Review Cats drown Hawks by 36 points in Tommas 350

[devilsnap]

Does anyone know what got Stewart so angry just before half time?

Prob some frustatration with the poor Q2 and Hawthorn forwards being gutless little grubs.

The final straw that causes the tussle was Ginnivan giving Kolo a push after the Chol goal. Just the backlne general flying the flag for his troops.

[Around 0:40 of the video]

Lewis and Chol on a roll as late comeback leads to scuffle

Tensions spiral out of control as Mabior Chol and Mitch Lewis pile on the goals before their side gets stuck into Tom Stewart

www.afl.com.au

 

[foxdog50]

Another interesting point... The engine room
Parfitt 62%
Bruhn 63%

Of game time.. And both were our better players

 

[Mattttty]

I thought the umpiring and commentary around Ginnivan this game was really interesting. Prior to the final quarter, there was plenty of talk by commentators about how he is treated differently, unfairly.

The interesting part for me was how in the last part of the final quarter the commentators - confronted with a Ginnivan who kept diving, kept leaning, kept lifting his arm - completely changed their tune saying things like: 'well, I don't know what to think about it'.

The fact is, that's exactly what the umpires are faced with. And I feel for them. Players who dive put them in a difficult position: give a free where it may not be justified and give away a goal or let play go on and risk missing a free kick. I can see why they've been instructed to do the latter and I think most fans of all teams would support that approach in general: if in doubt, don't blow the whistle.

The truth is, it's hard not to be biased (how many Hawks supporters would have backed Ginnivan in prior years? I'd say it'd be close to zero). And with all honesty, I can see how many here would be pissed if this was Close or Stengle or Miers (granted, they don't duck, but admit that most of us would have a bias towards our own players). But looking at it from the umpires' point of view: this is surely the hardest game in the world to adjudicate, and players who try to milk free kicks make that job harder, and they have nobody to blame but themselves if they miss out on the occasional genuine free because of their own muddying of the waters.

 

[standupand]

Does anyone know what got Stewart so angry just before half time?

I don't know. But the umpire said something like "I saw it Tom" to try to calm him down, so I figure it was something physical rather than verbal, a cheap shot maybe not worthy of a report?

 

[BigCat1]

It was an all round positive day for me. I was told that was the end of the cats when we had no Stanley, Rohan, Dangerfield, Guthrie, Touhy, Bews, Selwood, Smith.

Not enough credit for mine.

These young Hawks are 5 years into thier rebuild. Their best players statistically yesterday were Worpel, Nash, Moore, Meek, Amon are already 25 plus. All of their key position players are 26 or more - Chol, Lewis, Frost, Sicily.

 

[CHAWKTS]

I'm hoping the low game time of Bruhn, Atkins and Parfitt has them fairly fresh for the Bulldogs match.

Clark had higher game time (70%), so maybe they'll consider resting him and giving Bowes a full game in midfield? I'd still be tempted to play all of them in some capacity, since Blicavs would be required to help Conway in ruck again (if they give him another shot). Clark as an impact sub?

Bulldogs don't have as many dangerous small forwards, so Mullin could have a rest:

FB: Z.Guthrie De Koning J.Henry
HB: Duncan Kolodjashnij Stewart

C: Holmes Bruhn Dempsey
FOL: Conway Parfitt Atkins

HF: Miers Cameron Close
FF: O.Henry Hawkins Stengle

IC: Blicavs Bowes O'Connor Mannagh Clark(sub)

It's a daunting midfield challenge but we did beat them with a similar midfield at Marvel last year.

I think you will need to squeeze 2E in. Maybe for a Dempsey or Clark (although not sure then who goes to sub).

Also wouldn’t be surprised if they switch Neale for Hawkins - having said that they frankly never rest Hawkins and I wonder if that is because he is actually better playing rather than resting? Certainly last few year history is that he moves better each week he plays

 

[CHAWKTS]

I don't know. But the umpire said something like "I saw it Tom" to try to calm him down, so I figure it was something physical rather than verbal, a cheap shot maybe not worthy of a report?

It was Ginnivin (surprise) having a cheap shot at Kolo (I think) while he was on the ground. That Hawks small forward line (ex Brust) will be hard to watch without anger for a long time to come

 

[Mr Meow]

I think you will need to squeeze 2E in. Maybe for a Dempsey or Clark (although not sure then who goes to sub).

Also wouldn’t be surprised if they switch Neale for Hawkins - having said that they frankly never rest Hawkins and I wonder if that is because he is actually better playing rather than resting? Certainly last few year history is that he moves better each week he plays

Agreed about Hawkins and stretching the Bulldogs defence is critical to us compensating for the midfield difference. So I think we just have to play him and basically guarantee that one or more of him, Cameron and Henry get off the chain.

About Tuohy it's a tricky one as he hasn't been terrible and he's been one of my favourites over the last 8 years or so.

In my head I still have this idea that a full strength side only fits one of MOC and Tuohy but I admit the MC makes me question if that's the case.

O'Connor still flicks between really assertive, encouraging games and ones you forget he's playing. But ultimately it would be too harsh to leave him out unless he really fell into a hole form-wise.

It could be time to rest Clark and Dempsey in the next couple of weeks, maybe one at a time. Although it's not my favourite move, starting as sub is a way they could do it for both.

In theory Bowes in for Clark who rests makes sense. But will we need that one extra midfielder against Bulldogs, given Blicavs will have to chop out in ruck again and Danger won't be back?

Tough times at the selection table.

 

[CHAWKTS]

This was my highlight of the game.

Nick Watson is my new least favourite player, has such a mouth on him for a kid with 0 wins and 2 goals 7 from 12 shots.

He has competition for that title in his own forward line. Going to be the only thing they have a shot at winning for a while

 

[foxdog50]

Gee I can't wait to watch Geelong play Hawthorn down Geelong later the year..
As I can't wait for the reception Ginnivan is going to get down there..

 

[CHAWKTS]

I thought the umpiring and commentary around Ginnivan this game was really interesting. Prior to the final quarter, there was plenty of talk by commentators about how he is treated differently, unfairly.

The interesting part for me was how in the final quarter the commentators - confronted with a Ginnivan who kept diving, kept leaning, kept lifting his arm - completely changed their tune saying things like: 'well, I don't know what to think about it'.

The fact is, that's exactly what the umpires are faced with. And I feel for them. Players who dive put them in a difficult position: give a free where it may not be justified and give away a goal or let play go on and risk missing a free kick. I can see why they've been instructed to do the latter and I think most fans of all teams would support that approach in general: if in doubt, don't blow the whistle.

The truth is, it's hard not to be biased (how many Hawks supporters would have backed Ginnivan in prior years? I'd say it'd be close to zero). And with all honesty, I can see how we'd be pissed if this was Close or Stengle or Miers (granted, they don't duck, but admit that most of us would have a bias towards our own players). But looking at it from the umpires' point of view: this is surely the hardest game in the world to adjudicate, and players who try to milk free kicks make that job harder, and they have nobody to blame but themselves if they miss out on the occasional genuine free because of their own muddying of the waters.

Do yourself a little experiment like I did yesterday - ask a Collingwood supporter about Ginnivan! Most now “see it”. He was a fan favourite but now they understand why he was disliked by other supporters.

To neutral supporters (to your point I suppose there are many of those) it is clear that everytime he gets the ball he tries to milk a free kick first… and the notion from commentators that he shouldn’t reap the consequences of that is silly. Of course the umpires should take into account things that players have done in the past when assessing the contest - it just makes sense…and therefore sometimes it is now going to go against him - they should stop blaming the umpires and blame the player

 

[Mattttty]

Prob some frustatration with the poor Q2 and Hawthorn forwards being gutless little grubs.

The final straw that causes the tussle was Ginnivan giving Kolo a push after the Chol goal. Just the backlne general flying the flag for his troops.

[Around 0:40 of the video]

Lewis and Chol on a roll as late comeback leads to scuffle

Tensions spiral out of control as Mabior Chol and Mitch Lewis pile on the goals before their side gets stuck into Tom Stewart

www.afl.com.au

It was a direct response to Ginnivan pushing Kolo over when he was on the ground trying to get up after the whistle had blown.

It was Ginnivin (surprise) having a cheap shot at Kolo (I think) while he was on the ground. That Hawks small forward line (ex Brust) will be hard to watch without anger for a long time to come

Yep. There's footage of it on one of the replay angles. Ginnivan goes up to Kolo who is getting up from the ground after the whistle blows and shoves him over. Stewart is right there and he throws Ginnivan to the ground. Walking away, the umpire tells Stewart that he saw what Ginnivan did. For me, it's another piece of proof that Ginnivan is his own worst enemy - when a player proves themselves to be dishonest and a bad sport, umpires see it and, consciously or not, build it into their adjudication of the game.

 

[Mattttty]

Do yourself a little experiment like I did yesterday - ask a Collingwood supporter about Ginnivan! Most now “see it”. He was a fan favourite but now they understand why he was disliked by other supporters.

To neutral supporters (to your point I suppose there are many of those) it is clear that everytime he gets the ball he tries to milk a free kick first… and the notion from commentators that he shouldn’t reap the consequences of that is silly. Of course the umpires should take into account things that players have done in the past when assessing the contest - it just makes sense…and therefore sometimes it is now going to go against him - they should stop blaming the umpires and blame the player

Exactly. 100% agree. And I like that experiment

 

[CatToTheFuture]

Do yourself a little experiment like I did yesterday - ask a Collingwood supporter about Ginnivan! Most now “see it”. He was a fan favourite but now they understand why he was disliked by other supporters.

To neutral supporters (to your point I suppose there are many of those) it is clear that everytime he gets the ball he tries to milk a free kick first… and the notion from commentators that he shouldn’t reap the consequences of that is silly. Of course the umpires should take into account things that players have done in the past when assessing the contest - it just makes sense…and therefore sometimes it is now going to go against him - they should stop blaming the umpires and blame the player

I think his action to try draw free kicks is really obvious too. The umpires just looks for the dart sideways and if there's no corresponding movement of the player tackling then it's really obvious. They just won't pay free kicks for him spontaneously falling on his side.

 

[Turkey Tom]

Good win, but uneven performance.

5 day break, and a wet slog in the last quarter are a bit of a worry. Plus some niggles. Be interesting to see how Jezza's ankle recovers.

Looks like Mitchell continues to do the Clarkson "unsociable Hawks" thing. They don't have the players to back it up though, may be a long year for them. If he coached them to concentrate on playing the ball and not diving, pushing etc. results may be better?

 

[cats_09]

Henry was excellent when the ball hit the deck and made some great running rebounds but I agree that defensively as it went on he was shaky.

I'm not too harsh on that but given how people were absolutely laying into a younger KPD (SDK) who actually improved as the game went on, it bares mentioning.

It was bit of a weird game for Jack yesterday - the good was really good, especially when there was those loose ball situations

But I'm not sure he'd walk away from the game as a happy camper - I thought there was large periods of the game where he was comfortably beaten/out-pointed by Chol in the one-vs-one battle, especially the aerial contests

I do believe there's times were we're more forgiving of some players compared with others - if it was Kolodjashnij or SDK, I think we read more comments about that battle during the match

 

[Willo_]

It was Ginnivin (surprise) having a cheap shot at Kolo (I think) while he was on the ground. That Hawks small forward line (ex Brust) will be hard to watch without anger for a long time to come

Bruest himself looks absolutely miserable having to play with them as well

 

[No Quarter]

OOC what was the average age of each team yesterday?

 

[STPer18]

OOC what was the average age of each team yesterday?

 

[Pollywaffle]

It was bit of a weird game for Jack yesterday - the good was really good, especially when there was those loose ball situations

But I'm not sure he'd walk away from the game as a happy camper - I thought there was large periods of the game where he was comfortably beaten/out-pointed by Chol in the one-vs-one battle, especially the aerial contests

I do believe there's times were we're more forgiving of some players compared with others - if it was Kolodjashnij or SDK, I think we read more comments about that battle during the match

Chol is a good player and a nightmare matchup for anyone when he is on.

 

[CHAWKTS]

Bruest himself looks absolutely miserable having to play with them as well

Yep…from all accounts he is a very good man. Plays the right way and has got the best out of himself - dare I say very “geelong like!” He must be hating this crew.

The comparison to the unsociable Hawks is silly. They played on the edge and were tough. I hated it but respected that they put body on the line and made you earn it (mostly - as I am typing I can think of a number of exceptions!)…anyway this version is real cheap shots…looking for free kicks…and gobbing off as smart a***** - without any really toughness.

The positive of it all is that it makes it easy to keep hating the Hawks

 

[Lana]

They were cutting us open really easily in the first half the first quarter, once we cut off that inboard kick, Hawthorn's plan fell apart, and we took full advantage though at times we had a bit of the luck of the bounce. They kept trying to go around rather than attempt to go through us. I think we are well drilled to cover the current rush forward at all costs meta from half half back.

I was really happy with how our undermanned inside midfield group performed. Bruhn ability to find the ball on the inside is very comforting for our future, it is giving me we'll have someone capable of leading our next inside group, him for pick 21 turning out to be a steal. Parfitt and Bowes gives our MC a lot of selection dilemmas. There isn't much between Atkins v Parfitt though I think that at most there is room for one. It seems that for now if fit the MC will persist with Clark ahead of those two. Once fully developed Conway transforms how our midfield can work, he isn't a Mark Blake

Mark Blake

Age

39

Ht

200cm

Wt

102kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

9.4

2star

K

2.5

1star

HB

6.9

4star

CL

1.7

4star

HO

19.1

5star

No current season stats available

D

7.0

2star

K

1.6

1star

HB

5.4

4star

HO

9.6

5star

style ruckmen, he was constantly try to put himself in good places behind the ball. Makes me wonder if they'll build up his body to be a monster or keep him a little lighter, he doesn't need to outmuscle his opponent to be effective at the stoppages. Our attacking intent around the ball went to shit when he and Bruhn played less late in the 2nd quarter.

Great game from O.Henry, teams have been putting their intercepting tall against him, Henry kept Sicily honest, got a couple of assists and apply a few good moments of defensive pressure. Z.Guthrie continues to do his great Stewart impression. Mullin moves really well, his acceleration is off the charts, his footy IQ just need to catch up., first time I thought it was worth fast tracking him.

I wish Holmes would look to the short option a little more, when he does his run and carry. Stengle played his best game in a while

 

[CHAWKTS]

Game was a bit meh but im glad we gave hawk a win.
Our good patches were really good our bad patches our midfield got owned and defence didnt handle it well.

Some postives i liked were
Bruhn was really good when its hot his clearancr work is what we need and hes developing more class away from the stoppage. Just needs to keep building the tank.
Dempsey was very impressive and is looking like hes here to stay. Interesting to see him play wing more-whether thats to solve our fwd line squeeze i dont know but he looks good as a link player.
I was very happy with clark (albeit he probably gets rested next week) and stengle looks like finding his old form.

Conway still clearly doesnt have the tank to be a full year first ruck (and thats a problem for us) but some of his ruckwork and skills is really promising.
I liked parfitt and kudos to him because i thought it was done. Its still a problem because as i said earlier in the week we still have too many similar mids and in particular parf and atkins are very similar..im not sure they can both fit together (and i doubt atkins is dropped)but we will see.

Negatives were sdk still looks very out of sorts, at times close was lazy and needs to lift or get dropped. Mullin was ok and we probably cant judge him until hes had 30 games but i dont see it.
We will need to rotate players given the 5 day break i wouldnt be surprised to see 4 or 5 changes again next week.

Good pick up. So last week seemed like last minute with two late outs and Mannagh in 22 - so let’s move him to Wing. He ended up top speed efforts and repeat efforts as well as in top group for running… and then again this week he is where you would hope a wing player goes in terms of running. And doing it playing 88% game time which shows he gives everything (he looks stuffed at times).

With our riches of forwards your instinct might be right that he becomes more regular on the wing. The only sad thing about that is that it makes it harder for Knevitt to push back in as Wing was his best chance?

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They were cutting us open really easily in the first half the first quarter, once we cut off that inboard kick, Hawthorn's plan fell apart, and we took full advantage though at times we had a bit of the luck of the bounce. They kept trying to go around rather than attempt to go through us. I think we are well drilled to cover the current rush forward at all costs meta from half half back.

I was really happy with how our undermanned inside midfield group performed. Bruhn ability to find the ball on the inside is very comforting for our future, it is giving me we'll have someone capable of leading our next inside group, him for pick 21 turning out to be a steal. Parfitt and Bowes gives our MC a lot of selection dilemmas. There isn't much between Atkins v Parfitt though I think that at most there is room for one. It seems that for now if fit the MC will persist with Clark ahead of those two. Once fully developed Conway transforms how our midfield can work, he isn't a Mark Blake style ruckmen, he was constantly try to put himself in good places behind the ball. Makes me wonder if they'll build up his body to be a monster or keep him a little lighter, he doesn't need to outmuscle his opponent to be effective at the stoppages. Our attacking intent around the ball went to s**t when he and Bruhn played less late in the 2nd quarter.

Great game from O.Henry, teams have been putting their intercepting tall against him, Henry kept Sicily honest, got a couple of assists and apply a few good moments of defensive pressure. Z.Guthrie continues to do his great Stewart impression. Mullin moves really well, his acceleration is off the charts, his footy IQ just need to catch up., first time I thought it was worth fast tracking him.

I wish Holmes would look to the short option a little more, when he does his run and carry. Stengle played his best game in a while

I like the call out Ollie Henry. I've loved the way he reads whether someone is likely to intercept mark against him and instead bring to ground to advantage. Seems something new to his game this year. Getting around the ground and dragging defenders out is something he looks to have improved on. Loved his tackle on Sicily too.

Atkins vs Parfitt is interesting. Atkins has runs on the board, but he was subbed off with only one kick to his name. It'll be an interesting read when the teams go up Thursday

 

[Gunf]

I like the call out Ollie Henry. I've loved the way he reads whether someone is likely to intercept mark against him and instead bring to ground to advantage. Seems something new to his game this year. Getting around the ground and dragging defenders out is something he looks to have improved on. Loved his tackle on Sicily too.

Atkins vs Parfitt is interesting. Atkins has runs on the board, but he was subbed off with only one kick to his name. It'll be an interesting read when the teams go up Thursday

Once we have Danger and Guthrie back i think it will come down to Atkins VS Parfitt VS Clark for that last midfield role