No Oppo Supporters St.Kilda sack Brett Ratten

[PoppedCorn]

Currently in Paris and on the flight over I paid $3.50 for 20mb of data just so I could ask my girlfriend if we'd signed Ratten yet.

The fact we haven't is ridiculous and I feel the club owes me that $3.50 back.

On Pixel 6 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Brett doesn't work for us anymore

 

[sauce_head]

Currently in Paris and on the flight over I paid $3.50 for 20mb of data just so I could ask my girlfriend if we'd signed Ratten yet.

The fact we haven't is ridiculous and I feel the club owes me that $3.50 back.

On Pixel 6 using BigFooty.com mobile app

Heard this is good:

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[pebblesofsand]

Gave 100mil to the ngv!!! Surely 92mil would have been enough and the rest to saints to clear the debt…do these lads (Jerry Jayco, bassat, Lindsey) not pay our debt because we don’t believe we should pay the afl back be sue of crap stadium deals etc? for them it’s tuppance

Fox never got around to ever publicly thanking Barry Breen, Alan Jeans and a heap of other players for accepting a $0.22 in the $ to help pay off the creditors in 80's in the scheme that he arranged so I wouldn't be holding my breath.

 

[plugger66]

If plugger66 is involved then the announcement would be imminent. And then over and over and over again.





Love ya pluggs.

Only if people argue with me. Remember the only way people can be right is if they agree with my post. Any other opinion is wasting letters on the internet.

 

[Sully111]

I get what you're saying and in a perfect world I would've hoped for the same but the way the industry operates tells me that it was never an actual reality. We were never going to wait until, say, the last month of the season before deciding on his contract. Bassat & Lethers explained what had happened during last weeks presser, in that they agreed to give him some certainty at the mid-point of the season. You'd have to trawl through history to find an out of contract coach that was extended as late as some here wanted Ratten to be.

If they had infact been reviewing his position for a month and it wasn't looking good, they should've told him a lot earlier than 4 days from when he was told he was sacked. I am glad we rectified the mistake and are moving forward but it's still pretty unprofessional and I think criticism about it is warranted.

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't see telling him a month ago that things weren't looking good is the right way to go about it. I'm glad we didn't give him more of a chance to state his case.. we might still be stuck with him. I don't think they should have given him that week to state his case. They were cutting him... just do it without some token gesture that is never going to change anything anyway.

Once they'd extended him, which I believe they did in good faith, there was never a way out of this that wasn't going to be callous.

When it comes to business, I can be a pretty cold bastard. I think sometimes you have to be.

 

[pebblesofsand]

I guess we'll agree to disagree. I don't see telling him a month ago that things weren't looking good is the right way to go about it. I'm glad we didn't give him more of a chance to state his case.. we might still be stuck with him. I don't think they should have given him that week to state his case. They were cutting him... just do it without some token gesture that is never going to change anything anyway.

Once they'd extended him, which I believe they did in good faith, there was never a way out of this that wasn't going to be callous.

When it comes to business, I can be a pretty cold bastard. I think sometimes you have to be.

Here's a funny thing - I agreed with the extension (stability, continuity, clear the air for a run at the finals, sponsorship etc etc) but the way it changed after the bye and I completely agree with the sacking.

And I completely agree with the way they went about the sacking - people seem to forget that the review was initiated well before the turn around in form and was about the transition from Finnis to Lethlean and the different perspectives that may have meant for the club.

The review then clearly uncovers some additional weaknesses at a coaching level and they decide that sacking Ratten was the way go. It looks Bassat gave him every chance to argue his case before he pulled the trigger.

What the media reports - well that's purely up to the media - its was hard but not callous.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Can only go by what we know and that is that 100 days earlier he received a 2 year extension and once the review was announced he was also told his job was safe. We can admit it was poor from the club, it's okay.

I agree with you that it is very unfortunate how it played out with Ratten and that is on the club. He shouldn’t have been re-signed but that was defensible in hindsight but there definitely shouldn’t have been any parameters put on the outcomes of the review beforehand. If it was communicated to him that his job was safe in the review beforehand then we have really messed him around.

I think the 100 days thing is something the media is using to stick the boots in. The extension was clearly agreed on at the bye which is earlier then that and that is why we announced it as soon as we won a game after the bye.

The whole making him beg to keep his job is a load of crap. It’s very respectful to present the findings of the review and get his rebuttal to the findings before making a decision.

 

[Saints43]

Problem is ratts and his mates fell asleep at the wheel
Other teams have improved, we couldn’t decide if Hunter Clark would look musclier with it without a headband….Ross’s influence won’t be at its peak until 2025

I thought that Ratts tried to give the players ownership of the group, to enable them to own their football journey. I can imagine how that would seem attractive to people who own and manage businesses as that's how the most successful ones run.
But perhaps we don't have the right level of maturity at a club or the wrong playing list or support staff... whatever, it wasn't for us.

 

[bergholt]

I thought that Ratts tried to give the players ownership of the group, to enable them to own their football journey. I can imagine how that would seem attractive to people who own and manage businesses as that's how the most successful ones run.
But perhaps we don't have the right level of maturity at a club or the wrong playing list or support staff... whatever, it wasn't for us.

There’s a concept called “task-relevant maturity” which comes from High Output Management by Andy Grove of Intel.

It basically says that anyone joining a new org or going into a new role has low task-relevant maturity because they don’t know the context and what’s expected of them. In that situation they need to be micromanaged to build up their maturity to the point where they can take ownership and need less management. It’s a very effective framework for considering how to manage people.

Clearly you can’t just say to a bunch of 18 year olds - or even probably 25 year olds who don’t know what an elite environment looks like - “take ownership”. They don’t know what they don’t know. You can only effectively give someone ownership once they have enough maturity to take it, before that your responsibility is to coach them up to that maturity.

 

[George]

I agree with you that it is very unfortunate how it played out with Ratten and that is on the club. He shouldn’t have been re-signed but that was defensible in hindsight but there definitely shouldn’t have been any parameters put on the outcomes of the review beforehand. If it was communicated to him that his job was safe in the review beforehand then we have really messed him around.

I think the 100 days thing is something the media is using to stick the boots in. The extension was clearly agreed on at the bye which is earlier then that and that is why we announced it as soon as we won a game after the bye.

The whole making him beg to keep his job is a load of crap. It’s very respectful to present the findings of the review and get his rebuttal to the findings before making a decision.

Agree with most of that

 

[hayes]

The timing may be harsh but ultimately if we’re playing well then his position doesn’t even come into question. Win or lose you can’t have such massive fluctuations in form and then be surprised when the club looks elsewhere. We also started off last year getting blown out every second week. The massive ups and downs were common during his time at Carlton as well.

 

[gringo2011]

I get what your saying about the review. We publicly lied saying it wasn't going to include the head coach and it turned out it did. It is possible the club said that externally to stop the media frenzy and were more transparent internally, ie told Ratts his job was being reviewed. If this isn't the case, then it isn't great.

Regarding the contract extension, initially I thought that was terrible to extend it early and then reneg on it, but Pres explained it well. We extended him to give him confidence and the best chance of success without the contract hanging above his head and can live with the payout knowing they gave Ratts the best chance.

If we take Pres at his word, Ratts would have got notified earlier if we couldn't try and find a different outcome where they could keep Ratts.

I'm just nervous something will go pear shaped until Ross is signed.

It sounds like they are just getting the contracting done. He's probably asking to have a minimum contract to avoid the 6 month axing and some bonuses type of stuff. Apparently it could be announced over the weekend according to someone on SEN yesterday. I can't see anything changing now. Both parties would look like morons if they pulled the plug. I reckon Ross is spending 8 hours a day watching old games to work out his best 22.

I honestly like that we aren't getting too bogged down in how everyone feels. Sentiment and concern don't win games of footy and we are a football club. Ruthlessness is going to get more done than making us the nicest club in footy ever will.

 

[gringo2011]

I agree with you that it is very unfortunate how it played out with Ratten and that is on the club. He shouldn’t have been re-signed but that was defensible in hindsight but there definitely shouldn’t have been any parameters put on the outcomes of the review beforehand. If it was communicated to him that his job was safe in the review beforehand then we have really messed him around.

I think the 100 days thing is something the media is using to stick the boots in. The extension was clearly agreed on at the bye which is earlier then that and that is why we announced it as soon as we won a game after the bye.

The whole making him beg to keep his job is a load of crap. It’s very respectful to present the findings of the review and get his rebuttal to the findings before making a decision.

The media are irrelevant. They have a system, pressure a club that isn't performing to sack the coach, club sacks coach and the media calls them a rabble for a few weeks until a better story comes along.

Ratts second half of the season was beyond terrible. He must have even felt nervous, Hawks were performing better than us by then. North were probably our only competition for the worst side in the second half of the year.

Signing the extension was a mistake but at least we didn't try to double down and justify the decision. The other option was to cull the list hard and rebuild under Ratts to save face. This was a much better decision.

 

[Saint Kidding]

Would love to see the club announce this directly to the members over the weekend. The footy media would hate us.

 

[BucketsandBanger]

Went to the Freo board to cause I was gonna ask for some takeaways on Ross from their rebuilding years. It’s staggering the negativity towards him. He is the only coach in their history to make them relevant. You’d think they’d have some respect for him. Don’t know what to make of it TBH.

 

[hayes]

Went to the Freo board to cause I was gonna ask for some takeaways on Ross from their rebuilding years. It’s staggering the negativity towards him. He is the only coach in their history to make them relevant. You’d think they’d have some respect for him. Don’t know what to make of it TBH.

I had a quick look and in 2018+19 Cerra and Brayshaw played plenty of games. Even Darcy Tucker played as well. I think it depends on what your goals are with Ross. If it’s pushing for a flag he’ll go all out, if it’s a rebuild he’ll play the young guys. I can’t see them looking at this list and going all out for a flag so I’m sure we’ll see some young guys in there.

 

[Joffaboy]

The mark of Brett Ratten

Brett Ratten

Age

53

Ht

184cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.4

5star

K

12.1

4star

HB

10.3

5star

M

2.9

3star

T

3.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

26.4

5star

K

13.8

5star

HB

12.6

5star

M

3.4

4star

T

1.6

4star

as a man of integrity is that he would have had the media beating down his door over the past week and he has said nothing.

I know there is probably non disclosure clauses, otherwise Watters and Richo would have tipped a bucket on us.
Also they want to work in the industry so it is no good dumping on a previous employer.
Something Dunstan should have learned.

 

[Joffaboy]

Went to the Freo board to cause I was gonna ask for some takeaways on Ross from their rebuilding years. It’s staggering the negativity towards him. He is the only coach in their history to make them relevant. You’d think they’d have some respect for him. Don’t know what to make of it TBH.

Freo. Its the kultcha

 

[sammm]

Went to the Freo board to cause I was gonna ask for some takeaways on Ross from their rebuilding years. It’s staggering the negativity towards him. He is the only coach in their history to make them relevant. You’d think they’d have some respect for him. Don’t know what to make of it TBH.

We did the same when Ross left us.

 

[bird_man]

I had a quick look and in 2018+19 Cerra and Brayshaw played plenty of games. Even Darcy Tucker played as well. I think it depends on what your goals are with Ross. If it’s pushing for a flag he’ll go all out, if it’s a rebuild he’ll play the young guys. I can’t see them looking at this list and going all out for a flag so I’m sure we’ll see some young guys in there.

It's bizarre. He took them from an irrelevant middling club to a grand final in the space of a couple of years.

Maybe they wished that had kept them relevant for longer but he had some aging players that were well past their best or retiring.

He then eventually bit the bullet and played kids for the last couple of years, which seems to have been very good for the development.

If they'd have hung on to Harvey there's no way they get to where they did and then you've got Andy Brayshaw coming out and saying he wouldn't be the player he is without Lyon.

 

[Diehard Saint]

Only if people argue with me. Remember the only way people can be right is if they agree with my post. Any other opinion is wasting letters on the internet.

You’ve been very quiet over this whole episode. What do you think about Ross coming back?

 

[PandaG]

FYI Hunter Clark exercised today

Huge

 

[tomjoad]

There’s a concept called “task-relevant maturity” which comes from High Output Management by Andy Grove of Intel.

It basically says that anyone joining a new org or going into a new role has low task-relevant maturity because they don’t know the context and what’s expected of them. In that situation they need to be micromanaged to build up their maturity to the point where they can take ownership and need less management. It’s a very effective framework for considering how to manage people.

Clearly you can’t just say to a bunch of 18 year olds - or even probably 25 year olds who don’t know what an elite environment looks like - “take ownership”. They don’t know what they don’t know. You can only effectively give someone ownership once they have enough maturity to take it, before that your responsibility is to coach them up to that maturity.

Exactly; agree 100%

 

[hayes]

Joey about to talk about his thoughts on triple m. No doubt he’ll be in favour.

 

[Saintos The ITK]

The mark of Brett Ratten as a man of integrity is that he would have had the media beating down his door over the past week and he has said nothing.

I know there is probably non disclosure clauses, otherwise Watters and Richo would have tipped a bucket on us.
Also they want to work in the industry so it is no good dumping on a previous employer.
Something Dunstan should have learned.

I think it’s the mark of Ratts as a man that he was extended for two years. Even though the board obviously had doubts he was the right one for the job they still extended him because it was so difficult not to given the quality of Ratts character.
I’m glad they pulled up but can definitely see why they went down that path.