List Mgmt. 2023 Trade Thread - Part III

[George]

The embedded resources below are kept up to date by the trade board mods (as much as possible – we are human after all). Enjoy!

Spoiler: 2023 Draft Order

Spoiler: 2024 Draft Order, aka Future Picks

Spoiler: Blue Tick Rumours

Courtesy of Lore

 

[D2D3]

Anyone disappointed if Dow ends up at Sydney?

Sort of but not really? He’s one of those players where it’s kinda like eh. It’s a complete gamble as to whether he works out or not.

 

[kernelT]

I started writing an essay, but have reeled it back in.

Would Essendon rather lose Shiel now, or lose Shiel later?

He will be 31 before the start of the next season, has been perennially injured, has shifted from his midfield role to make way for others, and is looking likely to deliver a reduced performance as a result. Is his off field contribution (role model, leader, etc.) worth the $600-900k that he is on next year?

Essendon have more than half their list out of contract next year, and I get that Shiel is only on this money for 2024 (and therefore contracts in 2025 arent affected), but if he is not part of your plans moving forward, and by all reports is shopping himself around, then what's the point of keeping him on?

They have an opportunity to be really ruthless in their TPP management, have HUGE (i.e., 6-10% of 2024 cap) room to front end players and be really proactive in their 2025 re-signings, or even remain competitive in the FA market, as a result of moving on a player who isn't a part of their future, and is taking up a large chunk of salary.

Sadly, the Essendon boys club is rife in the organisation and seeps into their supporter base. They have been entitled for a lot of their existence and this hasn't changed over the last two decades.

I don't believe they have the expertise or understanding in house to understand this strategic opportunity, and instead are still wanting to play mind games in the media to chalk up wins at the trade table, then being up-front, honest, and mature with their counterparts and become great operators.

I have no faith that this Dylan Shiel saga will eventuate, and am now seeing it firmly separate from the Gresham compo.

Saints will play both appropriately, either matching or accepting the compensation for Gresham (likely accepting, as Bombers would understand what is acceptable terms from both the Saints and Gresham's manager, unless they try and low-ball us), and taking the Shiel discussions on face value, which is the salary dump of an older player who has 1-3 years left in him, all highly unlikely to play more than 50% of those games.

For once, I'm really glad that we have SOS and Gubby to a) have the contacts and know-how to seek out these opportunities and b) to operate smartly and strategically making the right moves for our organisation and not selling our future.

So Shiel and 8 for a future 4th?

Keep Gresham unless it’s band 1.

Lichen it.

 

[bladeyy21]

Sydney have warner, gulden, rowbottom, mills, parker, jordon, papley, mcinerney and possibly even heeney rotating through that midfield. Please leave dow for us

 

[Rooeys shorts]

I started writing an essay, but have reeled it back in.

Would Essendon rather lose Shiel now, or lose Shiel later?

He will be 31 before the start of the next season, has been perennially injured, has shifted from his midfield role to make way for others, and is looking likely to deliver a reduced performance as a result. Is his off field contribution (role model, leader, etc.) worth the $600-900k that he is on next year?

Essendon have more than half their list out of contract next year, and I get that Shiel is only on this money for 2024 (and therefore contracts in 2025 arent affected), but if he is not part of your plans moving forward, and by all reports is shopping himself around, then what's the point of keeping him on?

They have an opportunity to be really ruthless in their TPP management, have HUGE (i.e., 6-10% of 2024 cap) room to front end players and be really proactive in their 2025 re-signings, or even remain competitive in the FA market, as a result of moving on a player who isn't a part of their future, and is taking up a large chunk of salary.

Sadly, the Essendon boys club is rife in the organisation and seeps into their supporter base. They have been entitled for a lot of their existence and this hasn't changed over the last two decades.

I don't believe they have the expertise or understanding in house to understand this strategic opportunity, and instead are still wanting to play mind games in the media to chalk up wins at the trade table, then being up-front, honest, and mature with their counterparts and become great operators.

I have no faith that this Dylan Shiel saga will eventuate, and am now seeing it firmly separate from the Gresham compo.

Saints will play both appropriately, either matching or accepting the compensation for Gresham (likely accepting, as Bombers would understand what is acceptable terms from both the Saints and Gresham's manager, unless they try and low-ball us), and taking the Shiel discussions on face value, which is the salary dump of an older player who has 1-3 years left in him, all highly unlikely to play more than 50% of those games.

For once, I'm really glad that we have SOS and Gubby to a) have the contacts and know-how to seek out these opportunities and b) to operate smartly and strategically making the right moves for our organisation and not selling our future.

This reeled in version is still an essay...

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Anyone disappointed if Dow ends up at Sydney?

Yeah, mainly because he’s a mid, he’s young and he’s free.

 

[St Neil]

Sydney have warner, gulden, rowbottom, mills, parker, jordon, papley, mcinerney and possibly even heeney rotating through that midfield. Please leave dow for us

If Dow wants regular game time then it’s a strange decision for him to consider Sydney.

Maybe they have provided more years and dollars than we have.

 

[xfiledavid]

mid season game. familiar faces behind me.

Working on some deals?

 

[sammm]

12 million Americans believe that lizard people control US politics.

78,000 Essendon members believe Hirdy was persecuted.

Dard shat the bed the other night.

What a time to be alive.

Really, 12 million Americans?

 

[xfiledavid]

mid season game. familiar faces behind me.

Working on some deals?

Was actually round 2. vs bulldogs.

 

[DougalHoward]

Don't worry about Dow he's already signed with us

 

[St Neil]

Don't worry about Dow he's already signed with us

Not doubting you, but why would he be touring Sydney’s facilities? (assuming that report is true).

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Don't worry about Dow he's already signed with us

Thanks champ

 

[Nutsngum]

So let me ask this general question.
If Gresham was on the general market and not a free agent what would his worth be?

He is a 26yo (for next season) goal kicking small who can run through the midfield, averaging 17.6d and a goal per game, played 23 games and is considered to have had a below average season.

I think that If we were to try and find a player like that the expectation would be a first round draft pick in the teens.
The "band 1 compensation" is just a fiasco no matter which way you look at it.

 

[moirae42]

Sydney's facility is better than ours. Its better than everyone's.

 

[Premium]

So let me ask this general question.
If Gresham was on the general market and not a free agent what would his worth be?

He is a 26yo (for next season) goal kicking small who can run through the midfield, averaging 17.6d and a goal per game, played 23 games and is considered to have had a below average season.

I think that If we were to try and find a player like that the expectation would be a first round draft pick in the teens.
The "band 1 compensation" is just a fiasco no matter which way you look at it.

Compare him to Crouch who we got as a free agent and was the same age as Gresham when traded - Crouch was chased by Cats , Tigers and Port.
They say we got him because we were the only club to offer him a 5 year contract.

Crouch was a Best a fairest medal winner for the Crows and career at the Crows is far superior to what Gresham has shown with us and Adelaide received draft pick number 23 as compensation.

Expecting a first round pick for Gresham - don't think so.

 

[PetWussy]

Compare him to Crouch who we got as a free agent and was the same age as Gresham when traded - Crouch was chased by Cats , Tigers and Port.
They say we got him because we were the only club to offer him a 5 year contract.

Crouch was a Best a fairest medal winner for the Crows and career at the Crows is far superior to what Gresham has shown with us and Adelaide received draft pick number 23 as compensation.

Expecting a first round pick for Gresham - don't think so.

Crouchey just got done with the nose beers so his value fell hard. Missed his first 2 games if I remember correctly

 

[StFly]

Yeah I'm a late first early 2nd for Gresh as nominal value.

Is a mid forward and known goal kicker, sometime mid burst extractor and ready made with not really much of an injury history, achilles are just bastards. If he was wrong side of 28 and this was a 2025 discussion it'd be more a "maybe late 3rd?" sort of discussion if he had same questions as this season as no real room to move under any new guidance.

To me this is why a Shiel is purely a monetary thing and attempt to buy a pick, the second that doesn't eventual the offer is dead in the water as 31 at summation of next season, man is unlearning and learning squat before he's outta there, and having lost multiple seasons as a really only mid, he's a Jones replica in rehab at present.

Crouchey just got done with the nose beers so his value fell hard. Missed his first 2 games if I remember correctly

Him and Stengle got the "alcohol and drug" talk and missed some of the '21 season, so in the world that was post Essendon and spiking with illicit use instances, it damaged them both worth wise and Crows had to bleed something despite posturing as it was a history build with them and boozy nights around town. Mainly stating this as wasn't just alcohol they both got questioned about.

 

[Premium]

Crouchey just got done with the nose beers so his value fell hard. Missed his first 2 games if I remember correctly

It does effect it for sure but Smith of the Dogs got done but what is his value , same as Ginnivan , ---- if they are worth a first round draft pick a team will give it to you.
Most players would of used recreational drugs and if you are more than a recreational drug user the word would get out and you would get dropped like a hot balloon.(Cousins a fine example)

I had to laugh when GWS Giants newly appointed head of development Robbie Chancellor had been busted buying cocaine, charged by Police on December 10.

 

[austinnn]

Sydney's facility is better than ours. Its better than everyone's.

Does he care about nice facilities or does he care about getting a game?

 

[austinnn]

"Dropped like a hot balloon" is a new and hilarous expression

 

[D2D3]

If Dow wants regular game time then it’s a strange decision for him to consider Sydney.

Maybe they have provided more years and dollars than we have.

“Dunston to Melbourne because he isn’t getting a game” energy

 

[MordySaint]

Ok whatever.

On SM-S908E using BigFooty.com mobile app

I understand with what you are saying but I have a big issue with putting another washed up player on our list wanting his last big salary and boost to his superannuation.

Here is my angle ->

We agree to take Shiel and pay out his contract
Essendon use that amount to increase what they are offering Gresham
Compensation moves up to band 1 for losing Gresham
We then put Shiel on the long term injury list and choose a young midfielder

 

[stavro#4]

I understand with what you are saying but I have a big issue with putting another washed up player on our list wanting his last big salary and boost to his superannuation.

Here is my angle ->

We agree to take Shiel and pay out his contract
Essendon use that amount to increase what they are offering Gresham
Compensation moves up to band 1 for losing Gresham
We then put Shiel on the long term injury list and choose a young midfielder

If we got 13 and Shiel for Gresham and hypothetically we took a midfielder with that pick.

The chances of that mid contributing straight off the bat in year 1 are low.

Having Shiel there is a benefit. A fit and firing Shiel is a huge positive as he would be our best clearance mid

 

[bergholt]

Yeah, mainly because he’s a mid, he’s young and he’s free.

He’s not actually that young, same age as Coffield. Still has his best years ahead of him for sure but not like he’s completely untried.

 

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

"Dropped like a hot balloon" is a new and hilarous expression

Like what happens after the balloon is dropped. It rises?

Much to consider here.