year.

 

[El_Scorcho]

You must be of the opinion that I consider the season to be a success. It wasn't.

I do believe very strongly in the concept of words having power and thoughts creating reality, which is why I'm always positive of success.

*snip*

No, i'm well aware you would have considered this season a failure. I actually believe you're pretty consistent in your points of view. Ultimately I just wanted you to stop talking about ancient Mayan personality types and start talking about football in a more relevant and tangible way.

I'm also really positive about the potential of this list, which is probably why I get so frustrated with our performances. We smacked West Coast and Geelong off the park this season. We really should have beaten Brisbane earlier in the season. There's every chance one of the sides we easily accounted for wins a flag. Why did we then finish 10th, given we have better depth than we've ever had?

I'd suggest that the kinds of mistakes you listed in this post very reminiscent of issues we had in the previous 6 seasons. Sticking with the wrong sort of player in important positions when better options are available. Leaving clearly out of form players in the team too long. Dropping other players after one down week. Dropping players to send a message then immediately bringing them back in when they haven't had a chance to remedy their issue.

I totally agree with your argument that an inconsistent selection policy breeds inconsistency with the team for a variety of reasons.

What has gotten me to this point is, these were also problems in 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014 and 2013. I definitely believe these sorts of issues cost us top 4 spots in 2014 and 2017, at the very least, and probably finals spots every other year. Yes, there were and are other issues with the team, but a good team is resilient and will be goal oriented enough to deal with minor issues without letting them torpedo a season.

If you put the contract and financial issues aside, are we best served by having Ken Hinkley as our head coach over the myriad of other options available to us?

 

[MotlopRules]

Janus' posts are all fun and games until you see him on the news running naked down the street and proclaiming himself the living Jesus.

 

[Amarula]

Rockliff only needs to play for another two years to pass Trevor Barker for most games played without playing finals.
Hinkley has two years left on his contract

Watts must be right up there too. And he must surely be the No.1 draft pick who's played most games without finals.

 

[RossFC]

Port, Nord and Sturt fans unite to boo Hinkley on the big screen today.

 

[Janus]

No, i'm well aware you would have considered this season a failure. I actually believe you're pretty consistent in your points of view. Ultimately I just wanted you to stop talking about ancient Mayan personality types and start talking about football in a more relevant and tangible way.

I'm also really positive about the potential of this list, which is probably why I get so frustrated with our performances. We smacked West Coast and Geelong off the park this season. We really should have beaten Brisbane earlier in the season. There's every chance one of the sides we easily accounted for wins a flag. Why did we then finish 10th, given we have better depth than we've ever had?

I'd suggest that the kinds of mistakes you listed in this post very reminiscent of issues we had in the previous 6 seasons. Sticking with the wrong sort of player in important positions when better options are available. Leaving clearly out of form players in the team too long. Dropping other players after one down week. Dropping players to send a message then immediately bringing them back in when they haven't had a chance to remedy their issue.

I totally agree with your argument that an inconsistent selection policy breeds inconsistency with the team for a variety of reasons.

What has gotten me to this point is, these were also problems in 2018, 2017, 2016, 2015, 2014 and 2013. I definitely believe these sorts of issues cost us top 4 spots in 2014 and 2017, at the very least, and probably finals spots every other year. Yes, there were and are other issues with the team, but a good team is resilient and will be goal oriented enough to deal with minor issues without letting them torpedo a season.

If you put the contract and financial issues aside, are we best served by having Ken Hinkley as our head coach over the myriad of other options available to us?

Let's put it this way. Of the four clubs that have sacked coaches this year, two have appointed an internal caretaker. That's how dire the coaching ranks are. People say to put Schofield in because he was successful with Subiaco, but the last coach of Subiaco was successful as well due to their advantages of attracting high level talent to their club. And he's shown nothing as a midfield coach to make me think he's some savant. I think he's got the right idea and he probably will be a head coach one day, but he's not a student of the game like Nathan Buckley was.

To be a successful anything requires imagination and risk that is tempered by system and stability. Making top four isn't the end goal. At some point, you have to ask yourself whether what you are doing is not just going to win a flag, but generate sustained, repeatable success.

When things don't go the way we want them to, we always fall back on the word 'no' because it's something that conveys the most primal of power. We don't know what we want, but we know we don't want that. But no isn't going to win us a flag.

Actually supporting the path that the club is going down, even if you might not understand it at the moment because we don't have all the relevant information of what we are actually looking for from players, will.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Let's put it this way. Of the four clubs that have sacked coaches this year, two have appointed an internal caretaker. That's how dire the coaching ranks are. People say to put Schofield in because he was successful with Subiaco, but the last coach of Subiaco was successful as well due to their advantages of attracting high level talent to their club. And he's shown nothing as a midfield coach to make me think he's some savant. I think he's got the right idea and he probably will be a head coach one day, but he's not a student of the game like Nathan Buckley was.

To be a successful anything requires imagination and risk that is tempered by system and stability. Making top four isn't the end goal. At some point, you have to ask yourself whether what you are doing is not just going to win a flag, but generate sustained, repeatable success.

When things don't go the way we want them to, we always fall back on the word 'no' because it's something that conveys the most primal of power. We don't know what we want, but we know we don't want that. But no isn't going to win us a flag.

Actually supporting the path that the club is going down, even if you might not understand it at the moment because we don't have all the relevant information of what we are actually looking for from players, will.

I'd argue that those 2 clubs have appointed that internal caretaker because they had a spike in performances with a fresh voice at the top and made a short sighted decision. There are always plenty of coaches going around, and there really isn't a reliable indicator of what will turn a good assistant into a good head coach at this point.

I fully understand the path the club is going down. If Ken Hinkley's contract was up, he'd be gone, because performances dictate that he'd be gone.

This idea of sustained, repeatable success is a myth. Groups of players come and go. If you're in a really good spot, you might have a genuinely amazing group of players who can keep you at the top for an extended period.

Good clubs will take better advantage of the times their list is primed to win a premiership. Average clubs wont. Bad clubs will go through generations of players never looking like they can get near a flag.

Belief is important, but belief doesn't just magically exist out of thin air. Not from the management, not from the coaches, not from the players, not from the fans. Belief comes from having a reliable, executable plan that everyone trusts and gets behind. We haven't had that in the Hinkley era since 2014. The reason this club doesn't have belief at any level, is because we've been in a state of flux for the past 5 years, chopping and changing our goals, our gameplan and how we deal with personnel on a regular basis. In the 2nd half of 2019, we repeatedly significantly changed our forward setup, both structure and players. That isn't the sign of a coaching group who believes in what it's doing. Not 7 years into the tenure of the head coach.

When things don't go the way we want them to, we don't say 'no', we step back and assess the why. Why did we fail? Which decisions were successful, and which decisions cost us? Are we moving in the right direction, or are we repeatedly making the same mistakes?

This is the key point if you'd like to achieve sustained success. Accountability. Are people doing their jobs? Are people fully aware of what is expected of them? If people don't do what is expected of them, what are the consequences of that? Accountability builds performance and builds trust, which leads to belief.

So i'll ask again, if you put the contract and financial issues aside, are we best served by having Ken Hinkley as our head coach over the myriad of other options available to us?

 

[Janus]

"I fully understand the path the club is going down. If Ken Hinkley's contract was up, he'd be gone, because performances dictate that he'd be gone."

Says who?

 

[El_Scorcho]

"I fully understand the path the club is going down. If Ken Hinkley's contract was up, he'd be gone, because performances dictate that he'd be gone."

Says who?

Says results.

It's a results based business. We can talk all we like about behaviours and personality types, but you aren't measured on those things. You put behaviours in place to achieve results. If you aren't acheiving results, either the behaviours you're fostering aren't the right behaviours, or you aren't able to foster them effectively.

Ken Hinkley is measured on 1 final in 5 years. Good clubs hold people accountable for failing to do their job.

 

[Cam1870]

Port, Nord and Sturt fans unite to boo Hinkley on the big screen today.

#nevertearusapart

 

[1954]

As has already been pointed out by a number of us, tonight's first half by the Maggies was classic Hinkley ball. where multiple forward 50 entries are continually wasted by high kicks to a pack, and all that does is keep the oppo in the game, plus it is another of the major reasons why the Power can't win the close ones because the players are physically and mentally f***** from all that burnt energy.

 

[StrappingTape]

"I fully understand the path the club is going down. If Ken Hinkley's contract was up, he'd be gone, because performances dictate that he'd be gone."

Says who?

Lol a Janus troll

 

[Janus]

Says results.

It's a results based business. We can talk all we like about behaviours and personality types, but you aren't measured on those things. You put behaviours in place to achieve results. If you aren't acheiving results, either the behaviours you're fostering aren't the right behaviours, or you aren't able to foster them effectively.

Ken Hinkley is measured on 1 final in 5 years. Good clubs hold people accountable for failing to do their job.

It's a results based business if your thinking is short-term.

You ask me questions. Let me ask you one:

Seven years ago, Port Adelaide was bottom four two years in a row, and hadn't made finals in five years. So pretty much the position that Gold Coast finds themselves in today. Do you believe that Gold Coast will be top four within the next seven years? Will Carlton? Will Sydney?

The way I see it, there are only two options you can have:

a) You believe that in 2011/12 we didn't actually deserve to be bottom four and it was simply poor coaching by a coach that didn't have many resources, and then in 2013/14 we saw a rapid improvement of the list because of Richardson/Walsh/Burgess...only to fail to ascend the mountain because Hinkley is a shit coach....or

b) You believe that we were genuinely shit in 2011/12 and that we deserved to be bottom four (but probably not as bad as we were), that Primus really was a dud and the improvement in 2013/14 was just a natural improvement from players actually having someone who understood the game...and we failed to ascend the mountain because the depth of our list wasn't capable of covering for injuries/suspensions or putting selection pressure on the best 22.

I've always thought our list was good enough to jag a flag as long as our best 22 stayed on the park, the way that Brisbane's best 22 has played pretty much the entire year, and how Adelaide's best 22 played the entire year in 2017. However, a successful program doesn't rely on best case scenarios.

I don't want one season of relative success and then fall down the ladder again. I want consistent and constant top four and finals appearances. And the only way to achieve that is with a better list...and unfortunately in this league, the only way to get a better list is to either convince players you have a good short term future by trading out your long term future (draft picks), paying them overs to join your club (free agency) or either trading out star players or finishing low enough to acquire elite talent (draft picks).

The goal is to constantly improve the list every year by trading out players that hold currency to improve draft position that will help us get better young talent which we can develop.

 

[Duck Farmer]

It's a results based business if your thinking is short-term.

You ask me questions. Let me ask you one:

Seven years ago, Port Adelaide was bottom four two years in a row, and hadn't made finals in five years. So pretty much the position that Gold Coast finds themselves in today. Do you believe that Gold Coast will be top four within the next seven years? Will Carlton? Will Sydney?

The way I see it, there are only two options you can have:

a) You believe that in 2011/12 we didn't actually deserve to be bottom four and it was simply poor coaching by a coach that didn't have many resources, and then in 2013/14 we saw a rapid improvement of the list because of Richardson/Walsh/Burgess...only to fail to ascend the mountain because Hinkley is a s**t coach....or

b) You believe that we were genuinely s**t in 2011/12 and that we deserved to be bottom four (but probably not as bad as we were), that Primus really was a dud and the improvement in 2013/14 was just a natural improvement from players actually having someone who understood the game...and we failed to ascend the mountain because the depth of our list wasn't capable of covering for injuries/suspensions or putting selection pressure on the best 22.

I've always thought our list was good enough to jag a flag as long as our best 22 stayed on the park, the way that Brisbane's best 22 has played pretty much the entire year, and how Adelaide's best 22 played the entire year in 2017. However, a successful program doesn't rely on best case scenarios.

I don't want one season of relative success and then fall down the ladder again. I want consistent and constant top four and finals appearances. And the only way to achieve that is with a better list...and unfortunately in this league, the only way to get a better list is to either convince players you have a good short term future by trading out your long term future (draft picks), paying them overs to join your club (free agency) or either trading out star players or finishing low enough to acquire elite talent (draft picks).

The goal is to constantly improve the list every year by trading out players that hold currency to improve draft position that will help us get better young talent which we can develop.

Don't overthink it. Hinkley is leading us nowhere and is only in a job because we can't afford to sack him.

 

[Grave Danger]

 

[Magus]

When I read Janus and El_Scorcho's back and forth this now comes to mind.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

After seven years of hinkley in charge, we don't have any obvious choices for the leadership group and tom jonas / Ollie wines captains. That is what ken hinkleys culture has developed. Absolutely nada. It doesn't matter how nice your list looks on paper if you have nothing of substance to lead them.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Bottom 4 6 years ago

GWS, Melbourne, St Kilda, Bulldogs

7 years ago

GWS, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Bulldogs

8 years ago

Adelaide, Brisbane, Port, Gold Coast

Of those only GC and St Kilda have peaked lower than Port.



On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Us against the rest]

Sack him already.

 

[Janus]

Bottom 4 6 years ago

GWS, Melbourne, St Kilda, Bulldogs

7 years ago

GWS, Gold Coast, Melbourne, Bulldogs

8 years ago

Adelaide, Brisbane, Port, Gold Coast

Of those only GC and St Kilda have peaked lower than Port.



On SM-G960F using BigFooty.com mobile app

Melbourne hasn’t finished top four and only made a prelim final where they got smashed. There’s nothing to suggest they haven’t gone down the same path as Port circa 2015-2018. They finished bottom four for ages.

If you want to add Brisbane this year, you have to wait until next year to be able to compare Port to them. They also finished bottom four for the past few years.

GWS had an entire draft of concessions and finished bottom four for awhile.

So the difference is - all these clubs finished bottom four in drafts that weren’t compromised. Port finished bottom four when it was.

 

[*PAF]

At least he/she gives their reasoning without getting personal.
This forum has room for explained optimism .

100% agree. Optimism should be explained.

However pessimism is something else all together. Sack him.

 

[Us against the rest]

Melbourne hasn’t finished top four and only made a prelim final where they got smashed. There’s nothing to suggest they haven’t gone down the same path as Port circa 2015-2018. They finished bottom four for ages.

If you want to add Brisbane this year, you have to wait until next year to be able to compare Port to them. They also finished bottom four for the past few years.

GWS had an entire draft of concessions and finished bottom four for awhile.

So the difference is - all these clubs finished bottom four in drafts that weren’t compromised. Port finished bottom four when it was.

We were unlucky when we were at our worst, the introduction of GWS & GC hurt us big time. Wrong end of the ladder at the wrong time.

 

[Us against the rest]

I still believe we have had a list capable of making top four, KT even said it himself. Ken has failed, simple.
Sack his sorry arse.