Analysis Hawthorn rebuild: are they tanking?

[sr36]

Next year is absolutely about wins and a better performance though. The leadership group are already motioning that they will be pushing each other to challenge for finals on the back of the second half of 2023, as they should. Those performances should absolutely become the baseline in the search for consistency.

Thankfully the coach and players don't want to indulge in the "softly softly, we'll limit our expectations on each other and just gradually improve" mantra, as that's quickest way to go nowhere.

To achieve the baseline, you just need to find a way to replicate top teams being miles down on their running data ...

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

To achieve the baseline, you just need to find a way to replicate top teams being miles down on their running data ...

Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarter won between Round 10-24, and in that time played 8 games against the eventual finalists(Saints twice), plus Dogs and Tigers.

You're suggesting that we only got the better of these teams because they weren't trying? Or are we trotting out the tried and true bigfooty-ism of "heavy training loads".

 

[Rob R]

Thread has to be renamed north Melbourne for 2024

Not really, there was a question about whether Hawthorn was rebuilding or tanking, there is no doubt North are tanking. Throw their only half decent kpd (and ruck but at least he was old) out and not bother trying to get decent talls in trades or early in the draft just more mids.

On SM-A125F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[sr36]

Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarter won between Round 10-24, and in that time played 9 games against the eventual finalists(Saints twice), plus Dogs and Tigers.

You're suggesting that we only got the better of these teams because they weren't trying? Or are we trotting out the tried and true bigfooty-ism of "heavy training loads".

You didn't get the better of most of those teams.

 

[hawkman]

You didn't get the better of most of those teams.

We started the season 1-8 with a percentage of 60. The last 14 games we went 6-8 with a percentage of 95. I am sure the club will be measuring themselves against that period as the baseline rather than the season record

 

[Blackhawk42]

You didn't get the better of most of those teams.

Beat 4 of the top 9 sides during that period.

It's just shy of half.

 

[hawkman]

Hawthorn were 9th in the comp for Quarter won between Round 10-24, and in that time played 9 games against the eventual finalists(Saints twice), plus Dogs and Tigers.

You're suggesting that we only got the better of these teams because they weren't trying? Or are we trotting out the tried and true bigfooty-ism of "heavy training loads".

8 games against eventual finalists. Didn't face Sydney

 

[theiaofseed]

You didn't get the better of most of those teams.

Last 11 rounds of the year Hawthorn defeated Brisbane, Collingwood, Saints, Bulldogs, lost to GWS by 13 points and kept Melbourne within 10 points the whole day until the last 10 minutes while missing Newcombe, Lewis and Wingard. Could've easily defeated 6 of the top 9 teams during that period.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Last 11 rounds of the year Hawthorn defeated Brisbane, Collingwood, Saints, Bulldogs, lost to GWS by 13 points and kept Melbourne within 10 points the whole day until the last 10 minutes while missing Newcombe, Lewis and Wingard. Could've easily defeated 6 of the top 9 teams during that period.

Swap Saints out for North. We lost to the Saints by 29 points in R20.

 

[sr36]

Last 11 rounds of the year Hawthorn defeated Brisbane, Collingwood, Saints, Bulldogs, lost to GWS by 13 points and kept Melbourne within 10 points the whole day until the last 10 minutes while missing Newcombe, Lewis and Wingard. Could've easily defeated 6 of the top 9 teams during that period.

So you're saying that I'm right and that you didn't get the better of most teams in that block?

 

[Caligo]

So you're saying that I'm right and that you didn't get the better of most teams on that block?

We sure got the better of both grand finalists. And neither game was close.

 

[peetoo]

We sure got the better of both grand finalists. And neither game was close.

The famed Collingwood fourth quarter comeback never materialised.

Mind you hawks win 8/10 v collingwood or brissy at the mcg

 

[Caligo]

The famed Collingwood fourth quarter comeback never materialised.

Mind you hawks win 8/10 v collingwood or brissy at the mcg

I do wish we could play Collingwood every week.

 

[sr36]

We sure got the better of both grand finalists. And neither game was close.

You smashed us. I wouldn't read too much into it though.

 

[peetoo]

You smashed us. I wouldn't read too much into it though.

As in my post, we usually do

 

[H00t]

Next year is absolutely about wins and a better performance though. The leadership group are already motioning that they will be pushing each other to challenge for finals on the back of the second half of 2023, as they should. Those performances should absolutely become the baseline in the search for consistency.

Thankfully the coach and players don't want to indulge in the "softly softly, we'll limit our expectations on each other and just gradually improve" mantra, as that's quickest way to go nowhere.

The club should absolutely be pushing for the highest goal possible without limits. They need to be looking to push themselves to the absolute limit.

Doesn’t means supporters will have the same expectations. Expectations follow performances and despite an uptick towards the end of the year the club hasn’t been performing to a very high level yet.

 

[theiaofseed]

Last 11 rounds of the year Hawthorn defeated Brisbane, Collingwood, Saints, Bulldogs, lost to GWS by 13 points and kept Melbourne within 10 points the whole day until the last 10 minutes while missing Newcombe, Lewis and Wingard. Could've easily defeated 6 of the top 9 teams during that period.

4 of 6 isn't most? What would your definition of most be then?

 

[theiaofseed]

You smashed us. I wouldn't read too much into it though.

OFC that would your opinion, let me guess Collingwood were going easy? Was that before or after they spit the dummy?

 

[sr36]

OFC that would your opinion, let me guess Collingwood were going easy? Was that before or after they spit the dummy?

Our running data was easily our worst of the year in terms of kms covered, sprints and differential. For some reason we had no energy and also lost centre square clearances 18 to 3 - something that is incredibly rare no matter how bad or good your midfield is. Plus as Peetoo pointed out, Hawthorn always beat us.

 

[Caligo]

Our running data was easily our worst of the year in terms of kms covered, sprints and differential. For some reason we had no energy and also lost centre square clearances 18 to 3 - something that is incredibly rare no matter how bad or good your midfield is. Plus as Peetoo pointed out, Hawthorn always beat us.

The midfield battle seemed extraordinarily one sided.

 

[FB19]

The midfield battle seemed extraordinarily one sided.

apart from the 2 diabolical teams at the bottom and pleasingly the dons final 2 rounds, in the second half of the year winning and losing to all sides was based on smaller margins than Normal. It was one of those exceptional days pies seemed a bit off and we were totally switched on - in fact several posters had said it had been setup as a sort of grand final for us. Probably worked for both clubs; did nothing to stop pies charge to the flag and may have been the loss needed, gave us further belief in our direction and enormous joy for us after a tough start to the year.
To answer the question, we haven’t tanked this time I don’t believe we ever have and I don’t think we ever will. Thank god as history has not been on those sides side.

 

[sr36]

apart from the 2 diabolical teams at the bottom and pleasingly the dons final 2 rounds, in the second half of the year winning and losing to all sides was based on smaller margins than Normal. It was one of those exceptional days pies seemed a bit off and we were totally switched on - in fact several posters had said it had been setup as a sort of grand final for us. Probably worked for both clubs; did nothing to stop pies charge to the flag and may have been the loss needed, gave us further belief in our direction and enormous joy for us after a tough start to the year.
To answer the question, we haven’t tanked this time I don’t believe we ever have and I don’t think we ever will. Thank god as history has not been on those sides side.

Yeah, I think Sicily's brilliant ball use in particular helped to expose some weaknesses in our zoning that needed to be tightened up.

P.S. I think both Collingwood and Hawthorn did some tanking back when you got an extra early pick if you won less than 5 games in a season, but there's no longer much benefit.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

The club should absolutely be pushing for the highest goal possible without limits. They need to be looking to push themselves to the absolute limit.

Doesn’t means supporters will have the same expectations. Expectations follow performances and despite an uptick towards the end of the year the club hasn’t been performing to a very high level yet.

The intriguing BigFooty paradox is that the very posters who work hard to quell expectations are also the same ones who will take every loss really poorly.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Yeah, I think Sicily's brilliant ball use in particular helped to expose some weaknesses in our zoning that needed to be tightened up.

P.S. I think both Collingwood and Hawthorn did some tanking back when you got an extra early pick if you won less than 5 games in a season, but there's no longer much benefit.

Will be an interesting revisit in a few years time if this Hawthorn side proves they're capable of winning a premiership.

You could trace the belief back to that game against Collingwood. For the Pies, it's possible that this loss helped tighten some defensive issues (as you mentioned) which ultimately lead to the 2023 flag.

Both teams could look back on the same day in 2023 as the catalyst for premiership glory.

I remember the Bulldogs beating Sydney at the SCG early in 2015 and that felt like the day the next generation believed their destiny was possible.

 

[TerryWallet]

Bottom 4 in '24 kinda has an apt ring to it.