Drugs in Sport - Surely not us?

[Maddhew]

If the lack of soft tissue injuries is an indicator of drug use, how do you account for Essendon?

because not all PEDS are the same. A lot of what has been reported has been around substances that aid recovery.

 

[Bloodz2005]

In time this will all wash through, however there is a massive der factor here, there have been more than enough sound bites regarding drugs for years, AFL took the ostrich approach and put in the Mickey Mouse 3 strikes with loop holes strategy, was always piss weak and up for exploitation.
Dale Lewis bought this up many years ago and was pretty much run out of town, at that time I knew there was some validatity other wise he wouldn't have bought it up,
For now let's not get paranoid about our club,
I'm confident in our values as a club to do anything so underhand and untoward , however with 40+ players on a list to think we have no issues even singular would be naive.

 

[swansfan51]

So you can then be sued for libel. A few years ago there was a thread regarding Dale Lewis's comments about recreational drug use among Swans players. There were some seriously defamatory statements on that thread, and they're all still there. Any defamation lawyer looking for some work could do worse than check it out.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/does-dale-lewis-have-any-credability.28705/

"Any defamation lawyer" would probably need to look pretty hard for work if they didn't know that there's no such thing as libel in Australian law.

To get this thread back on topic, Mitch Morton is very suspicious. After not playing in a single final for 7 seasons with 2 clubs suddenly he played well in 3 finals in one year including a Grand Final!

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Personally I believe essendon will be the only team to be caught with a club level "supplement" clinic.

Personally I look at swans players I would be more then just shocked if our players at individual regularly used PED to get an edge, it just goes against the team culture more then anything else.

All that said we can not rule out certain players feeling the pressure to perform particularly if said players had recently been injured or finding keeping up the team difficult.

They may have resorted to PED to aid in the recovery of an injury or possibly used as a "once off" here or there when they started to drop in form or their spot was in doubt.

 

[legend166]

I'm pretty sure we're okay, but if we were in an alleged Essendon type situation whereby there was a mass doping program going on, I'd be cancelling the membership and asking for my money back.

In terms of players to be suspicious of, I think any player who has their best year in their 30s is suspicious. Obviously not a hard and fast rule, but it's just weird when that happens.

 

[Ed_Gein]

One player we know that won't be on PED's is Grundy.

 

[Arwib]

Swans could get on the front foot and submit to team blood testing and publish the results for all to see.

Would prove nothing.

 

[Maddhew]

Personally I believe essendon will be the only team to be caught with a club level "supplement" clinic.

Personally I look at swans players I would be more then just shocked if our players at individual regularly used PED to get an edge, it just goes against the team culture more then anything else.

All that said we can not rule out certain players feeling the pressure to perform particularly if said players had recently been injured or finding keeping up the team difficult.

They may have resorted to PED to aid in the recovery of an injury or possibly used as a "once off" here or there when they started to drop in form or their spot was in doubt.

This is getting embarrassing

 

[Sydney Bloods]

This is getting embarrassing

Do you Really think a team as close nit as ours wouldn't know if someone was on the gear on a regular basis?

And given all the talk about how hard it's been for some of our players to break into the side do you believe the playing group particularly the leadership group would accept a regular user into their ranks?

 

[vonn]

Just because we're supporters we shouldn't be to the point of being naive. As 'great' as our 'culture' and previous records are, that isn't going to be the sole determinant of anything. Besides, I don't like the whole putting our club 'culture' above any other teams. At the end of the day we only think that it is so damn great because of media sensationalism about it and we are biased towards Sydney. Whether or not it is, it's arrogant to presume that other clubs are vulnerable and we are immune because it's been covered a lot, especially post GF, in relation with us. Honestly none of us really know how close the playing group is, or anything like that.

 

[baja]

1. Aker was correct 100% stamina and endurance matters way more than physical attributes in AFL since you have to last 4 quarters at a very high energy level.

2. Sure the drug testers will actually find out that you are cheating, but cant actually fine you because it is below the limit of detection .
If the new "molecule" is very similar or indistinguishable using MS then biochemists usually use NMR or enzymatic methods to figure out the "cheating" drug.

It is quite easy to catch the cheat if he/she is using a new drug, say in 6 months to year (since most scientists who do this deal with 1000x more complex stuff). The biggest problem is proving it in a court of law, where near 100% certainty is needed to prove doping/ illegal performance enhancement.

Unlike using chemicals, blood doping and gene doping are much harder to detect since you are in effect using your own "body" to dope, which is quite ironic and funny. To a biochemist EPO is quite literally ancient history and nearly every one in the scientific community knows that the gear modern "sportsmen" (start at overpaid Americans and Europeans) use are designed by the biochemists themselves to avoid detection (thank the lawd for all that money).

Good post interesting reading.. However my shared experiences were more about the legalities of importing and consuming of 'banned' supplements, like I said I don't play a professional sport so I couldn't give two hoots to testing but I do know my body very well.
Back on the subject of illegal 'PED's" that our league is cracking down on you will find that there is a huge culture of participants in ALL of the amateur comps, also with recreational gym users and wannabe gangsters these days.. I see them all the time, flexing in the mirror surprised at their own gains but most of them have pea hearts and are weak as piss.. Its as easy as purchasing weed. The big announcement that they dramatically came out with that has rocked the football world wont affect the trade one bit, perhaps it will even fuel it more.

P.s, also liked your use of all those big words, they gained the attention of my occipital lobe and the process stimulated my frontal lobe, my cerebellum thanks you.

 

[Maddhew]

Do you Really think a team as close nit as ours wouldn't know if someone was on the gear on a regular basis?

And given all the talk about how hard it's been for some of our players to break into the side do you believe the playing group particularly the leadership group would accept a regular user into their ranks?

This is my point mate

Don't you think Bombers fans would have said the same thing?

Hird, Bomber, Jobe, Fletcher are all (at least on face value) stand up guys too

 

[SM]

One player we know that won't be on PED's is Grundy.

If he was, I'd be scared to see how much worse he could be.

 

[B Diddy]

Would prove nothing.

Do you mean because the tests might miss the peds they'd be supposedly taking? It would go a long way to reassuring a lot of paying members like myself that the swans want no part of this issue and have nothing to hide.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

This is my point mate

Don't you think Bombers fans would have said the same thing?

Hird, Bomber, Jobe, Fletcher are all (at least on face value) stand up guys too

Thats not what I'm talking about, whenever a player moves to the swans they talk about how the team is closer due to them not having a support structure outside of the club, they discuss how their support structure becomes the club how their only mates in sydney are teammates, club officials etc.

Hird and co maybe stand up blokes but that doesn't mean they are involved in their players lives as much as what happens at the swans (and most likely the lions as well)

Sure the bombers have a support structure mostly likely a good one but it's unlikely for the majority of players to be their only one, that is the team culture I'm talking about and that's why some players find it tough to break into the squad it's not just what you do at training or on the field.

Your always at the club or with people from the club (be them player or officials) and so it's harder for you to do things that the club won't know about.

The bombers problems don't fall into the category of individual players using on a regular basis, this is club endorsed and facilitated rorting of the sports science department.

What I'm saying is that I don't believe the way the club functions that individuals doping on a regular basis would not go unnoticed at our club like it could at other clubs and I don't believe it could be as easily overlooked.

I don't rule out that some our players may use PED I just find it unlikely that it could occur on a regular basis given
A the closeness of the club
b how hard it is to breaking into the squad.

Now obviously if it's a bombers situation where the entire team is involved all that's out the window.

but like I said, I can't believe it could happen at any club let alone the swans. I can scarcely believe it happened at the bombers and I'm not convinced it did.

 

[Michaelg]

"Any defamation lawyer" would probably need to look pretty hard for work if they didn't know that there's no such thing as libel in Australian law.

To get this thread back on topic, Mitch Morton is very suspicious. After not playing in a single final for 7 seasons with 2 clubs suddenly he played well in 3 finals in one year including a Grand Final!

To take it back off topic, I used the word defamation. Surely you are not suggesting there's no such thing as defamation in Australian law?

 

[MF]

but I do know my body very well.

No one is surprised by this.

 

[Membling]

No one is surprised by this.

Nothing wrong with this. Just kind of sad that no one else knows baja like he knows himself

 

[scottwade]

Nothing wrong with this. Just kind of sad that no one else knows baja like he knows himself

There's only one solution;

 

[Membling]

There's only one solution;

Or:

 

[JBSwan]

Drugs in Sport
You better believe it.

Surely not us?
I really Hope Not.

 

[replicant]

from The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/what-the-afl-clubs-say-on-doping-20130208-2e4i3.html

Fairfax Media asked each AFL club the following questions:

1. Have any of your club officials or players been interviewed or contacted by the Australian Crime Commission or police acting on ACC intelligence?
2. Do your players take supplements or vitamins orally or by injection?
3. Do you require players to sign waivers, consent forms or non-disclosure agreements regarding any such treatments?
4. Advertisement
   Do your players undergo injections or intravenous treatments administered by staff other than qualified medical personnel?
5. Are you confident organised criminals have not infiltrated your club?
6. Are you confident your players and staff have not acted illegally?

SYDNEY SWANS SPOKESMAN

1. We are not aware of any club official or player being interviewed or contacted by the ACC or police. We are fully supportive of the AFL stance on protecting the integrity of our game and would fully cooperate with any investigations if required.
2. Like most elite athletes, our players do take approved vitamins and supplements in consultation with our dietician and club doctor.
3. No.
4. No. All treatment is overseen by our club doctor.
5. We have no reason to believe organised crime has infiltrated the club.
6. We are confident in our policies and procedures and have no reason to believe our staff or players have acted illegally.

 

[CAS79]

from The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/what-the-afl-clubs-say-on-doping-20130208-2e4i3.html

Fairfax Media asked each AFL club the following questions:

1. Have any of your club officials or players been interviewed or contacted by the Australian Crime Commission or police acting on ACC intelligence?
2. Do your players take supplements or vitamins orally or by injection?
3. Do you require players to sign waivers, consent forms or non-disclosure agreements regarding any such treatments?
4. Advertisement
   Do your players undergo injections or intravenous treatments administered by staff other than qualified medical personnel?
5. Are you confident organised criminals have not infiltrated your club?
6. Are you confident your players and staff have not acted illegally?

SYDNEY SWANS SPOKESMAN

1. We are not aware of any club official or player being interviewed or contacted by the ACC or police. We are fully supportive of the AFL stance on protecting the integrity of our game and would fully cooperate with any investigations if required.
2. Like most elite athletes, our players do take approved vitamins and supplements in consultation with our dietician and club doctor.
3. No.
4. No. All treatment is overseen by our club doctor.
5. We have no reason to believe organised crime has infiltrated the club.
6. We are confident in our policies and procedures and have no reason to believe our staff or players have acted illegally.

Great direct answers. Some clubs got lost in the bluriness or Carltons were short shrifting.

 

[vonn]

This fills me with more confidence.

 

[Sketi]

Just because we're supporters we shouldn't be to the point of being naive. As 'great' as our 'culture' and previous records are, that isn't going to be the sole determinant of anything. Besides, I don't like the whole putting our club 'culture' above any other teams. At the end of the day we only think that it is so damn great because of media sensationalism about it and we are biased towards Sydney. Whether or not it is, it's arrogant to presume that other clubs are vulnerable and we are immune because it's been covered a lot, especially post GF, in relation with us. Honestly none of us really know how close the playing group is, or anything like that.

h8er.

Some call it naivety, I call it faith.

P.s I find the extra level of closeness/mateship within the playing group pretty plain to see regardless of media hype, observing us and other clubs. I also think we are pretty darn fortunate to have had 2 such pragmatic head coaches over the last decade. Maybe I'm just as one eyed as they come.