Drugs in Sport - Surely not us?

[Sanecow]

If it turns out to be "widespread" as in ever team is doing it, then meh maybe they should improve their testing strategies. I would love to see the drugs allowed olympics, it would be sensational.

 

[replicant]

Since this story broke, all i can think is "Please not the Swans".

I expect we have been target tested. After all, we keep making finals and won the big dance, and we seem to turn rejects from other clubs into better players. That sort of form improvement would make us a target i would suspect.

For now, i suppose all we can do is just keep reading the news, and keep our fingers crossed.

 

[Bonz]

We would be silly to assume it is not us. It very well could be. We have always managed to keep players on the field, resulting in a number of consecutive games records. We dont seem to suffer from soft tissue injuries. Our medical/conditioning department is the envy of the AFL.

Sydney has for years had a cutting edge football department, one that looks for advantage anyway they can. Let's hope they have been working within the rules.

Fingers crossed

This is actually the part that is of greatest confort to me!!!

A known side effect of peptites is soft tissue injuries (And not just looking at Essendon here as well, Look at the old Chinese athletes previous olympic games).

As well as that a few of my friends are body building types and they have all had several hamstring or calf injuries since taking those products (Admittedly at the same time they wouldn't be getting the same conditioning or quality of product as full AFL clubs though).

 

[RW]

If it turns out to be "widespread" as in ever team is doing it, then meh maybe they should improve their testing strategies. I would love to see the drugs allowed olympics, it would be sensational.

"We were just taking a lesson from Major League Baseball. It's not cheating if everyone does it".

 

[MushroomRocket]

Spot on DG, bulking up isn't everything.. for one being able to play the game very well will beat pure size every time, I think what you are suggesting is the stamina ones that will give more of an advantage to the way our game is played these days. I remember the super fit brownlow medalist Aker suggesting years ago that his West Coast opponent must have been on something because he had him well covered the previous time they played but this time he just kept running and running off him all the time, super human like. I think it was EPO. As much as most don't like the loud mouth it doesn't automatically make his educated observations wrong.. However he did retract the statement for legal reasons.. That was 10yrs ago, in modern science terms.. that was ancient times imagine how far its improved and how much harder to detect.

Ill give a little on my experience with certain 'supplements'. I use them but I don't play a professional sport but I like to keep fit, I still train pretty hard for an old fella. Importing laws from overseas can be very strict in Aus but are a little more lenient in NZ. Then importing from NZ to Aus is even easier.. Certain banned substances are readily available if you know what youre doing. With banned 'products' all they do is change one ingredient to one with similar effects not on the banned list and off you go again, by the time the legislation process goes through to ban that product, one ingredient is changed again, re branded and it just keeps rolling.
I guess you could call it cutting edge stuff.

1. Aker was correct 100% stamina and endurance matters way more than physical attributes in AFL since you have to last 4 quarters at a very high energy level.

2. Sure the drug testers will actually find out that you are cheating, but cant actually fine you because it is below the limit of detection .
If the new "molecule" is very similar or indistinguishable using MS then biochemists usually use NMR or enzymatic methods to figure out the "cheating" drug.

It is quite easy to catch the cheat if he/she is using a new drug, say in 6 months to year (since most scientists who do this deal with 1000x more complex stuff). The biggest problem is proving it in a court of law, where near 100% certainty is needed to prove doping/ illegal performance enhancement.

Unlike using chemicals, blood doping and gene doping are much harder to detect since you are in effect using your own "body" to dope, which is quite ironic and funny. To a biochemist EPO is quite literally ancient history and nearly every one in the scientific community knows that the gear modern "sportsmen" (start at overpaid Americans and Europeans) use are designed by the biochemists themselves to avoid detection (thank the lawd for all that money).

 

[alanlau34]

2 of the speculated clubs were from Queensland where Dank have worked in the past.

If so, then the third surely has to be WC *Cousins* *cough*

 

[SM]

If so, then the third surely has to be WC *Cousins* *cough*

Cousin was not on PEDs, at least, hasn't been exposed to have been.

 

[Arwib]

Per the SMH:




Good news

I don't think the cops care about legal but WADA-banned PEDs

 

[alanlau34]

Cousin was not on PEDs, at least, hasn't been exposed to have been.

More the fact the they have turned a blind eye in the past

 

[Sketi]

Call me naive but I personally think there is no way anything like this could have been administrated at the club, our fitness/coaching staff are way too professional. At most a tiny ratio of individual players but nothing organised.

Seeing Paul Roo's on the news last night speaking out with conviction against it and a "name and shame" attitude also added to my already high confidence. The logic, practicality and professionalism oozing from the statements and methods our training/fitness/coaching staff is unparalleled.

Doing so is an extremely stupid thing to do. We are famous for not being stupid. Extremely unhappy and surprised to be proven wrong.

 

[Sketi]

P.s Reid is still tiny.

 

[vonn]

Call me naive but I personally think there is no way anything like this could have been administrated at the club, our fitness/coaching staff are way too professional. At most a tiny ratio of individual players but nothing organised.

Seeing Paul Roo's on the news last night speaking out with conviction against it and a "name and shame" attitude also added to my already high confidence. The logic, practicality and professionalism oozing from the statements and methods our training/fitness/coaching staff is unparalleled.

Doing so is an extremely stupid thing to do. We are famous for not being stupid. Extremely unhappy and surprised to be proven wrong.

What do you mean proven wrong? This makes it sound as though Sydney are involved in this?I thought it was all speculation at this stage.

 

[B Diddy]

Even something as seemingly innocent as this makes for worrying reading these days...

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-02-05/the-double-life-of-ryan

Swans could get on the front foot and submit to team blood testing and publish the results for all to see.

 

[scottwade]

What do you mean proven wrong? This makes it sound as though Sydney are involved in this?I thought it was all speculation at this stage.

I believe he means IF he is proven wrong.

Swans could get on the front foot and submit to team blood testing and publish the results for all to see.

That, IMO, would set a dangerous precedent (for the players) and as it is not presently permitted under the Collective Bargaining Agreement it would require the players' consent and I'd imagine, given the current circumstances, the AFLPA would strongly advise against it.

Also the club cannot be sure that all our players would test clean.
Do we want one of our players potentially banned for 2 years when no other clubs have submitted their players to the same testing regime?

 

[vonn]

I'm super nervous.

Whilst our history gives us confidence, to believe that it will make us immune is stupid. I want a statement from the Club...

 

[grimlock]

I don't see how the club can produce a statement categorically stating that none of the players are involved, they just wouldn't have the full picture at hand at the moment. It would be immensely embarrassing if they were to do so, and then have the ASADA investigation reveal that there were Swans involved.

Nervous times ahead.

 

[lamby]

Call me naive but I personally think there is no way anything like this could have been administrated at the club, our fitness/coaching staff are way too professional. At most a tiny ratio of individual players but nothing organised.

Seeing Paul Roo's on the news last night speaking out with conviction against it and a "name and shame" attitude also added to my already high confidence. The logic, practicality and professionalism oozing from the statements and methods our training/fitness/coaching staff is unparalleled.

Doing so is an extremely stupid thing to do. We are famous for not being stupid. Extremely unhappy and surprised to be proven wrong.

We had Craig and Charlie Walsh as coach and fitness advisors - responsible for winning cycling gold medals during the East German drug era. We were known for very fit and strong teams.

I would be VERY surprised if it was not us :-(

 

[vonn]

It doesn't have to be about the innocence. Just what's going on, are Sydney being investigated? Some news at all.

 

[Gongswan]

I had a friend who did training up to Olympic coaching level. We used to train together sometimes. Both of us have poor genes for muscle gain and left it too late in life. He used some steroids and the results were noticeable. It was obvious with most that were using them at our gym.

When I saw Essendon at the beginning of last year it was noticeable how much weight many of them had put on. I have noticed it with the odd Swan. However you are talking about guys at the right age for rapid muscle gain and many are going to have the right genes. So although I'm pretty sure there's been some cheating going on, it could be good genes, youth, right training regime and right diet.

I still can't understand how they do rapid muscle gain while increasing aerobic capacity because my understanding was that the two don't go together (you have to cut back on aerobic training to put on muscle?)

Not necessarily, but AFL players do a lot of running which is a high impact excersise and high impact breaks down muscle mass. If you did your aerobic training on a bike or elyptyical runner, no impact

 

[scottwade]

We had Craig and Charlie Walsh as coach and fitness advisors - responsible for winning cycling gold medals during the East German drug era. We were known for very fit and strong teams.

I would be VERY surprised if it was not us :-(

One good bit of news, the Crows actually knocked back Danks when he approached them in 2006.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/adelaide-crows-dodge-bomber-bullet/story-e6frg6n6-1226572120404

ADELAIDE Football Club refused to deal with Stephen Dank - the man at the centre of the AFL drug scandal - rejecting his advances in 2006 when he put forward genetic testing proposals and gimmicky products.

The Advertiser can reveal Dank was a Masters student of AFL sports science expert Professor Kevin Norton at the University of New South Wales.
Norton has worked extensively as a consultant with the Crows and warned a club committee against any involvement with Dank's methods

"Dank finished his Masters with me in the 1990s. He came to the Crows a few years ago and I suggested they don't go near him," recalled Norton, now Professor of Exercise Science at UniSA.


"It was genetic testing which appeared to be gimmicky, costly and to no obvious benefit and that was what my opinion was to the club.
"They wanted ridiculous money, hundreds of dollars for each test.
"It wasn't just the idea it was going to be expensive but it was crossing the threshold where I was comfortable.
"Some clubs fell for it. I have since recommended people avoid him."

At least your club did a bit of due diligence on the guy.

 

[RW]

No clubs have been named yet (other than Essendon), so we'll just have to sit patiently and wait for things to come out I guess. As Grim said, nervous times ahead unfortunately.

If we are clean, then it's a bloody great effort by the medical staff, given that we won the flag when all of this was supposedly going on.

 

[cherub]

No clubs have been named yet (other than Essendon), so we'll just have to sit patiently and wait for things to come out I guess. As Grim said, nervous times ahead unfortunately.

If we are clean, then it's a bloody great effort by the medical staff, given that we won the flag when all of this was supposedly going on.

i am partly reassured by the fact that the fitness staff have never been incredibly high profile at Sydney. Dave Misson was certainly rated, but any statements have usually come from the physio, Matt Cameron or Nathan Gibbs. I would be confident that there was no systemic use of illegal supplements given the size, age and commitment of the leadership group. Nobody can answer for individuals.
How could 12 players be injected at Essendon without the coach's knowledge?

 

[Michaelg]

You can say it here too, as long as you make it clear it is just your opinion and you aren't claiming it as indisputable fact.

So you can then be sued for libel. A few years ago there was a thread regarding Dale Lewis's comments about recreational drug use among Swans players. There were some seriously defamatory statements on that thread, and they're all still there. Any defamation lawyer looking for some work could do worse than check it out.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/does-dale-lewis-have-any-credability.28705/

 

[Michaelg]

We would be silly to assume it is not us. It very well could be. We have always managed to keep players on the field, resulting in a number of consecutive games records. We dont seem to suffer from soft tissue injuries. Our medical/conditioning department is the envy of the AFL.

Sydney has for years had a cutting edge football department, one that looks for advantage anyway they can. Let's hope they have been working within the rules.

Fingers crossed

If the lack of soft tissue injuries is an indicator of drug use, how do you account for Essendon?

 

[Michaelg]

No clubs have been named yet (other than Essendon), so we'll just have to sit patiently and wait for things to come out I guess. As Grim said, nervous times ahead unfortunately.

If we are clean, then it's a bloody great effort by the medical staff, given that we won the flag when all of this was supposedly going on.

Well yes, but I'm far from convinced that these things really work in a sport like ours where the emotional component of performance and the role of team spirit are so important. These substances can really mess with that part of the psyche.