Preview Changes: R7 v Carlton

[Kane McGoodwin]

Rat had 28, Knight 17. Rat has no issue finding the ball, Knight does.

Knight was better than Atkins tonight easy.

But neither will be dropped.

 

[Scorpus]

For Scorpus , I'll explain the more likely scenarios, depending on injury status.

Sloane in for Polhoke
Kelly in for Mackay
CEY for Betts & we rotate our mids through the forward line.

I doubt all 3 will be ready to come in next week.

Also, Hartigan will come in for Otten but that is a few weeks away.

If Tex doesn't come up then we may rejig things.

I agree this is probably more likely. Although I'll go with these exact changes as a prediction for what we will do.

Out: Poholke, Mackay (injured)
In: Kelly, Betts

(Sloane rested another week)

However when it's all said and done, Knight isn't in my best 22.

B Brown - Talia - Doedee
HB Laird - Hartigan - Smith
C Milera - Gibbs - Seedsman
HF Lynch - Walker - Gallucci
F Betts - Jenkins - McGovern
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I B. Crouch - Douglas - Greenwood - Kelly

That would be total changes of:

Out: Otten, Knight, Ellis-Yolmen, Poholke, Mackay, Atkins
In: Hartigan, Betts, Sloane, B. Crouch, Kelly, Smith

Though obviously there are injuries and so forth preventing that from happening.

Considering the roles each player plays, Otten fills in for Hartigan, Atkins stays for Smith (Milera to half back), CEY stays to cover B. Crouch.... and then Mackay out for Kelly, Knight out for Betts and Poholke out for Sloane.

So what are you trying to prove?

Most mindless call for the week?

If you are going to make a prediction, surely it should be something that is possible as opposed to a completely crazy call to get noticed...

Knight out isn't a crazy call. See above; he's not in my best 22.

I'm not trying to prove anything either. I'm discussing who I think should be omitted for our returning stars.

 

[1970crow]

I'm not predicting the coaches' moves.

But I am interested in who you would drop to fit in our three returning best 22 players

Reckon neither tex or Mackay will be risked leaving Poholke to miss. That's my hope.

 

[pjcrows]

Pyke said it was he himself who took Tex off when it was only some very minor 'awareness'. They're just being ultra cautious. Rest him next week then bring him back for Port.

 

[Bicks]

They both seriously had that many touches? If you'd told me half as many for either I would have believed you more...

Knight does a hell of a lot gut running and pressuring/hassling on the ball carrier that goes a bit unnoticed by some, also one of the more aggressive hard nosed players on our list.....doubt he'll be dropped now he's back in.

 

[pjcrows]

Knight's not going out.

 

[Murray2503]

Out: Walker if inj Poholke omitted Otten omitted
In: Fogarty, Betts, Sloane if fit or Kelly if not.

Brown Talia Doedee
Laird McGovern Milera
Atkins Sloane Seedsman
Lynch Fogarty Knight
Betts Jenkins Gallucci

Jacobs Mcrouch Gibbs

Greenwood Douglas Mackay Cey

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Pyke said it was he himself who took Tex off when it was only some very minor 'awareness'. They're just being ultra cautious. Rest him next week then bring him back for Port.

All our injuries have been described by the club as very minor and only precautionary when they happen

 

[Squiba]

Knight does a hell of a lot gut running and pressuring/hassling on the ball carrier that goes a bit unnoticed by some, also one of the more aggressive hard nosed players on our list.....doubt he'll be dropped now he's back in.

Oh I'm well aware of his work around the ground, just at the game I didn't notice him nor Rat with ball in hand 17 and 28 times respectively.

Considering Milera only had 5 more touches than Rat, he had 3 times the impact with those touches by the eye test.

 

[pjcrows]

All our injuries have been described by the club as very minor and only precautionary when they happen

Not really. M Crouch and Betts they said they'll miss games straight up. When they announced Sloane out they said he won't be rushed. Betts and Sloane would've played tonight if it wasn't an easier team. Same with next week - they'll likely rest Tex and Sloane again against the 18th team. Doesnt mean they're significant injuries.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

What was our tally from set shots tonight?

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

What was our tally from set shots tonight?

Don't know but we need goal kicking training during the week as was bloody ordinary!

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

However when it's all said and done, Knight isn't in my best 22.

B Brown - Talia - Doedee
HB Laird - Hartigan - Smith
C Milera - Gibbs - Seedsman
HF Lynch - Walker - Gallucci
F Betts - Jenkins - McGovern
R Jacobs - Sloane - M. Crouch

I B. Crouch - Douglas - Greenwood - Kelly

My best 22, which assumes Smith is unavailable.

B: Brown, Talia, Doedee
HB: Milera, Hartigan (Otten), Laird
C: Seedsman, Mrouch, Gibbs (Atkins)
HF: Knight, Walker, Lynch
F: Betts (Gallucci), Jenkins , McGovern
R: Jacobs, Sloane (Douglas), Brouch
I: Kelly, Greenwood, Douglas, Gallucci

Compared to current side:
Hartigan - Otten
Kelly - Mackay
Sloane - CEY
Brouch - Atkins (could be Gallucci)
Betts - Polhoke

 

[Golumless]

Rat had 28, Knight 17. Rat has no issue finding the ball, Knight does.

17 is decent to good for an outside leaning midfielder/half forward rotation.

 

[Golumless]

They both seriously had that many touches? If you'd told me half as many for either I would have believed you more...

Atkins accumulates like crazy and has really developed into the type of player you don't notice a whole heap unless it's bad moments (and he has a few brain farts every game). Knight got involved a fair bit in that third quarter I think.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

17 is decent to good for an outside leaning midfielder/half forward rotation.

Except he had to run down to the back pocket to get chip passes from the kickouts to generate his numbers. I'd estimate that at least half his possessions were in the back half.

I like Knight but he had an average game.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

17 is decent to good for an outside leaning midfielder/half forward rotation.

Knight didn't hit as many GC players tonight compared to Sydney because he would be sore & saving himself for Port to go full kamikaze.

He did what he needed to & popped up for 2 goals.

He's not going to be dropped!

 

[Scorpus]

My best 22, which assumes Smith is unavailable.

B: Brown, Talia, Doedee
HB: Milera, Hartigan (Otten), Laird
C: Seedsman, Mrouch, Gibbs (Atkins)
HF: Knight, Walker, Lynch
F: Betts (Gallucci), Jenkins , McGovern
R: Jacobs, Sloane (Douglas), Brouch
I: Kelly, Greenwood, Douglas, Gallucci

Compared to current side:
Hartigan - Otten
Kelly - Mackay
Sloane - CEY
Brouch - Atkins (could be Gallucci)
Betts - Polhoke

Fair enough, pretty similar to my team except I put Smith in.

Personally I see Knight as a fringe player that's just outside our best 22 when everyone is available. I like his toughness and gut running but I don't think he does enough in the midfield or forward line to keep his spot over the other players I had in my side.

Playing as a wing/mid/forward he averages just 14.5 touches over 2017-2018, less than a goal per game, less than 1 clearance per game, just 1.4 inside 50s per game, just 171 meters gained. He does have good pressure acts, good tackle numbers (near 4 per game) and good score involvements (4.8 per game), but I just don't think our midfield can carry a mostly defensive gut running half forward that struggles to find the pill, doesn't kick many goals, and doesn't contribute when rotated onto the wing or into the inside midfield.

 

[Golumless]

Except he had to run down to the back pocket to get chip passes from the kickouts to generate his numbers. I'd estimate that at least half his possessions were in the back half.

I like Knight but he had an average game.

I wouldn't be surprised if he did get most of the ball down back seeing he wouldn't be playing as an outside/half forward as an primarily offensive threat (and he was most involved when we under siege in the third). Really he's there to help with defensive work and to add some more run to our side.

For the position 17 disposals is a solid to good return, and 2 goals helps his case. The issue is the player who could conceivably be his main rival for a position had a break out game in Gallucci.

 

[Golumless]

Fair enough, pretty similar to my team except I put Smith in.

Personally I see Knight as a fringe player that's just outside our best 22 when everyone is available. I like his toughness and gut running but I don't think he does enough in the midfield or forward line to keep his spot over the other players I had in my side.

Playing as a wing/mid/forward he averages just 14.5 touches over 2017-2018, less than a goal per game, less than 1 clearance per game, just 1.4 inside 50s per game, just 171 meters gained. He does have good pressure acts, good tackle numbers (near 4 per game) and good score involvements (4.8 per game), but I just don't think our midfield can carry a mostly defensive gut running half forward that struggles to find the pill, doesn't kick many goals, and doesn't contribute when rotated onto the wing or into the inside midfield.

Those numbers are on par to slightly better then most of the players who gets shunted to that half forward/wing spot in our line up as it's primarily a defensive position now for us, and a very limited midfield rotation. Milera and Hampton were around 12, this board was retiring Douglas off when he played there etc.

Knight does also have the advantage of being an option for the tag, should we go that route. An option that we really don't use enough.

 

[Scorpus]

Those numbers are on par to slightly better then most of the players who gets shunted to that half forward/wing spot in our line up as it's primarily a defensive position now for us, and a very limited midfield rotation. Milera and Hampton were around 12, this board was retiring Douglas off when he played there etc.

Knight does also have the advantage of being an option for the tag, should we go that route. An option that we really don't use enough.

Look I agree, we do have this weird defensive small half forward role that's been filled with players like Matty Wright over the years. The role famously described as "non-statistical".

Personally I don't like the idea of defense-only roles forward of half back (with limited exceptions for tagging). A player playing at half forward like Knight should be able to contribute by hitting the scoreboard, delivering inside 50 or winning the hard ball. Knight isn't really providing any of these factors on a consistent basis.

Defensive pressure and tackling for a small forward or really any midfielder should be a given and a requirement to play in the AFL, not a special attribute or something we need a designated role for

 

[Golumless]

Look I agree, we do have this weird defensive small half forward role that's been filled with players like Matty Wright over the years. The role famously described as "non-statistical".

Personally I don't like the idea of defense-only roles forward of half back (with limited exceptions for tagging). A player playing at half forward like Knight should be able to contribute by hitting the scoreboard, delivering inside 50 or winning the hard ball. Knight isn't really providing any of these factors on a consistent basis.

Defensive pressure and tackling for a small forward or really any midfielder should be a given and a requirement to play in the AFL, not a special attribute or something we need a designated role for

Whilst it is required for every player, there is also a specialized need for it in one or two positions in the forward line. For a zonal defense to work, you need a lot of pressure at and around the ball carrier and the best way to cause this pressure is to have one or two quick, super fit, super aggressive guys roaming half forward/midfield. It's a two fold trade off, it helps lock the ball in the forward line and it helps shut down the oppositions half backs which is where most if not all sides get the majority of their outside run from.

As a whole the half forward position is a defense first position now, as a means to counteract the rise of half backs as an attacking weapon (seeing most sides would have their best outside player as half backs now). An interesting reversal from the days a half back would be expected to defend the forward. Offensive production is now the bonus, much like having a half back that is actually capable of defending is a bonus.

This is especially true when considering that our forward line isn't exactly blessed with fast players, and we do play tall. Thus making this is a necessary positional sacrifice for that structure to work, and for a player who sits in that 18-22 list spot, a worthwhile sacrifice.

 

[Scorpus]

Whilst it is required for every player, there is also a specialized need for it in one or two positions in the forward line. For a zonal defense to work, you need a lot of pressure at and around the ball carrier and the best way to cause this pressure is to have one or two quick, super fit, super aggressive guys roaming half forward/midfield. Especially considering our forward line isn't exactly blessed with fast players, and we do play tall, this is a positional sacrifice for that structure to work. Equally sides do tend to have some of their most prominent outside pieces in defense which can see a side quickly exposed if this is not up to scratch.

As a whole the half forward position is a defense first position now, as a means to counteract the rise of half backs as an attacking weapon (seeing most sides would have their best outside player as half backs now). An interesting reversal from the days a half back would be expected to defend the forward.

I don't see why a player can't provide these defensive attributes in a specialized role while also contributing offensively

 

[Golumless]

I don't see why a player can't provide these defensive attributes in a specialized role while also contributing offensively

Because it's not as important to contribute offensively then it is to do the defensive work.

The offensive production acts to separate the role players from the stars in that position.

 

[Punchy Bassett]

Forget the Fog for now.. he's been average the past two weeks in the SANFL

Hence my Himmelberg statement