List Mgmt. 2022 Trade Thread - Part III

[stavro#4]

I don't think there were any excuses. They said the boys were fit and then months later corrected that. That's not to say that at the time they didn't think the boys were fit enough, it just means after a larger sample size they realised they still needed to do more work.

So a club with all the data needed a bigger sample size

But members who have no data and use their eyes, could tell things weren’t right.

**** me.

Do you ever take the blinkers off and digest a situation from both sides before you give an opinion?

The club didn’t need more data to sack the bloke only a short time later. They didn’t want to admit error and fault.

 

[Veer Right]

We are an emotional club.
All our decisions are based on emotion and not for winning premierships.

We sign fringe players because we like them, instead of trading them to improve our team.
Geary should of never players on last year! He took a spot of a player we could of been developing, but emotion took over and we signed him up so he could have a farewell game, that ultimately didn’t happen.
Butler had done hardly anything all year and should of been dropped, Ratts coming out puffing chest “we are getting tough on players!” he has 1 good game and we sign him up. Even Ratts gets an extension. Lots of talk pre bye about him signing an extension then after the bye it goes quiet as we are losing games, as soon as we win one, beat Carlton, boom! He signs a 3 year deal.

It seems we base all our decisions on emotions, not what’s best for the club to win a premiership.

Reading the first line and a half, i was with you 100% then not so much.

Kept Geary around for leadership. Club had a valid point but i personally would have delisted him long before due to his limited football ability. Also points to a glaring weakness that we don't develop leaders, have culture issues and so on. Now i would like to think the club is going hard to rectify this issue with the current shakeup.

Butler plays because his 2020 season was elite. He did make the 40 man AA squad. Can't throw that away based on a downturn on goal numbers. He plays the role Ratten wants and that is forward pressure. You don't rate that and that's fine yet others do including myself. So ok, one goal a game average isn't ideal for a small forward yet until someone can push him out...

Ratts got an extension BUT look at what's happened this off season. Lot of his management has been curtailed by the looks of it with a number of fresh faces to give him the support he needs. How many staff pushed out the door so far? The club taking the approach those around him are not cutting it. No different to Hardwick before the tigers come good. Two more years to prove his worth. He fails still, not so bad, Lenny or Enright i am happy to see take over.

 

[saintkildaman]

Geary, Hanners, Kent, Ryder, Joyce and Long all leaving with only Cordy confirming to join. Unless we are planning on taking 5 ND selections then surely we’d have a list for Bytel? Unless I’m confused and some kind soul can explain

 

[stavro#4]

Is Clark out a weaker list in 2023? he did close to nothing last year and we add Coff this year. I'd take the future 1st from Port for him

If that’s the opinion on Clark, why are people crying about potentially losing him?

 

[BrutThough]

Why on earth would you re sign a coach that has reached finals once in his three years?

Was someone clamoring for his signature? Woukd we have lost him if we waited until the end of the year? Woukd we have cared if we did?

You can argue it’s not traditionally early but it’s pretty ridiculous to suggest that he had earned it because we started well especially given how poorly we finished.

We set the criteria pre season about what he needed to do to get an extension. The timeline for it was also never post season because no club is going to willingly put themselves in a state of uncertainty for players/staff making decisions on their future or leave themselves vulnerable to having the coach they want poached just to appease a few.

So one we felt he ticked off that criteria, we extended him like any well run organisation would have.

 

[bird_man]

Is Clark out a weaker list in 2023? he did close to nothing last year and we add Coff this year. I'd take the future 1st from Port for him

Yes

Just because he has been injured the best part of two years does not mean he will be next year

We are a much stronger list with a fit Clark and Coffield

 

[Hubnester]

The comments on list spots in regards to Bytel are interesting.
I thought we had 5 spots to fill, so if that is a factor that might see him squeezed out, what does that say?
We expect to draft 5 kids, presumeably a late pick is good enough to take his list spot?
Or we expect to land at least one additional player before then. Am I reading this right?

 

[bird_man]

If that’s the opinion on Clark, why are people crying about potentially losing him?

Thats his opinion on Clark

I doubt people wanting to keep him have the same opinion

 

[The Punter]

On Hopper

• GWS got back a future first
• GWS were selling in part because it wanted Hopper's salary off the books
• GWS are able to bottom out because their financial viability isn't tied to constant on-field competitiveness

 

[#gosaintas]

If that’s the opinion on Clark, why are people crying about potentially losing him?

Was just saying his 2022 output was negligible so losing him doesn't make the 2023 list weaker than the 2022 list

 

[BrutThough]

The comments on list spots in regards to Bytel are interesting.
I thought we had 5 spots to fill, so if that is a factor that might see him squeezed out, what does that say?
We expect to draft 5 kids, presumeably a late pick is good enough to take his list spot?
Or we expect to land at least one additional player before then. Am I reading this right?

We only have 4 usable draft picks as it stands which leaves us with 1 free spot plus whatever happens with Bytel (more likely to stay based off his managers comments) and Lienert (media reporting he is unlikely to get a contract).

So maybe 1 DFA and leave a spot open for a train on over summer?

 

[stavro#4]

Was just saying his 2022 output was negligible so losing him doesn't make the 2023 list weaker than the 2022 list

But the list didn’t make finals in 2022.

So we need to get better to make them in 2023.

 

[#gosaintas]

But the list didn’t make finals in 2022.

So we need to get better to make them in 2023.

Coaching cost us finals. I reckon Coff back, a luckier draw and a coaching improvement can get us there. I'd take the future 1st from Port.

 

[George]

So a club with all the data needed a bigger sample size

But members who have no data and use their eyes, could tell things weren’t right.

* me.

Do you ever take the blinkers off and digest a situation from both sides before you give an opinion?

The club didn’t need more data to sack the bloke only a short time later. They didn’t want to admit error and fault.

I'm not sure where you get the idea I have blinkers on because I don't shit on the club at every opportunity, and in this instance shit on them for something as obvious as a PR exercise. I would assume that you do understand that anything the club decides to release publicly is for the purpose of placating members, until the point that it becomes absolutely unreasonable to continue placating and just speak honestly. Looks to me like this is what happened here, like it does most other times. Placate until you can't placate anymore.

And if they genuinely believed we were fit enough, you don't agree that opinions can change based on new evidence? Would be odd if so.

They absolutely admitted error and fault by sacking him - not admitting would be to keep the guy...that seems obvious enough to me.

 

[The_Steadier]

This is brilliant.

Yes, can you email the club, no way any of our mugs are clever enough to consider this.

Except for the part where ALL of the handful of clubs ahead of us in the PSD could easily restructure their payments to accomodate paying 1.2mill and take him instead.

Genius, except for the bit where it doesn't work at all.

 

[stavro#4]

I'm not sure where you get the idea I have blinkers on because I don't s**t on the club at every opportunity, and in this instance s**t on them for something as obvious as a PR exercise. I would assume that you do understand that anything the club decides to release publicly is for the purpose of placating members, until the point that it becomes absolutely unreasonable to continue placating and just speak honestly. Looks to me like this is what happened here, like it does most other times. Placate until you can't placate anymore.

You don't agree that opinions can changed based on new evidence? That's odd.

So your opinion is that the club thinks we are kids and need a show put on to make us not think there is a dumpster fire brewing at Moorabbin?

I’ll stop here. Continuing discussing this narrative is killing my brain cells

 

[bergholt]

Yes

Just because he has been injured the best part of two years does not mean he will be next year

We are a much stronger list with a fit Clark and Coffield

Yes agreed, but that's for 2023 not for the future necessarily. If we think Clark isn't going to get there with us, then instead of keeping him for his 6th year on the list and hoping against hope that he takes the next step finally, we're better off trading him if we can get a good pick and building a group around the younger core players in Max, Windy, Mitch and Nas.

 

[bergholt]

So your opinion is that the club thinks we are kids and need a show put on to make us not think there is a dumpster fire brewing at Moorabbin?

I suspect the club know that 95% of supporters don't pay much attention day to day, and only watch the club on weekends. Those supporters can totally be kept happy by bread and circuses. It's only the nuffies on here like us that need actual substance.

 

[The Punter]

Yes agreed, but that's for 2023 not for the future necessarily. If we think Clark isn't going to get there with us, then instead of keeping him for his 6th year on the list and hoping against hope that he takes the next step finally, we're better off trading him if we can get a good pick and building a group around the younger core players in Max, Windy, Mitch and Nas.

The club clearly doesn't think it can get a good pick for him.

The point of contention is what represents a good pick.

 

[Joffaboy]

Unless we get massive overs for Clark we are toast as a football club.

Regardless of what we get, I think we will rue the day we trade Clark.

Hope I am wrong, fear I wont be.

 

[JediSaint]

Reading the first line and a half, i was with you 100% then not so much.

Kept Geary around for leadership. Club had a valid point but i personally would have delisted him long before due to his limited football ability. Also points to a glaring weakness that we don't develop leaders, have culture issues and so on. Now i would like to think the club is going hard to rectify this issue with the current shakeup.

Butler plays because his 2020 season was elite. He did make the 40 man AA squad. Can't throw that away based on a downturn on goal numbers. He plays the role Ratten wants and that is forward pressure. You don't rate that and that's fine yet others do including myself. So ok, one goal a game average isn't ideal for a small forward yet until someone can push him out...

Ratts got an extension BUT look at what's happened this off season. Lot of his management has been curtailed by the looks of it with a number of fresh faces to give him the support he needs. How many staff pushed out the door so far? The club taking the approach those around him are not cutting it. No different to Hardwick before the tigers come good. Two more years to prove his worth. He fails still, not so bad, Lenny or Enright i am happy to see take over.

Just venting some frustrations....
We were clearly exposed in some areas of the game and we haven't seemed to make any on field changes.
i 100% agree with you that structurally the coaching area we have the biggest change, and i now i hope that the change impacts the playing group and our style of play. Hopefully this change will bring Butler back to his best.

As for the Geary thing, I was annoyed about as he was never in the best 22 and if they wanted his leadership then they should of put him in a mentoring/coaching role.

Do anyone think we will resign Hannerbury on a "played games" rookie contract?
The swans game showed his on field leadership and still has the skills.

 

[bergholt]

The club clearly doesn't think it can get a good pick for him.

The point of contention is what represents a good pick.

Yeah good point. IMO needs to be 15 or better, but I don't know this draft so maybe that would still be shit players.

 

[The_Steadier]

It's only the nuffies on here like us that need actual substance

Sounds like we need to start our own nuffie union.

"What do we want?!"

"Better Trainee Receptionists!"

"When do we want it?"

"NOW!"

 

[stavro#4]

I suspect the club know that 95% of supporters don't pay much attention day to day, and only watch the club on weekends. Those supporters can totally be kept happy by bread and circuses. It's only the nuffies on here like us that need actual substance.

There would be supporters that fit in with your narrative. But it wouldn’t be close to 95%.

maybe our cheer squad and George.

 

[_Maximus_12]

This is brilliant.

Yes, can you email the club, no way any of our mugs are clever enough to consider this.

If he’s still sitting there at 7pm tonight I’ll email Gags tomorrow