Peatling is Wayne confirmed
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Peatling is Wayne confirmed
Many so called elite mids haven't won flags too.
Shifty Crow
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No joke Captain obvious
But you missed the point completely
Teams win flags with an elite midfielder, or two
However, teams have showed that premierships can be won without and elite ruckman
Just to spell it out
- almost impossible to win a flag without an elite midfielder
- but can win a flag without an elite ruckman
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Swans had elite midfielders that let them down. Swans tackling and pressure was non existent. They choked, it doesn’t matter what Grundy did on that day, the rest of the team sucked, whereas the whole Brisbane team was awesome.
Would Swans have made the GF without Grundy? They scraped into the 8 the previous year without him.
Would Brisbane made the GF without Oscar?
It's a good question.
If Darcy Fort plays all year I don't think they make a GF, hell if Oscar doesn't come back on in the prelim and Joe is left to ruck the whole day I don't think they do either.
But at the same time is a ruckman that important ?? Where would we be with Max Gawn or Tristan Xerri ??
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You’ve just answered it yourself, without Grundy and Oscar neither team make the GF.
Look I’m not saying have a gun ruck and the rest of the team is average you’ll win a flag, but a ruck is an important position, just like any other position on the team. Teams have won flags without a gun KPF or defender or small forward, but that doesn’t stop clubs using valuable draft or trade capital on finding decent ones.
Teams also invest a lot of draft and trade capital on mids, how many of them make it or are elite? Not many.
So allocating a draft pick here or there on a ruck isn’t a stretch, issue is we haven’t at all, our only 2 rucks are rookies and they suck, our lead ruck can’t event hold his place in the team nor make the top 10 of our B&F.
Rucks also get a bum wrap because there is usually only one in a team and they are easy to isolate, nowhere to hide if the team doesn’t perform. Whereas you’ve got a bunch of forwards, defenders and mids who can hide behind each other, hard to just blame just one on them on a result.
Also I’m not saying grab a guy who can just tap the ball, but one who can mark, contribute in the middle and around the ground, you’ve got yourself effectively a taller mid like a Grundy or Gawn or English or Jackson.
Out of 40 players on a list, 3 spots should be rucks. It's common sense. Injuries happen and they are important to the game plan. Well in theory if we had a game plan.
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sounds right inc at different age levels where our club is currently out of whack. 100% need to induce a 4 year+ experienced ruckman this year thru FA (would love De Koning but v unlikely) or a second stronger at another team (eg if Power draft Dodson they have Visentini we could target)
My view is 50/50 with previous posts. There are VERY few truly dominant game changing ruckmen like Gawn or Rehn and overall as a position you dont need a gun ruckman. However you cant afford a DUD ruckman where you get smashed (see Strachans pathetic effort vs Richmond) as its a clear disadvantage.
ROB has been adequate in the last 5-6 years. Is competitive in the ruck but at the very low end of what else he provides and esp his around the ground marking which was actually good in his B&F year for whatever reason has regressed materially since. Which for the AFLs smartest and one of most driven players is hard for me to work out
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Yes.
2022 - No Grundy - 16 wins and smashed in Grand Final.
2023 - No Grundy - 12 wins, Lose an elimination final by 6 points.
2024 - Grundy - 17 wins and smashed in Grand Final.
Lets not act like Grundy was the difference between 23 and 24.
Yes.
If you replaced Grundy/Oscar with ROB those teams still make the GF.
How about that James Peatling?
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Could be a great ruckman.
May not get a game yet, has to prove himself down back in deep defence in the Sanfl
He didn't see Isaac Cumming
he might have, after a dinner and a movie first of course!
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Do you think Tom Hickey was a much better ruckman than ROB? Because the Swans made the GF in 2022 with Hickey.
Do you think Oscar missing the GF against Grundy made a difference?
Which finals game would Brisbane not have won without Oscar? That list would have made the finals...
Do you think Oscar was the difference against Pittonet / Dekoning? You think they lose to GWS. Briggs handily beat Oscar that game. He then played injured and had no impact against Geelong and they won. Didnt play in GF.
2024 Grand Final Teams - combined 9 players in All Australian team - 6 in best 22 (no Ruckman)
2023 Grand Final Teams - combined 9 players in All Australian team - 4 in best 22 (no Ruckman)
2022 Grand Final Teams - combined 9 players in All Australian team - 6 in best 22 (1 half ruckman - Blickavs)
The best players for AFL Premiers are not and have not been ruckman for a very long time. Gawn is the only exception for the past 15 years.
The AFL clubs know this. Look at how few ruckman are taken early in drafts now compared to previous years.
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Brisbane likely don't make the GF this year if Oscar doesn't play a role.... hell they nearly didn't anyway.
They certainly don't make it if ROB plays.
FR0GGY
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Isn’t the point though, not looking for a better ruckman but a better player.
You can’t tell me you’re not better off with 22 good players rather than 21?
Sydney also lost 70 goals from franlklin in 22 and 23 so it’s hard to compare year on year.
Heeney gulden rowbottom and Warner had their best years, is that due to Grundy?
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It's worth noting that Sydney's epic failures on their last 2 visits to the GF are down to a completely disintegration of their gameplan.
Their forwardline is reliant on midfield goals, their defence can't defend big grounds and their midfield don't work hard enough as a unit.
But James Peatling does all of those things
Pretty excited that we have this guy.
Want to see him in the centre for the first bounce next season with Dawson and Rankine.
Want to see him in the centre for the first bounce next season with Dawson and Rankine.
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No. You have to play a ruckman (Essendon final vs us in 2009 as the best example).
And I think its pretty obvious now - as long as your ruckman is average - you are far better off investing in the other 21 players and getting as much improvement out of them compared to investing in the ruckman.
Well look - in a simplistic world - would I swap ROB for Gawn - in a heartbeat. Would I use capital (draft picks) or a large chunk of $$$ to make this happen - absolutely not.
As sport continues to get more and more detailed, scientific and smarter - you will see clubs continue to de-prioritise ruckman. Same thing happened in the NFL with running backs.
FR0GGY
From a cartel villa in Tuscany
I was editing my post when you replied.
You don’t think Grundy had any influence on Warner gulden Heeney and rowbottom having their best years?
Sydney lost Franklin who contributed 70 goals over 22/23 so it’s hard to compare the team year on year.
Shifty Crow
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I was editing my post when you replied.
You don’t think Grundy had any influence on Warner gulden Heeney and rowbottom having their best years?
Sydney lost Franklin who contributed [emoji[emoji6
]
][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]] goals over / so it’s hard to compare the team year on year.
You don’t think Grundy had any influence on Warner gulden Heeney and rowbottom having their best years?
Sydney lost Franklin who contributed [emoji[emoji6
]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]] goals over / so it’s hard to compare the team year on year.
No - those mids are elite and will be elite no matter who rucks
Grundy had a really poor [emoji[emoji6
]] week patch and many of those mids still performed at elite levels Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com
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I think that list does just fine. I mean they won the prelim and grand final without him. He got handily beaten against GWS.....
Swapping out O for ROB would not have made much difference.
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