TheGhostOfMaurice
If its not yellow and Black, then lick my sack..
- Sep 17, 2019
- 491
- 1,481
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Seattle Seahawks, Paris St Germaine
-
AFLW 2024 - Round 10 - Chat, game threads, injury lists, team lineups and more.
List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency talk Pt 5
- Thread starter richoatthedisco
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
- Jan 18, 2016
- 1,671
- 7,946
- AFL Club
- Richmond
LOL at least make the finals before you start comparing midfields
- May 15, 2017
- 23,014
- 88,005
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Dusty
even Sonsie and Ross are a better duo than CErra and Hewett
- May 15, 2017
- 23,014
- 88,005
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Dusty
curnow n mckay woulda had pretty average years without umps
The McRae Bubble is going to burst so badly next year, guaranteed. They lack so much in the way of elite talent.
heck me. Bloos fans comparing Hopper and Taranto to Cerra, Hewett and Kennedy...
Hopper made the AA squad in 21. That beats all of them 3 alone. Taranto won a B&F in a team that made the GF that also beats all 3.
Hopper made the AA squad in 21. That beats all of them 3 alone. Taranto won a B&F in a team that made the GF that also beats all 3.
Irrelevant, Cats won’t get past the Dees after they pummel the fake Lions tomorrow night
TheGhostOfMaurice
If its not yellow and Black, then lick my sack..
- Sep 17, 2019
- 491
- 1,481
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Seattle Seahawks, Paris St Germaine
Even better when Dusty after 2 more glorious years to contract end is replaced with Greene and Hobbs and the magic goes on.
we need a ruckman. It sounds really likely that Soldo will go through all this movement, but we still desperately need a ready made back-up . Toby avoided injury this year, but it has been common in his career. The physical nature he has committed to playing his whole career has also been pretty brutal on his body suspect. Even if the club decided to entrust that to Samson (which would be a huge stretch), we would likely need another ruckman. We can't lose Chol, CCJ & Soldo & not replace them with anyone else that can ruck at a ready made senior level.
Not a lot of options out there to consider
Not a lot of options out there to consider
- Jul 22, 2016
- 6,431
- 25,649
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Other Teams
- Claremont Tigers, Glenelg Tigers
...and always was
Karp3_dm
Brownlow Medallist
- Jun 29, 2018
- 13,640
- 54,348
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Watching these highlights how the hell did Shai last till pick 29?
Ty rest of comp, amazing
Michaels
Brownlow Medallist
- Feb 4, 2006
- 16,737
- 51,671
- AFL Club
- Richmond
What happened here?
Suppose his Tarranto and Hopper prediction was fun, entertaining and most importantly, correct
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 7,017
- 26,493
- AFL Club
- Richmond
For those talking about TT and Hopper ‘backfiring’ …. you don’t know what you’re talking about. Getting 2 x excellent players to your club cannot be a bad move - it’s just not logical. Sure, they might get injured, but so could a draftee you get. So could Shai Bolton, Balta, Rioli, Baker or Sonsie. We are not picking up a Hannebery or Beams …. we are not picking up a flanker (Wingard) or soft winger (Hill).
And let’s say we ignore TT and Hopper and get 3-4 x draftees instead. They take 3-4 seasons to mature. So by the time they are ready to really make an impact the following players are all gone:
Grimes
Prestia
Lynch
Cotchin
Dusty
Riewoldt
Broad
Pickett
Tarrant
Without TT and Hopper we’d be no chance of a flag from 2023-24 as with Cotchin another year older and Prestia injury prone we just don’t have the midfield grunt.
So we’d really be banking on some amazing draftees to be good enough to have us contending when the above list of players are gone…. get the draft picks wrong and we just don’t have quite enough elite talent to contend.
So we may not win a flag any time soon, and we may not even make top-4 regularly etc…. it’s a bloody hard league. But I do know that TT and Hopper give us our best chance of contending for the next 5-7 seasons. And give us a chance in 2023 which we wouldn’t have without them.
In terms of the 7-year contract lengths, I don’t think we should be naive enough to think Hartley and the team haven’t analysed the data of when quality midfielders ‘retire’. I went back to 2010, and these are the ONLY ‘quality’ midfielders I could find who retired at 30yo or younger… from literally hundreds of midfielders to finish their careers:
2010: Hasleby 29yo
2011: Ling 30yo
B Rawlings 30yo
2012: None
2013: Kerr 30yo
2014: Ball 30yo
Sewell 30yo
2015: Foley 29yo
2016: VanBerlo 30yo
Cooney 30yo
2017: swallow 30yo
2018: None
2019: None
2020: Beams 30yo
Steven 30yo
Bennell 28yo
Ebert 30yo
2021: Scully 29yo
2022: Lambert 30yo
And here are the age of retirees of players I regard as B+ or better midfielders in the same time:
2010: Tyson Edwards 33yo
Goodwin 33yo
McLeod 34yo
Cousins 32yo
Kirk 33yo
Johnson 34yo
2011: None
2012: Power 32yo
2013: Black 34yo
Corey 31yo
Bolton 33yo
Kerr 30yo
2014: Ball 30yo
Hayes 34yo
O’Keefe 33yo
2015: Judd 31yo
Chapman 33yo
Cross 32yo
Cornes 32yo
Goodes 35yo
2016: Swan 32yo
Cooney 30yo
Bartel 32yo
DalSanto 32yo
Boomer 38yo
2017: Thompson 34yo
Kelly 33yo
Watson 32yo
Montagna 33yo
Mitchell 34yo
Priddis 32yo
Boyd 34yo
2018: Griffen 32yo
Vince 32yo
2019: Wells 34yo
Rischetelli. 33yo
Deledio 32yo
Lewis 33yo
Jack 32yo
McVeigh 34yo
2020: Gibbs 31yo
Ablett 36yo
2021: Murphy 34yo
Mackay 33yo
S Hill 31yo
Burgoyne 38yo
Jones 33yo
Rockliff 31yo
2022: Mundy 37yo
Shiels 31yo
Gray 34yo
Edwards 33yo
Hanneberry 31yo
Kennedy 34yo
So as you can see, only 4 x ‘quality’ midfielders have retired before 30yo in the last 12-years: Bennell, Foley, Scully and Hasleby.
And nearly all ‘quality’ mids have retired well beyond 31yo. This is not to say both TT and Hopper will be playing $750k football in year 7 …. but is Dusty playing $1.3m footy? Is Buddy playing $1.2m footy? Is McGovern playing $1m footy etc ……
Anyway … the data shows there is very little risk with 7-year deals for these 2. And $750k will be ‘chump change’ relatively speaking in 7-years time anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
And let’s say we ignore TT and Hopper and get 3-4 x draftees instead. They take 3-4 seasons to mature. So by the time they are ready to really make an impact the following players are all gone:
Grimes
Prestia
Lynch
Cotchin
Dusty
Riewoldt
Broad
Pickett
Tarrant
Without TT and Hopper we’d be no chance of a flag from 2023-24 as with Cotchin another year older and Prestia injury prone we just don’t have the midfield grunt.
So we’d really be banking on some amazing draftees to be good enough to have us contending when the above list of players are gone…. get the draft picks wrong and we just don’t have quite enough elite talent to contend.
So we may not win a flag any time soon, and we may not even make top-4 regularly etc…. it’s a bloody hard league. But I do know that TT and Hopper give us our best chance of contending for the next 5-7 seasons. And give us a chance in 2023 which we wouldn’t have without them.
In terms of the 7-year contract lengths, I don’t think we should be naive enough to think Hartley and the team haven’t analysed the data of when quality midfielders ‘retire’. I went back to 2010, and these are the ONLY ‘quality’ midfielders I could find who retired at 30yo or younger… from literally hundreds of midfielders to finish their careers:
2010: Hasleby 29yo
2011: Ling 30yo
B Rawlings 30yo
2012: None
2013: Kerr 30yo
2014: Ball 30yo
Sewell 30yo
2015: Foley 29yo
2016: VanBerlo 30yo
Cooney 30yo
2017: swallow 30yo
2018: None
2019: None
2020: Beams 30yo
Steven 30yo
Bennell 28yo
Ebert 30yo
2021: Scully 29yo
2022: Lambert 30yo
And here are the age of retirees of players I regard as B+ or better midfielders in the same time:
2010: Tyson Edwards 33yo
Goodwin 33yo
McLeod 34yo
Cousins 32yo
Kirk 33yo
Johnson 34yo
2011: None
2012: Power 32yo
2013: Black 34yo
Corey 31yo
Bolton 33yo
Kerr 30yo
2014: Ball 30yo
Hayes 34yo
O’Keefe 33yo
2015: Judd 31yo
Chapman 33yo
Cross 32yo
Cornes 32yo
Goodes 35yo
2016: Swan 32yo
Cooney 30yo
Bartel 32yo
DalSanto 32yo
Boomer 38yo
2017: Thompson 34yo
Kelly 33yo
Watson 32yo
Montagna 33yo
Mitchell 34yo
Priddis 32yo
Boyd 34yo
2018: Griffen 32yo
Vince 32yo
2019: Wells 34yo
Rischetelli. 33yo
Deledio 32yo
Lewis 33yo
Jack 32yo
McVeigh 34yo
2020: Gibbs 31yo
Ablett 36yo
2021: Murphy 34yo
Mackay 33yo
S Hill 31yo
Burgoyne 38yo
Jones 33yo
Rockliff 31yo
2022: Mundy 37yo
Shiels 31yo
Gray 34yo
Edwards 33yo
Hanneberry 31yo
Kennedy 34yo
So as you can see, only 4 x ‘quality’ midfielders have retired before 30yo in the last 12-years: Bennell, Foley, Scully and Hasleby.
And nearly all ‘quality’ mids have retired well beyond 31yo. This is not to say both TT and Hopper will be playing $750k football in year 7 …. but is Dusty playing $1.3m footy? Is Buddy playing $1.2m footy? Is McGovern playing $1m footy etc ……
Anyway … the data shows there is very little risk with 7-year deals for these 2. And $750k will be ‘chump change’ relatively speaking in 7-years time anyway.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
- Oct 14, 2011
- 69,251
- 120,546
- AFL Club
- Richmond
The same Cerra they were turning on in droves a couple weeks ago?
Hewett on his best day isn't as good as Taranto on his worst
People who say they can't see how it could backfire have obviously not experienced much life.
Trading 2 years of your best draft assets for 2 players can backfire in so many ways.
Once you start moving future picks, the risk factor multiplies considerably. Better teams than us have fallen off the cliff completely from our current position.
The one thing our club has proved to be since 2019 is very unpredictable. Drama, is always just around the corner
Trading 2 years of your best draft assets for 2 players can backfire in so many ways.
Once you start moving future picks, the risk factor multiplies considerably. Better teams than us have fallen off the cliff completely from our current position.
The one thing our club has proved to be since 2019 is very unpredictable. Drama, is always just around the corner
We're getting Grundy.we need a ruckman. It sounds really likely that Soldo will go through all this movement, but we still desperately need a ready made back-up . Toby avoided injury this year, but it has been common in his career. The physical nature he has committed to playing his whole career has also been pretty brutal on his body suspect. Even if the club decided to entrust that to Samson (which would be a huge stretch), we would likely need another ruckman. We can't lose Chol, CCJ & Soldo & not replace them with anyone else that can ruck at a ready made senior level.
Not a lot of options out there to consider
We do what we want.
I keep hearing every year is a super draft.
**** the draft, we just need to keep trading our 1st pick every year for a 24/25 yo player who went top 10 in their draft year.
Noidnadroj
Norm Smith Medallist
- Dec 8, 2020
- 7,017
- 26,493
- AFL Club
- Richmond
Of course it can backfire in hindsight, but so can everything. You can only judge the exact situation as it stands right now. After all, if we don’t win a flag with TT and Hopper, we will never know if we would have won one with our draftees … we might have drafted Ellis, Lennon and CJ for all we know - there’s zero way to know.
So saying it can’t backfire is the wrong way to explain it…. a better way is to say that with everything we know right at this very moment, is Richmond likely to be a better team from 2023-2028 trading some draft assets for TT and Hopper, or are we likely to be better ignoring those 2 and getting in 4 more draftees?
That is the only decision we have had to make. Given we know the hit rate on getting elite midfielders beyond the top-10 is pretty low. And given we know a lot of draftees turn into spuds, then there’s a very very very low chance the players we draft would turn out as a superior on-field package to TT and Hopper for the next 6-years.
So you really need to put your stake in the ground right now, not in hindsight. I think we are making the correct decision to fix our midfield depth issues immediately and go hard for a flag from 2023…. we’ve proven this year we are very close so why not have a red hot crack?
If you believe it’s a mistake then tell us now that you’d prefer to not trade for these two players. And don’t say ‘so long as we don’t pay too much, as you don’t get excellent players for peanuts’.
If you don’t want them, say your piece now.
Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
Not overly relevant. There are a 1000 other ways moves like these backfire. Trading future picks is a risky game. 7 year deals are a really risky move. We are 2 years off COVID & people don't see the risk in committing to something for 7 years??
I am not completely opposed to getting both these guys, I just don't like the idea of being so dry with picks when we also have very obvious roster flaws such as
- Possibly no ready made back up ruckman is Soldo is moved
- No Key Position Forward back up with senior experience & only moderate prospects in Samson & Bauer developing
- Backline depth still a bit unknown
In the 2 years we will be dry of bluechip draft pieces, we will go into those 3 drafts facing the task of replacing Edwards, Lambert, Cotchin, Riewoldt, Tarrant, Grimes, Martin, Prestia.
The moves we made in getting Hopper & Taranto possibly cover us for the impact both Lambert & Edwards had at peak time in our dynasty. I mean, that is a really high level for sure - but it leaves us totally bare in the future years were its now the clubs GOATS walking away. These moves are all about winning a flag in the next 2 years . If that doesn't happen tho, we could see us fall away incredibly fast & have a much longer & harsher rebuil
You would have to be similar types to have the 'Hots' for you
Blind,dumb and annoying
Whats the backfire part of it though? Any player we draft in the next 2 years aint helping us win finals for at least 5 years, by then even the likes of Bolton are getting towards 30 and Lynch and Prestia are gone. We may as well try and win another flag with Dimma in the next 4-5 years. If we fall short, and it happened to Hawthorn, so what? Just start our rebuild when its clear it didnt work, yeah you lose a few years but can start a rebuild at anytime.
3rdManUp
🏆Dimmasty🏆
**** me these oppo supporters are a special salty breed. Their logic:
1. Hopper and Taranto are overrated and won’t be any good
But also…
2. Both are definitely worth two 1st round picks
Dat cognitive dissonance
- Status
