Coaches Under Pressure for 2011

[Rodgerramjet]

In order;

1. Ratten - Carlton need better leadership, Rats wont keep the guns at bay for another year - Gawn.

2. Worsfold - another repeat and it's over

3. Neil Craig - Surrounding himself with second hand assistance, the end is nigh.

4. Voss - Will be given as much chance as humanly possible, would need to be an unmittigated disaster for him to be sacked, having said that, an unmittigated disaster is not without a chance.

5. Clarkson - Kennett may actually be stupid enough to sack this bloke if it doesn't go to his liking. Clarkson should just walk out. Adelaide or West Coast would give him serious consideration.

6. Dean Bailey - Needs to start delivering the goods. Todd Viney is waiting in the wings. Its now or never Dean.

7. Mark Harvey - Who knows, should hold for a bit longer yet.

8. Brad Scott - North are in love with him, wont be going anywhere.

9. Chris Scott - Will not want the Cats to crash and burn, Geelong are still a quality side, needs to make the eight to keep the equilibrium.

10. Matthew Primus - can blame a lot onto Mark Williams this year but that'll dry up about round 10 if Port don't show signs of getting better.

11. Longmire - Will be given time and space.

12. Damien Hardwick - Will not be sacked, Richmond gave up sacking coaches 10 years ago, to much bad PR.

13. Eade - The dogs will not sack a coach that is getting them into the finals every year let a lone a preliminary final. Safe as houses.

14. Ross Lyon -Best coach the Saints have had since 1966 isn't going anywhere.

15. James Hird - Given every chance, will be treated as a protected species for the first 24 months.

16. Guy McKenna - Guy who? Will get no media attention.

17. Mick Malthouse - Has no pressure or fear of loosing position, already knows his fate - Gawn

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Well you were able to justify Melbourne's favourable draw when it pointed out.

no i was able to provide a reason why they weren't going to try and bury us in the first few weeks... that may or may not be that actual reason

i can't explain why they would give us an easy draw and richmond not, did you honestly expect me to???

should we look at the Bulldogs start shall we??? 8 out of the first 12 games you boys played were at Etihad, 2/12 were at the G and only two were interstate.... against the fearsome Lions and Swans (which Melbourne flogged both of btw) in fact the bulldogs only had 6 interstate games for the whole H&A season

sure melbourne's is similar... i think we only played 5 interstate games

but both the WB's and Melbourne number of interstate games really doesn't matter, the majority of teams are Victorian FFS and in regard to melbourne playing at the G, well.... 4 teams (including melbourne obviously) share the G as their home ground, so its bound to happen

 

[jim boy]

Hird is and isn't under pressure.

Agree that Hird isn't under pressure, but by the same token, I'd say he is the most likely to simply walk away from it. He hasn't really shown a great desire to be a coach and seems rather swept up in the romantic notion of the white knight coming back to rescue his old club. Reality is going to hit hard when his family life is curtailed, his business interests withered and his having to deal with internal politics that are part and parcel at every club.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

How about Hagdorn, Langdon and Quatermaine? Or Ross Lewis? Even after Fremantle's decent start to the year, he still found time to put the boot in while the Eagles languished.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/opinion/post/-/blog/rosslewis/post/621/comment/1/

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/opinion/post/-/blog/rosslewis/post/539/comment/1/

Not saying Freo don't deserve some skepticism and scorn for their history, but it reached pretty ridiculous heights at times this year. By contrast, the pressure was well off Worsfold.

Langdon, Bell etc at least have some AFL background of success to dish out cracks.

However you are arguing a completely different point.

I have no issue if Caro, Mike or WA journos have a crack at Worsfold - or the club - but that's a far cry from having them being a driving factor in club decisions.

Good to see though that you could rattle up the articles so readily though

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Agree that Hird isn't under pressure, but by the same token, I'd say he is the most likely to simply walk away from it. He hasn't really shown a great desire to be a coach and seems rather swept up in the romantic notion of the white knight coming back to rescue his old club.

C'Mon - you thnk he would throw away multi-million dollar deals to coach his club because of the romance?

Reality is going to hit hard when his family life is curtailed, his business interests withered and his having to deal with internal politics that are part and parcel at every club.

No doubt - but he knows the deal- he has been there and seen it. Why is he any different to any other coach?

As for internal politics - you really don't get the effect this guy has had ont he club. He is as close to royalty as they get - politics will not be an issue for at least 1 and half seasons. All he has to do is get us to play more as a team and not leak goals and no one will have an issue with him.

Hird is not crazy Vossy - he is calculating and knows how to run a business.

It is his ability to change the gameplan that will be his hardest challenge.

 

[CursoryMercenary]

Do explain this.

Not so much the start but during the season when they went through a rough patch there were questions.

 

[RockyBalboa]

C'Mon - you thnk he would throw away multi-million dollar deals to coach his club because of the romance?


No doubt - but he knows the deal- he has been there and seen it. Why is he any different to any other coach?

As for internal politics - you really don't get the effect this guy has had ont he club. He is as close to royalty as they get - politics will not be an issue for at least 1 and half seasons. All he has to do is get us to play more as a team and not leak goals and no one will have an issue with him.

Hird is not crazy Vossy - he is calculating and knows how to run a business.

It is his ability to change the gameplan that will be his hardest challenge.

So does Rupert Murdoch-why don't you appoint him coach!

Hird is an egomaniac who will be a disaster- You just had to love his reasons when he got the job-I watch 8 games of footy a week for foxtel! Well so do I!

He aint going to repair that trainwreck of a midfield they have

 

[rose jam]

C'Mon - you thnk he would throw away multi-million dollar deals to coach his club because of the romance?

.

Absolutely, that's exactly what he is doing. He has gone from absolute zero interest in coaching to wanting to come in, be the white knight and rescue his club. It's admirable, but without the natural internal drive to want to lead men and sacrifice every other part of your life pretty much, it's just not going to a natural thing for him.
He'll soon realise once the losses mount up what he is in for. He'll get the darling ride for 1 year, but Essendon is a pretty decent basket case of a list at the moment, so watch in 2012 for the pain to come Jimmy.

 

[SinCitySainter]

Hird is under no pressure what so ever.

He could dry hump Terry Daniher in the car park at Windy Hill in front of the Ladies Auxiliary and the board would still go "That's our James, gotta love him the scamp."

 

[Slattery_20]

He hasn't really shown a great desire to be a coach and seems rather swept up in the romantic notion of the white knight coming back to rescue his old club.

I don't get this. He couldn't - for obvious reasons - come out publicly and say "I wanna coach" while Knights' was still there.
He's put a lot (millions possibly, and his reputation) on the line to do this.
You could just as easily say Chris Scott hasn't shown a great desire to coach. I've never heard him say he wanted to be a senior coach.
If anything, given he's most likely on better coin at the Cats, he's not even giving anything up.

Agree there's a bit of a white knight about it, but that doesn't mean he's not sacrificing a lot.

 

[sgbn77]

The only pressure Hird is under is pressure on his character. If, for arguments sake, a premiership coach was hired into Essendon, and they lost most of the games that season, but were switching players around and trying new styles....it'd be expected. Fans would say "watch out for next year". The pressure Hird will face is simply (if he was to lose a lot of games) people questioning whether he has any idea on how to coach.

He certainly won't be under pressure from those within Windy Hill or the fans...it's the Caro's and SEN callers mostly. So disregard!

I think Worsfold is under pressure. Certainly.

I think Ratten and Clarkson are under pressure, but that could be alleviated with a good start. If their clubs are meandering, then that's when the warnings will appear.

There's a different pressure for Scott (Geelong one) and Longmire, but not the sackable kind.

 

[sgbn77]

I don't get this. He couldn't - for obvious reasons - come out publicly and say "I wanna coach" while Knights' was still there.
He's put a lot (millions possibly, and his reputation) on the line to do this.
You could just as easily say Chris Scott hasn't shown a great desire to coach. I've never heard him say he wanted to be a senior coach.
If anything, given he's most likely on better coin at the Cats, he's not even giving anything up.

Agree there's a bit of a white knight about it, but that doesn't mean he's not sacrificing a lot.

I do buy your point about not being ABLE to say it publicly, and you would certainly know more about it, but to us average plebs, it did seem to happen suddenly. Would you agree?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Agree that Hird isn't under pressure, but by the same token, I'd say he is the most likely to simply walk away from it. He hasn't really shown a great desire to be a coach and seems rather swept up in the romantic notion of the white knight coming back to rescue his old club. Reality is going to hit hard when his family life is curtailed, his business interests withered and his having to deal with internal politics that are part and parcel at every club.

you don't think he understands those risks? Do you think it's something you know could happen but doesn't, he's just swept away in romance?

 

[The Donners]

Absolutely, that's exactly what he is doing. He has gone from absolute zero interest in coaching to wanting to come in, be the white knight and rescue his club. It's admirable, but without the natural internal drive to want to lead men and sacrifice every other part of your life pretty much, it's just not going to a natural thing for him.
He'll soon realise once the losses mount up what he is in for. He'll get the darling ride for 1 year, but Essendon is a pretty decent basket case of a list at the moment, so watch in 2012 for the pain to come Jimmy.

I haven't seen as much shit on BF outside of the Bay.

Jim Boy - complete rubbish.

 

[brjafi]

Neil Craig - Only pressure is to do better than 2010 and that wont be hard, Adelaide are better than what happened to them this year. If they get of to an equally bad start as they did, he may be gone.

Michael Voss - I think the brisbane board dont really care wether or not he fails, they just love to see his face in the box. Still living in the past.

Brett Ratten - Has to have a better finals series than he ever before, or question marks will be raised. Not in any real danger.

Mick Malthouse - Safest coach in the world right now!!!

James Hird - Another Voss type of deal, he's safe even if he fails.

Mark Harvey - Safe, has turned the club into a top 4 finals team, they will make it again in 2011.

Chris Scott - Definately under pressure, has expectations from the fans that has seen one of the most succesful teams in recent times, should be cut some slack with the major changes.

Alastair clarkson - always under pressure since the slump after winning the 08 final as underdogs. oressure will remain.

Dean Bailey - Some pressure, after so long down the bottom for years the dees had a great year in 2010 and have risen. the rise is expected to continue and thats where the pressure lays with dean. I personally think he will be safe as the dees can only get better.

Brad scott - definately safe, had a great 1st year as coach and like melbourne i only see the roos rising up the ladder.

Matthew Primus - no pressure, 1st official year and no real expectation that i know of (port supporter put input here).

Damien Hardwick - under pressure, has his own expectation. Needs to finish 12th or 13th to be on track under his own expectations. If the tigers start as well as they finished, he will be fine.

Ross Lyon - definate pressure, grand final win or fail, there is nothing else for him to acheive.

Paul Roos - no pressure, no explanation needed.

John Worsfold - Definate pressure, has been such a great coach, successful. The eagles of 2010 looked nothing like a side under the influence of a champion.

Rodney Eade - Pressure, has to make a grand final and win it. Another prelim final loss and you would think he is under some black magic.

Guy Mckenna - no pressure, he has jesus on his side.

 

[The Goon]

Voss will be safe next year, and probably the year after as the Lions look to surround him with some more experience in the coaching panel. BUT, if the Suns finish above the Lions next year all bets are off, and it's a real possibility.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

So does Rupert Murdoch-why don't you appoint him coach!

Hird is an egomaniac who will be a disaster- You just had to love his reasons when he got the job-I watch 8 games of footy a week for foxtel! Well so do I!

He aint going to repair that trainwreck of a midfield they have

hey! did you read my other post??? HEY! you know....

 

[Slattery_20]

I do buy your point about not being ABLE to say it publicly, and you would certainly know more about it, but to us average plebs, it did seem to happen suddenly. Would you agree?

I would, but I'm not surprised when the situation is taken into account. Let's drop the naievete, he probably gave assurances he would take the job, well before Knights was sacked.
But couldn't do it publicly. Working out the exact shape & make-up of the panel around him was probably the biggest hold-up.
It was done quick and it was done clean. Vastly better than the last time, dead-duck trying to prove his relevance over the last quarter of the season. (And still going today).

If, for arguments sake, a premiership coach was hired into Essendon, and they lost most of the games that season, but were switching players around and trying new styles....it'd be expected.

If he's smart he will do that anyway.
While the risk is admittedly greater, the strike rate for experienced & highly rated coaches going around again isn't much above average. Pagan/Carlton; Terry Wallace/Tigs.
Get the right players fit, and believing in what they're doing, you're 95% of the way there.

 

[folester41]

if hardwick doesnt have us playing that competitive brand of footy that we showed in the second half of the season, the media and the fans wont give him an inch!

 

[mark73]

if hardwick doesnt have us playing that competitive brand of footy that we showed in the second half of the season, the media and the fans wont give him an inch!

Yes but that's just typical Richmond. That's why there is often a standing joke about who'd want to coach them. They now have a guy who may, if he is given the opportunity, turn things around.

Bringing up Longmire is hardly worth responding to. Likewise Bailey given the Melbourne board have seen improvement and you'd have to think understand where they're coming from.

The thing against Craig is the expectation they'd go up the list, not down. They also fielded a yound side and have had injuries but they were expected to progress up the ladder and went down. He's also been in the gig since 2005.

Clarkson could be in trouble given outside of their top 4 or 5 they have a lot of rubbish, and Kennett is their President - a loose cannon in the decision making, as we all found out in 1999 when the votes started dropping, but they did win a flag, albeit surprisingly in 2008.

I can't see Brisbane worrying for too long about what Voss did as a player if he produces a similar year next year. The contracts, the backended ones in particular, and the length of them are the worrying thing for Brisbane, along with the exodus.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

Absolutely, that's exactly what he is doing. He has gone from absolute zero interest in coaching to wanting to come in, be the white knight and rescue his club. It's admirable, but without the natural internal drive to want to lead men and sacrifice every other part of your life pretty much, it's just not going to a natural thing for him.

Interesting - so you are saying he is an idiot - as idiots get caught up in romance and give away job security and personal security.

He'll soon realise once the losses mount up what he is in for. He'll get the darling ride for 1 year, but Essendon is a pretty decent basket case of a list at the moment, so watch in 2012 for the pain to come Jimmy.

Another Nostradamus - of course the losses will mount up. After all - Essendon has the worst list in the AFL and will finish bottom. I mean really crap teams beat St. Kilda, Carlton, W Bulldogs and Hawthorn (all top 8 teams). Not to mention the core list also has beaten the previous season Freo, Colingwood and Sydney. But hey - it must be totally crap.

We may not be top 8 next year, but the unless we suffer a bad injury run or have trouble adapting to defending, I will be suprised if we have another 2010. Half a season of players trying to get rid of the coach - bad signs but also perhaps over-states the issues with the list.

 

[Pevers-Legend]

So does Rupert Murdoch-why don't you appoint him coach!

Last time I checked - Hird was a 2x AFL Premiership player and Murdoch a business man. Correct me if I'm wrong but that has f'all to do with my point.

Hird is an egomaniac who will be a disaster- You just had to love his reasons when he got the job-I watch 8 games of footy a week for foxtel! Well so do I!

Care to back this up with facts or just your opinion. So you have been involved with AFL clubs? No? Been asked to help at training sessions? No? .....

He aint going to repair that trainwreck of a midfield they have

It's not good and is an area he needs to improve. But then why is he definitely not going to improve it? Do you know something everyone else doesn't?

 

[citizen-erased]

Craig - not so much. crows finished off strong and blooded a lot of good kids towards the end that yielded results. if a similar poor start repeats itself, he may have a little scrutiny, but losing the list of veterans he did in 2010 should buy him some time.

Voss - wheels came off with injuries to brown & fev. take dominant 2 forwards out of any team and see what happens. needs to get skill level up from mid-tier players. should be safe for all of 2011 unless they totally trail off

Ratten - needs the next step. if the blues dont crack top 6 next season it will be disappointing. if they are out of finals contention or look to be, could have it ramped up.

Malthouse. well. no pressure for position. if they start poorly with a premiership hangover, could buckley takeover mid season? doubtful

Hird - first year, lots of list management. no way i can see it happening

Harvey - just re-signed though was on the back of a good showing after years of poor results. has the team, the kids, the gamebreakers to put a good show in.

Scott - first year with a cats dynasty that could go either way. not going to be sacked one way or the other

McKenna - not in first year but first year at afl level. will be given the time though

Clarkson - i think he has the faith of board and players. did amazing things in 08 to win the flag. hurt by cats dominance but i cant see any other team who can match the pies vigour and clarkson has them amped up nicely.

Bailey - after years of criticism, the plan took shape in 2010. needs a little more time and faith and i think he's about to deliver a good era at the dees. if they dont push top 8 though, he would feel some pressure

Scott - Second year coach who took a team on in leaps and bounds in first year. could be making of a brilliant coach.

Hardwick - see Scott. got the tigers playing footy. been a while.

Lyon - Saints have been pushing for years and the cattle is there. Lyon is a good coach but has failed to deliver on 3 GF occasions, and the prelim the year before. has to feel pressure if a club with riewoldt, goddard, hayes, dal santo, montagna and the most miserly defence in the land cant win a flag in 3 attempts.

Longmire - takes over the Roos dynasty as long time 2IC. may not be given the same latitude as other first year senior coaches. cant see pressure in first year though

Worsfold - safest bet though they are in rebuild phase. will be a test for the WC board to make a call on whether someone else can do better. this is a guy who developed the likes of Judd, Embley, Fletcher, Kerr, Cox and so forth and has a flag under his belt. has a lot of young cattle with potential to repeat his mid-decade success

Eade - my bet. dogs window isnt getting bigger. stars are there. good all over the ground. just dont have the consistency/focus to dominate. Like the eagles, dogs board need to make the hard call on whether there is a better coach out there. Eade is a master tactician and hard task master. Suffers a lot like Lyon in that they seem to fall down once the ball goes forward despite a good looking fwd line on paper.

My tips
2 job losses - i think Eade & Worsfold may come under pressure. I think Worsfold has the history and the list potential to justify a poor season. Eade not so much.
Vossy has to be feeling it and if they finish bottom 4 i think he could be in trouble. Worst thing to happen to lions would be if any of Gold Coast, Essendon, Eagles or Tigers happen to leapfrog them.

 

[4#Didak#4]

1. Worsfold - only for so long can low standards be tolerated, needs some results.

2. Craig - expectations are up and last year excused, no finals means no job.

3. Ratten - the rumblings are there, if the Blues start poorly a mid season coup would not surprise.

4. Clarkson - Once again expectations can be the worst enemy of a coach, another middling season and Jeff will be looking elsewhere.

5. Voss - Would be #1 at any other club but seems to have a gold pass, even so there is only so much embarresment a club can take.

 

[mjr_42]

As I thought, you couldn't explain it.
I am merely ponting out just what a charmed start to the year you had, after which you proceeded to win 1.5 of your next 8, yet felt no heat because you won early games after your favoured draw and the stynes factor.

The point?

You aren't as good as you think you are. I would love to know how many wins you think you would have had if you ha Richmod's first 8 games?

Your coach is entering his fourth year and must make the finals with the greatest young list in the history of sport, if you want to believe the crap pedalled in the media lead by Garry Lyon

Yet you neglect to acknowledge that Melbourne's record in its last eight games was 4-4 with percentage of more than 108. That included three interstate trips in six weeks.

Couple that with the relatively strong start, an improved execution of the game plan, good performances from talented young players and you have several reasons for optimism about the Demons.

All that comes without mentioning the fact that Melbourne was desperately unlucky to lose to your Bulldogs early in the season and its results against eventual premier Collingwood were a last-minute two-point loss and a draw. Both of which provided further evidence for optimism.

FWIW, I had set a pass mark for 2010 at eight wins. Eight and a half wins, coupled with some more good games against the contenders, had me reasonably satisfied that the necessary progress had been made from the previous two years.

An "easy" start to the year is neither here nor there. Sure it helps to build memberships but that's not what's at issue here.

The reason punters, fans and commentators are buoyant about Melbourne is because of what they saw on the field in 2010, not because of any perceived "easy" start or AFL favours.