List Mgmt. 2009 trade week discussion

[baywatch5]

These ae my thoughts:

Obvious salary cap issues right now and with Ablett and Selwood off contract end of next year someone has to go.... for me that player is Blake. was on 500k, will attract interest as ruckman always do. look at cam wood. We then promote Mumford onto senior list and hang onto west.

Tenace, D.Johnson and Egan all delisted. Also Laidler promoted to senior list. I think the future of Lonergan at the club depends on T.Harleys decision. If Harley retires Lonners will be retained. If Harley goes on a further year then I think Lonners will be delisted.

This will give us 3 picks in the draft (17 , 33 and whatever we can get for Blake)

 

[Vegas.]

Blake on 500k? Surely not...

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

Blake on 500k? Surely not...

paid overs to keep him, felt sorry for him

will be getting a pay cut this time round

let us see where his loyalty lies

me think he will chase the $$$$


another second round pick comes our way

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

These ae my thoughts:

Obvious salary cap issues right now and with Ablett and Selwood off contract end of next year someone has to go.... for me that player is Blake. was on 500k, will attract interest as ruckman always do. look at cam wood. We then promote Mumford onto senior list and hang onto west.

Tenace, D.Johnson and Egan all delisted. Also Laidler promoted to senior list. I think the future of Lonergan at the club depends on T.Harleys decision. If Harley retires Lonners will be retained. If Harley goes on a further year then I think Lonners will be delisted.

This will give us 3 picks in the draft (17 , 33 and whatever we can get for Blake)

loners will be traded to a team of choice
-> or he could wait for the $$$ on the coast

 

[McCrabb for PM]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

harley will play on. he wants to get to 200 games. he stays johnson goes

My personal opinion is that Harley will retire. He has been a fantastic captain and leader of the club, but he will know that his best is past him and i cant see him staying just to play 2 games. Its not his style to put the individual ahead of the club. I dont know how much he is on, but he may see it as a personal sacrifice and contribution to reducing the salary cap squeeze in order to keep the team together for future glory.

 

[Geelong2k9]

It sucks for one reason or another where we have some club champs give it up for one reason or another just before 200 games.......ie. Steve Hocking, Brenton Sanderson and possibly Tom Harley.....

 

[DeanoT]

paid overs to keep him, felt sorry for him

will be getting a pay cut this time round

let us see where his loyalty lies

me think he will chase the $$$$


another second round pick comes our way

No way in the wide world is Blake on $500K pa. That would make him one of the top 3 or 4 highest paid players at the club.

You honestly think Blake is on more than Ottens ?

 

[darren forssman]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

Someone who wants 1 of the fastest players in the comp who is also a dual premiership player?

i like wojak, but he has like 2-3 seasons (at most).

i cant see another club forking over a draft pick for him.

 

[TheBigCat]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

I think we need our senior players to stagger their departures for the good of the club don't want to lose them all in one year, so Harley this year (great captain but he is past his best) Miburn next year and maybe Moons and then perhaps Scarlett (Moons) the following year. This leaves Wojo (maybe traded) Ling/Ottens (another 2/3 years maybe) while most of the others are there for 5/6 years (salary cap permitting). The point is we need to slowly filter iin the replacements like Gillies and???. This is the question. While Hogan can play AFL standard he will not be first choice while our star midfield is fit. Hunt will be back next year but if McKenna is not going to make it we need another KPB as Lonnergan is only a back up from what I can see. Can we convert West to a KPB?

Up forward there is probably less of an issue as I think one of Simpson/Brown will come through to support Hawkins and we have lost of young small forwards coming through. It is not our so called ageing list that is the issue but how do we fit all the good players under the cap while keeping reasonable back up for injury replacements.

I think Laidler and Mumford will be promoted off the rookie list thus under the new rules we would only have to draft one player minimum. With Harls and Egan (so sad) gone that leaves probably Tenace most likely to be first gone to make up the minimum 3 delistings/retirements. Won't get much for Tenace so to get another high draft pick that we can actually use I think we need to off load 2/3 players to one club for one high draft pick.

Which clubs are having a high turnover this year that would be looking for established players rather than use low draft picks in a shallow draft. Richmond springs to mind, they might be looking for about 10 players but they are not going to get them all in the draft. We may need to package a group like Tenace/Wojo/Blake to get a decent low pick that we can actually use.

To finish I think we should trade Blake while he may have some currency. He may be a good tap ruckman but other than that he is a spectator. We would not have won the GF without Ottens who competes for the ball after the ruck contest is over rather than watching the game. In a close game of contested footy you need a ruckman who can hold up play at the stoppage by tackling etc rather than just standing there. (Side issue but Stokes should have played instead of Blake in the GF.)

 

[hamG]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

blake was on 500k

That is practically trolling mate, just give it up.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

Possible Trades

Kane Tenace - Most likely will be delisted and picked up another club in the Pre-Season Draft. A draft pick would be a bonus.

David Johnson - Most likely will be delisted. Maybe picked up by another club in the Pre-Season Draft. Again a draft pick would be a bonus.

David Wojcinski - Out of Contract and will generate interest. At 29 years of age we would probably get a third round pick for him.

Matthew Stokes - Out of Contract and will generate interest. Would probably get a second round pick for him.

Mark Blake - Out of Contract and could be traded if he doesn't like the contract put to him. Worth a second round pick.

Trent West - Not sure if he is out of contract, but has now spent 4 years on the Geelong list for 7 games. Possibly could get a fourth round pick.

Ryan Gamble - Could request a trade due to lack of opportunites. I think the Cats would want a second rounder for him.


Tom Lonergan - Is he out of contract? Cant see any teams wanting him and will probably be delisted. (unless under contract)

Obviously, I couldn't see us losing both Blake and West but one could go.

Of this list, Blake strikes me as the most likely to go. I could be being harsh based on the King situation, but if we are in cap trouble so the guys who have yet to sign will be offered contracts in the coming weeks that aren't much $$$, Blake doesn't strike me as much likely to accept that.

I would accept this though. He would have some currency in the market and I believe that if we show faith in Mumford and West we will be rewarded.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Blake on 500k? Surely not...

I think it's likely...keep in mind at the time he signed Richmond and Saints were offering as much if not more and so we got held over a barrel pretty much by the Blakes.

What is a certainty though, is that no matter what he got in that contract, he will get less in the one he is offered next week. If he isn't happy with that then we should trade him while he has some currency.

 

[DeanoT]

I think it's likely...keep in mind at the time he signed Richmond and Saints were offering as much if not more and so we got held over a barrel pretty much by the Blakes.

What is a certainty though, is that no matter what he got in that contract, he will get less in the one he is offered next week. If he isn't happy with that then we should trade him while he has some currency.

I very much doubt that Corey, Ottens, Mooney, Ling or any other regular top 10 in our B&F except for Harley, Scarlett, Ablett or Bartel would be on $500K, so hard to fathom Blake being on more.

$250-$300K max would be where I would have thought.

I very much doubt that we will trade Blake. Given Otto's injury history, we need at least two backup ruckmen, and Mumford is still developing. If we trade Blake, and Ottens goes down, Mumford can't be our number 1 ruckman all year.

 

[fishman]

Thoughts here?

Marcus Drum for Kane Tenace?

 

[Bakes]

Mumford has been offered $50,000 more from Melbourne. While he loves the cats he is waiting to see how the Blake saga plays out before making his decision. Either 1 of Blake or Mumford will be traded.

 

[catempire]

Mumford has been offered $50,000 more from Melbourne. While he loves the cats he is waiting to see how the Blake saga plays out before making his decision. Either 1 of Blake or Mumford will be traded.

How can we trade Mumford, isn't he a rookie?

 

[Pivo]

How can we trade Mumford, isn't he a rookie?

Well I don't know about the ability to trade rookies but I'm pretty sure this is Mumford's last year on the rookie list so Geelong probably have to release him if they don't elevate him...which I suspect they will.

 

[catempire]

Well I don't know about the ability to trade rookies but I'm pretty sure this is Mumford's last year on the rookie list so Geelong probably have to release him if they don't elevate him...which I suspect they will.

That was my understanding too.

If we don't elevate him he can nominate for the PSD draft and Melbourne have first pick.

 

[Fooseball]

Matt Maguire.

Hasn't been getting a gig at StKilda, may be up for trade?

Would he fit in with our defensive unit? I reckon he would be a good inclusion down back....

Thoughts?

 

[hamG]

Pretty sure this year the AFL has added the ability to trade rookies this year. If not this year then in the near future, undoubtably so the GC can snaffle more of our listed talent.

 

[TheMightyAchilles]

Re: Our salary cap - Players may have to be offloaded, Who?

lonergan is on jack, was on $150k approx, so whether he stays or goes no big deal

blake was on 500k, and he will not be offered this, more like 300k, so he might go, depends on where his heart and ego are at, he goes west stays, he stays west goes, pretty simple

stokes is going nowhere, he wants to stay, club want him

gamble will ask to leave, thinks like prismall (who is holding onto his medal)

harley will play on. he wants to get to 200 games. he stays johnson goes

tenace will be offered up to be traded

wojac is going nowehere, he got his medal, and wants another

byrnes will stay, and knows he is on the fringe, but guess what he has 2 medals, and if he was playing at melbourne he would have been retired

enough said

 

[bigdroppunt]

Re: Matt Maguire.

can not afford....

 

[CATACK]

Re: Matt Maguire.

can not afford....

I dont reckon, he would be on that much....

Consider this... Harley retires, Gamble goes, Tenace goes, D Johnson goes, now it would free up some money at least.

I reckon he would be a great fit your side...

 

[vinum coupe]

Re: Matt Maguire.

Also just draw up our backline options for next year and ask yourself why?

Hunt - Scarlett - Mackie
Milburn - Taylor - Enright

Others - Wojo, Gillies, Kelly, Laidler, West?
Gone - You'd assume Harley and DJ

Gillies needs to get experience with the backline now.
Milburn surely only has one left.

The only guy I would bring in is Lake (I know we can't afford him) or a mature age player - ala Taylor

 

[Casey Cat]

I'm not sure why there are so many people keen to get rid of Blake. Without checking I get the feeling that throughout this dominant period of ours over the last three years the ruckman who has played the most games has been Blake. By that I mean, the ruckman who has carried the most load and contributed the most has been Blake, not Ottens.

When was the last time we got a full season out of Ottens?

Mumford is great around the ground - except when he doesn't get as many possessions as Blake - which was what happened in his last few games. If Blake is a liability then what was Mumford when he wasn't contributing with hit outs, possessions or even tackles?

And what does Ottens contribute when he's out injured and having to be nursed through matches?

Over the last three years Blake has carried most of the responsibility in the ruck and since being dropped and forcing his way back into the team has demonstrated an enormous capacity to generate clearances through either spot on ruck work or even winning the ball off the ground himself. And no one can criticize his disposal under immense pressure in the GF. He stood up and played like we all wished he would play.

So I'm a bit confused. We want to trade away a ruckman who played a significant role in winning a flag for us and who also played an even more significant role in helping us to get to three grand finals in a row in favour of what? Keeping one 29 year old injury prone (albeit a superstar) ruckman, a mature aged rookie who only recently developed a work ethic to lose masses of weight and become a goer around the ground but who is currently limited in the ruck, and a couple of part timers in Hawkins and Mooney.

I don't even count West in this as his only game for 2009 contributed nothing to the team.

Don't think for a moment that I think Blake is perfect - far from it! I'd like to see him average at least 15 possessions a game and take at least 3 contested marks per game on top of his 20+ hit outs, but honestly, how many AFL ruckmen average that? More importantly, I'd like to see him average a minimum of 4 tackles per game. But none of this means I don't think he contributes to the team by giving us a massive advantage in the ruck through his ability to help the team win clearance after clearance after clearance.

A ruckman's first responsibility is to give his onballers first use of the ball. If he can't win the ruck he then should contest the ball on the ground using his bigger body. Mumford contests the ball at centre bounces on the ground so much because, quite frankly, he loses more hit outs than he wins and so has to do something to make up for it. Blake is the opposite, which contributes to him having less involvement at ground level. Having said that, I have noticed that when the ball is on the ground he doesn't get in as quick as mumford, but still, he has contested plenty in the second half of the year.