List Mgmt. 2024 Trade Thread - No.1

[phantom13]

Ross keeps his spot for the remainder of the year for me. Playing a role (that contributes to a higher draft pick) ultimate team man.

Harsh, the lot of you.

 

[MrFoster]

Howard was awful first game back and has been pretty good ever since. I'd keep at an appropriate price and contract length, unless we are swept off our feet by draft capital.

Issue with Howard is he can’t be trusted. Can’t take contested marks, is a weak 1 on 1 defender, slips over like Webster and always has a mistake or 2 in him per game that cost games..

 

[The Punter]

Issue with Howard is he can’t be trusted. Can’t take contested marks, is a weak 1 on 1 defender, slips over like Webster and always has a mistake or 2 in him per game that cost games..

Can't recall one of those mistakes since the Port Adelaide game.

 

[EconomicDecline]

What gives you that suspicion?

Heard it from someone who directly said it to them.

 

[g_TRAIN]

Interesting that Crouch's knee is still not right, I wonder if it is a chronic issue? I cant believe Seb Ross can hold his position in the team after last weeks performance he was terrible?

Where does it say his knee isn't right?

Its just fitness, he's coming from a long way back. Watching the VFL game he was good but he wasn't chasing at all, just didn't have the tank

 

[gubby88]

Heard it from someone who directly said it to them.

his brother apparantly loves the club. mind you, there seems to be some "anti Ross" coterie types that love making waves

 

[gringo2011]

Heard it from someone who directly said it to them.

I wonder if the family thinks we've ****ed his brothers medical stuff? The old man played for Blues and Pies I think.

 

[austinnn]

The flaw with last time and this has now been evident by the modus operandi of all clubs since. Was that we thought having multiple first round picks would lead to success.

Top 10 picks is where a good list build starts. Top 5 if you are serious.

We had teen picks for Bj and McEvoy. Luke Delaney and crap for Dal

As the salary cap is currently positioned, which player of similar ilk has received an extension greater then our reported offer to Battle? Ralph and Twomey said we offered 6 years /800+k per season.

In 10 years that might be normal. I’m not sure that looks like normal salary for someone like Battle and I don’t see why we should be signing him up to any value to retain - there are better players who will come out of contract that will then want more and your starting base is 900k/1m. Thats not sustainable from a salary cap.

Hawthorn and clubs securing free agents are willing to overpay to land talent. It’s like us offering 1.5m to LDU/Weitering. They aren’t worth that much but you want to knock their existing club and others out of the discussion so that they are forced to walk for free.

“with our best back”. If people want to advocate for wins in a dead season - that’s up to them. On the same hand I’m sure you can appreciate the next to Impossible task that leaves us if we pull off a few unexpected wins.

You’re not landing the cream onball talent. That ones that exit front of stoppage. Kick a goal hit a target in f50. Open space for the rest of the team and get tagged to avoid hurting the opposition. Without that talent your not winning anything.

Maybe Josh stays. I’ve said multiple times I don’t know what he will do. Just what the talk is in Moorabbin and internally they don’t feel he is. Big ****ing jungle drums when Twomey and Cleary are talking he could go.

Again, Twomey is the best in the business. He hears the numbers and the real talk. He backed up what I said last week and called battle/band 1 compo a “watch”. That’s what the club believes is likely. It isn’t me making it up. I’m telling you what I’ve been told.

Is cooper or Arie the answer? No idea. I think Arie has something though.

I can tell you what isn’t the answer, another middle of the first round pick that doesn’t inject the talent and class we need onball.

It’s perfectly acceptable to look past the next 12 weeks and think a better future awaits if we accept our medicine this season.

Thanks for the considered answer, appreciated. You make a very good case.

 

[phantom13]

I wonder if the family thinks we've ****ed his brothers medical stuff? The old man played for Blues and Pies I think.

Yeh Trent. He coached me for a short while, really good bloke.

 

[Joffaboy]

I wonder if the family thinks we've ****ed his brothers medical stuff? The old man played for Blues and Pies I think.

Were they talking about Jagga or Hotton. Thought the OP was get a first for Hotton and then snag Jagga.
Then the other posters said he (Jagga) doesn't want to come to the club.

 

[Miha]

Crouch might actually be cooked?

 

[St Neil]

Unfortunately with 3rd party deals like Geelong's Cotton On/ Armstrong Creek real estate scam, the salary cap has become a bit of a toothless tiger.

We scrap the draft & every quality kid will be split between about 10 clubs.

And those clubs do not include us.

I have zero interest in going back to the 1980's.

Those things can easily be stamped out and detected. Easily. In the electronic age transactions can be easily traced and disclosure is far more transparent, both from an individual and corporate perspective.

The AFL could easily establish protocols that would quickly detect and snuff out shifty deals. If they wanted to. And establish punitive punishments for those clubs who cheated. It would be in their interest to do so with the Northern clubs.

The days of brown paper bags and wads of cash are gone. It’s a different world from the 80s. Cash may be legal tender but it is dying a prolonged death.

Plus recruitment in the 80s was restricted by zoning, and Saints had one of the weaker metropolitan and country zones. That was half of the problem, which created a downward spiral.

Anyway it’s not going to happen. Drafting is here to stay and it creates heaps of money and publicity for the AFL. They aren’t going to get rid of it. It fills in the gaps when there is a lull in the action on the field.

 

[tomjoad]

At least Max King should be happy to sign for $150k pa x 6 years after his last few seasons.

Hmm... that's a lot of money for a constantly injured witches hat

 

[SteeleSaints]

Where does it say his knee isn't right?

Its just fitness, he's coming from a long way back. Watching the VFL game he was good but he wasn't chasing at all, just didn't have the tank

RTB said his knee is not 100%, I watched his past 3 games, he had 12 tackles in last weeks game its nothing to do with fitness.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Those things can easily be stamped out and detected. Easily. In the electronic age transactions can be easily traced and disclosure is far more transparent, both from an individual and corporate perspective.

The AFL could easily establish protocols that would quickly detect and snuff out shifty deals. If they wanted to. And establish punitive punishments for those clubs who cheated. It would be in their interest to do so with the Northern clubs.

The days of brown paper bags and wads of cash are gone. It’s a different world from the 80s. Cash may be legal tender but it is dying a prolonged death.

Plus recruitment in the 80s was restricted by zoning, and Saints had one of the weaker metropolitan and country zones. That was half of the problem, which created a downward spiral.

Anyway it’s not going to happen. Drafting is here to stay and it creates heaps of money and publicity for the AFL. They aren’t going to get rid of it. It fills in the gaps when there is a lull in the action on the field.

You said it

If they wanted to stamp it out.

They don’t as it would hurt the rich & powerful clubs.

You’re also correct re zoning… we should have have the entire peninsula but Hawthorn had a stronger influence at VFL house & had it handed to them (along with Lethal, Dermie & co)


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[St Neil]

very well said,must be a lot of younger members i guess,maybe awoke to afl about mid 90s,seen 3 pre season flags,4 grand finals,19 wins in a row & some good times,life aint so bad they thinking,think again

carlton and hawthorn played in 22 grand finals between 68 and 95 between them,saints dees and dogs played in 2

ps add lions and swans to the list and it remains 2 & they aint what they were between 68 and 81/96

Look at the zones Carlton and Hawthorn we allocated from 1968 to 1985 had compared to what St Kilda and Melbourne had.

Zoning was the major problem. Clubs couldn’t recruit in Victoria outside their zone or they were charged with poaching. It was introduced in mid 1968 and those two clubs had the best zones gifted to them by the VFL until 1985. No rotation of zones. Look at the players they produced.

Hawthorn pinched Bayside and the Mornington Peninsula off us (thanks to lobbying from Ron Cook) and reaped Leigh Matthews, Kelvin Moore and Peter Knights the same year (1969). No coincidence on the timing.

Those 3 should have been St Kilda players. History’s sliding door moment. Blokes like Brereton and Mew kept bobbing up for them while the zones remained unchanged for almost 20 years by a compliant VFL. If a club had a crap zone then it was hard work.

We now have a form of zoning in place with these academies. That’s why they have to go. ASAP. To give everyone an equal chance.

 

[Saint Watto]

Just a few points:

• the "lets get a top 5 pick" strategy is problematic in one way: what happens if we don't get that midfield talent? We've already had reports that this is a deep draft with a low top end and not much drop off as the draft progresses.
• it certainly looks like the club's list strategy is "don't overpay for anyone under any circumstances until we are ready to really compete" (with Max King perhaps the only player this does not apply to)
• McEvoy was a good not great player. Still was at Hawthorn. The issue wasn't letting him go, it's what we ended up getting for him, and the fact he was apparently a leader
• I'm not enamoured by Hawthorn's talent. I think they are at that bit of development where the game plan is working and they're not rated highly enough by other teams to put real work into stopping them (it will happen soon though). North have a more talented list, but they are now in the habit of losing (which is why as a supporter of a sporting team that is built to win, I enjoyed last Saturday on at least some level - I like seeing my team win games of football)

Great post there TP.

 

[St Neil]

Crouch might actually be cooked?

He was injury prone before coming to us and his body has been reliable in recent seasons.

But I read somewhere that he has an ongoing issue with his knee. Don’t know if it’s true but if it is then it must be a concern.

 

[Miha]

But I read somewhere that he has an ongoing issue with his knee. Don’t know if it’s true but if it is then it must be a concern.

Read that as well, hopefully not the case

 

[Joffaboy]

He was injury prone before coming to us and his body has been reliable in recent seasons.

But I read somewhere that he has an ongoing issue with his knee. Don’t know if it’s true but if it is then it must be a concern.

He had a groin injury that was poorly rehab'ed. He was not injury prone.

He trained fully today, did not seem hampered.

 

[St Neil]

You said it

If they wanted to stamp it out.

They don’t as it would hurt the rich & powerful clubs.

You’re also correct re zoning… we should have have the entire peninsula but Hawthorn had a stronger influence at VFL house & had it handed to them (along with Lethal, Dermie & co)


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Eric McCutcheon. GM of the VFL. Oversaw the zones in 1968 that enabled the Hawks to get our zone.

It’s funny how he was on the podium after the 1991 GF to present stuff to the eventual Premier - Hawthorn.

Coincidence?

 

[jimmytigs]

Look at the zones Carlton and Hawthorn we allocated from 1968 to 1985 had compared to what St Kilda and Melbourne had.

Zoning was the major problem. Clubs couldn’t recruit in Victoria outside their zone or they were charged with poaching. It was introduced in mid 1968 and those two clubs had the best zones gifted to them by the VFL until 1985. No rotation of zones. Look at the players they produced.

Hawthorn pinched Bayside and the Mornington Peninsula off us (thanks to lobbying from Ron Cook) and reaped Leigh Matthews, Kelvin Moore and Peter Knights the same year (1969). No coincidence on the timing.

Those 3 should have been St Kilda players. History’s sliding door moment. Blokes like Brereton and Mew kept bobbing up for them while the zones remained unchanged for almost 20 years by a compliant VFL. If a club had a crap zone then it was hard work.

We now have a form of zoning in place with these academies. That’s why they have to go. ASAP. To give everyone an equal chance.

yep your right about that hawthorn stuff,but my comment had nothing to do with the academies,it had to do with people saying"scrap the draft"those people clearly dont remember life before the draft,or werent alive,so they better be coming up with something better than scrap the draft to fix things,

from 96 to 2023 hawks and blues 4 flags,saints dees and dogs 2,grand finals 6-5(not counting the draw)i think,i like things much better now than before the draft,then shall we dig up the wooden spoon stats 68-95 and 96 to 2023?i can say with certainty that blues and hawks were 0 68-95,dont need to search that one,i believe the saints had 7 alone
without the help of dees/dogs

spoon stats 0-12 6-3

 

[g_TRAIN]

RTB said his knee is not 100%, I watched his past 3 games, he had 12 tackles in last weeks game its nothing to do with fitness.

I took it that he meant he's in the mix, but it's not 100 percent certain that he would play.

Nothing about his knee was mentioned specifically.

Anyway, my guess is he gets a game in the seniors this week if not soon afterwards.

When I was watching his game on the weekend, I felt like he wasn't chasing once the ball was out in the open. He seemed a bit gassed, but it sounds like you perceived his fitness differently.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Watching Plugger every week was probably worth 3 Premierships

 

[PoppedCorn]

so jordan butts from the chardonnay sippers and lobb


hold me back