Mega Thread List Changes, Drafting, Trading & Rookie Thread

[Waspy79]

Not so keen on Moloney, but as a free agent it seems a low risk acquisition.

 

[Macca19]

Depends how much we'd be paying him really.

 

[Jumbo]

........ and for how long rohdey signs him up for?

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Reading Knightmare's Phantom Draft, he has us getting Dean Towers with our second rounder.

Looked him up - he's a mature ager from the VFL (22 years old), who is a tall, pacey outside mid in the mould of Isaac Smith. Sounds like something we need, plus being a mature ager, can slip into the team pretty quickly. Mature age mids taken with high draft picks have been working out lately (Ballantyne, Isaac Smith), so it's definitely interesting.

Plus his name is DEAN TOWERS. That name is amazing! And if we go down the path of replacing a Chad with a Chad (which seems to be working out really well!), then replacing a Dean with a Dean just seems perfect.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

Need Dean Towers just for his name please

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

Need Dean Towers just for his name please

Exactly. And even if it means we have to use the term "Port Power", Port Power's Dean Towers has such a lovely ring to it.

 

[Adz2332]

isnt there a rumour Thomas wont be with us next year. so Moloney might be a good pick up.

 

[Portia]

OK so, this is where I officially start doomsaying. Sorry, but there's already a few incidators that this years draft is going to be disappointing.

* Article a week or so ago saying SA has a `bumper crop' of guys likely to go in the top ten. No superdraft has this happen; as a group, SA is the Tom Logan of state juniors. Typically if we seem great, its because everyone else is struggling.
* Add the bit Bernie Nips just mentioned: Being linked with mature players in the second round by draft lovers. These guys love juniors, and are always willing to talk up a gangly tall forward who can't play a set position as being a `CHF/CHB James Hird type', and they think clubs are going for mature guys in early second round.
* We know that some gun players have been removed from this draft year with GWS concessions (O'Meara, Crouch). It would be astounding if there were any genuine guns outside the top 3 now; even if we get pick 5, it'll be speculative. Also don't forget Viney is definitely getting removed.
* Draft profiles where almost all the talls look highly speculative apart from Grundy. Good drafts have good talls.

We'll know for sure the draft is rubbish in trade week when we see what players go for picks, but yeah...not good. Crap .

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

OK so, this is where I officially start doomsaying. Sorry, but there's already a few incidators that this years draft is going to be disappointing.

* Article a week or so ago saying SA has a `bumper crop' of guys likely to go in the top ten. No superdraft has this happen; as a group, SA is the Tom Logan of state juniors. Typically if we seem great, its because everyone else is struggling.
* Add the bit Bernie Nips just mentioned: Being linked with mature players in the second round by draft lovers. These guys love juniors, and are always willing to talk up a gangly tall forward who can't play a set position as being a `CHF/CHB James Hird type', and they think clubs are going for mature guys in early second round.
* We know that some gun players have been removed from this draft year with GWS concessions (O'Meara, Crouch). It would be astounding if there were any genuine guns outside the top 3 now; even if we get pick 5, it'll be speculative. Also don't forget Viney is definitely getting removed.
* Draft profiles where almost all the talls look highly speculative apart from Grundy. Good drafts have good talls.

We'll know for sure the draft is rubbish in trade week when we see what players go for picks, but yeah...not good. Crap .

Well in regards to the mature age thing... 2008 was a superdraft. No doubt about it. Everyone agrees. Hayden Ballantyne went at Pick 21 as a mature ager in a superdraft. So wipe that off your list!

 

[Portia]

Well in regards to the mature age thing... 2008 was a superdraft. No doubt about it. Everyone agrees. Hayden Ballantyne went at Pick 21 as a mature ager in a superdraft. So wipe that off your list!

No no no, I'm talking about predictions, not actual drafting.

eg. AFL Phantom Draft had Ballantyne at #37.

 

[Asgardian]

We need new players who have not been battered from pillar to post, not only for their skill sets, but also for their attitudes & confidence levels, after all, our players have taken too many shots to the old noggin.

With this in mind my preference is for players from the more successful clubs over the past 5 years or so, these blokes will come with a positive spirit, which we desperately need.

This a generalisation and exceptions to the rule must be viewed on their merits, but as a starting point I believe it is valid.

 

[Honeyboy Wilson]

No no no, I'm talking about predictions, not actual drafting.

eg. AFL Phantom Draft had Ballantyne at #37.

Well things have definitely changed with how well mature agers have gone from recent drafts, so that'll definitely affect predictions. There's not THAT much difference between Dean Towers projected at #28 and Ballantyne at #37.

 

[Portia]

In a weak draft, I agree. Kinda the point.

In a strong one? Heaps.

 

[The Smaller Warrior]

Towers at #1

 

[Doctor Feel]

I hope we are still pursuing Montagna, would much much rather him over Moloney. Same age bracket though which is bad.

It seems we must be pursuing someone in the 28 year old bracket, wonder why.

 

[Oliver King]

I think Montagna just signed a new deal.

 

[Asgardian]

I hope we are still pursuing Montagna, would much much rather him over Moloney. Same age bracket though which is bad.

It seems we must be pursuing someone in the 28 year old bracket, wonder why.

To qualify for free agency the player has to be around that age bracket, doesn't he?

 

[Phhht]

Hes a good player and id take him, but im not sure hes the player we need to be honest. Ialways see him as the player I thought Matt Thomas would become....a hard nosed inside mid who can win plenty of the ball and win plenty of clearances.

Hes gonna be 29 before he plays a game, hes only played 20 games or more in a year 3 times in 10 years and I highly doubt we'd get 4 'good' years out of him...maybe 40 games i reckon.

Im also not sure that hes the player we should be targetting. Our contested possession and clearance rating is actually quite good. Where we struggle is inside 50s (3rd bottom) and disposal efficiency (bottom). Im not sure that getting another inside mid is going to help improve our disposal efficiency which is what kills us at the moment.

As I said, i'd take him, but if hes going to be our trump card signing, then we've been barking majorly up the wrong tree.

I feel that whilst the numbers look good, its the quality of our clearances/hard ball gets that really makes us suck balls. I have seen far too often this year in particular, our group of average inside mids work hard to get a clearance or contested possie. Thats great but when you follow the quality of that clearance its where I reckon we get hurt more than anywhere else on the ground.
If we can improve the quality of our inside work to get clear concise clearances to our outside runners, we will improve greatly. Sure, our skills have been abysmal and need a major shake up but I wouldnt be against replacing some of our inside/hard ball getter hacks (Cassisi, Kornes, Thomas, McCarthy, Logan, Pfeiffer etc) with better quality inside extractors. If we can get guys like Pearce, Hartlett, Boak, Broady etc the ball with more space and time (which includes achieving this outcome with more blocks and shepherds along with better inside ball extractions) our go forward will improve drastically.
Whilst we continue to rely on guys like Cassisi, kornes, Thomas, etc getting a half scrubber kick or handball that falls at a teammates feet or behind them or over their head or whilst they have 3 opponents sweating on them, we'll go nowhere.
(Its why Rodan teases us so much. When he does do something, rare as it is, and when he doesnt hang on to it for too long, rare as it is, his extraction work is generally of a much higher quality than the rest of the inside guys.)

Whether Moloney will dramatically improve this area for us, not sure. His age profile and lack of quality when Jamar has struggled is a worry. Wouldnt be the worst pickup but would really like to see what the cost would be before making the decision.

 

[n4nirvana]

........ and for how long rohdey signs him up for?

Admit Im not familiar with the particulars of free agency. The little of what I know comes from the NBA model.

But I get the impression that if you do want to secure a restricted free agent from another team/club you offer the player a long term contract (maybe ~ 3-4 years) and/or a high price tag to dissuade their home team from matching.

So if we're interested in a 28 yo Moloney will it be an auto 3 years at least? Coz I can see Melbourne maybe matching a 2 year one if pushed. Knowing Rodhe's penchant for long contracts on borderline players - I can see a 3-4 year offer as a somewhat real possibility, all things considered.

The other point Im interested in is how well established are our free agency rules.
Can we front/back load contract offers to players?
Imagine frontloading a contract offer to a restricted free agent from one of the top teams with salary cap issues ...

I don't think backloading has as much an effect here as it does in the states eg Houston lowballing the Knicks with the poison pill fourth year offer to Jeremy Lin.

 

[Doctor Feel]

I think Montagna just signed a new deal.

Yep you are right, was hidden in the Lenny Hayes article. Has signed for 2 years. I hope we don't just fall back on Moloney just because.

 

[Asgardian]

KEY DATES
August 1, 2pm - Nomination deadline for 17-year-old players under second and final year of GWS Giants Trade Incentive Rules.
October 1 - Commencement of Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency period.
October 5, 2pm - Nomination of Father-Son Eligible Players and Academy Bidding Players.
October 8, 10am - Father Son Eligible Players and Academy Players Bid Meeting.
October 8 - Commencement of Trade Period.
October 19, 2pm - Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any uncontracted players under List Establishment rules.
October 19, 5pm - Close to Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.
October 23, 5pm - Trade Incentive Rule (17 year-olds). Deadline for trading.
October 26, 2pm - End of Trade Period.
October 26, 2.10pm - Trade Incentive (17 year-olds) Selection.
October 31, 2pm - List Lodgement One.
November 1 - Commencement to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
November 13, 2pm - End to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.

KEY DATES

Figured knowing these dates would be worthwhile.

 

[TheFVK]

link

The contested possession and clearance king - two areas the Power desperately needs to improve in - has played just 15 of a possible 21 matches this season and has spent the past two weeks languishing in the Demons' VFL side, Casey Scorpions.

Clearances differential the past 3 weeks:

+14 Lions
-1 West Coast
-4 Hawthorn

It is a fallacy that we are lacking in and under players with "grunt".. we should be focussing on skilful outside players AND replacing our one dimensional "grunt" players with poor finishing skills for more complete contested players.

 

[S.Patrol.G]

KEY DATES
August 1, 2pm - Nomination deadline for 17-year-old players under second and final year of GWS Giants Trade Incentive Rules.
October 1 - Commencement of Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency period.
October 5, 2pm - Nomination of Father-Son Eligible Players and Academy Bidding Players.
October 8, 10am - Father Son Eligible Players and Academy Players Bid Meeting.
October 8 - Commencement of Trade Period.
October 19, 2pm - Deadline for GWS Giants to pre-list balance of any uncontracted players under List Establishment rules.
October 19, 5pm - Close to Restricted Free Agency Offer and Unrestricted Free Agency Period.
October 23, 5pm - Trade Incentive Rule (17 year-olds). Deadline for trading.
October 26, 2pm - End of Trade Period.
October 26, 2.10pm - Trade Incentive (17 year-olds) Selection.
October 31, 2pm - List Lodgement One.
November 1 - Commencement to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.
November 13, 2pm - End to Delisted Player Free Agency Period.

KEY DATES

Figured knowing these dates would be worthwhile.

A very good indicator as to why KT wants a coach in place by GF week. October is huge!

 

[Beats]

Always thought Moloney could play, but has also always had question marks too. Why did Geelong trade him? (this was before their era of dominance). Now after a BnF year he's on the outer at Melbourne. What's his problem?

Geelong traded him to Melbourne for a second 1st round pick to secure Brad Ottens from Richmond. It was a complicated deal that saw Scott Thompson (homesickness) go to Adelaide as well. Both Thompson and Moloney were coming off their draft contract at that stage (19/20 y.o's). Moloney was a big Melbourne supporter growing up and wanted to play for the team that he supported when he was young.

He had a few good seasons prior to 2011, showing that his bnf year wasn't solely attributable to a good ruck combination. Polled 31 brownlow votes 2009-11 (16 in 2011) in a team being consistently smashed every week... His strengths being his physical size (he is a beast, very heavily muscled), ability to bullock his way through a contest and his 'long bomb' kicking style.

Apparently he enjoys a beer and has had some internal disciplanary measures imposed on him, with the 'urinating on the bar' incident prime among them.

Was dropped from the leadership group (following the aforementioned incident) and has struggled to get a game under the new coach. His body is reasonably sound and he provides a large amount of on field leadership through his playing style (at least he did until this year...).

My view on him is that he is primarily a stoppage player and due to the increased speed of the game (and quicker re-starts at bounces etc.) he can no longer 'explode' and push through/ past people to get in to space. Still is and can be an affetive player, but requires a stop-start style of play to be at his best.

His contract is likely to be in the range of 400-500k at the moment, with his form having gone the way it has this year it's likely that his next contract will be around the 400k mark. I'd say at a minimum he has 3 more seasons where he can play at an AFL level, possibly up to 5.

 

[Forzaport]

At Moloney's age you'd have to factor in a 2 year deal only, anything beyond that would be a bonus for us and him. If he's on the outer at Melbourne, his next contract would drop significantly. I can't imagine a fit player not getting regular games being offered a $400k p.a. contract. He'd surely be an upgrade on our plodder bridage, might even be head plodder.