Offseason Changes + Road to the 2021 Premiership

[greatwhiteshark]

Brander is 22 in February and has played around 10-11 games, with very few in his preferred position. If JK does play on, that's another year for Brander not in the team.

JK has earnt a new contract if he chooses to continue and play next year.

I don't like the idea of JK only playing home games or something along those lines. I feel like if you want your connection forward of the ball you need some continuity.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think the current circumstance is far far from ideal.

If we were a struggling bottom 8 club then the answers are you probably start to build with your youth.
But we are a top 8 club and most would agree we have a list that can contend and that will still apply in 2021.
No sane coaching group is going to replace JK with Brander, Brander needs to get his spot by completely dominating in the WAFL at FF. How many years Brander plays as a backup is completely up to his own performances.
We need a small forward, we are well placed with JK and JD as our focal points.
Our midfield is our issue and it needs fixing, I don’t think the club has the balls to fix it and they will back what they have in and we will contNiue to get similar results.

 

[FreeTK]

If we were a struggling bottom 8 club then the answers are you probably start to build with your youth.
But we are a top 8 club and most would agree we have a list that can contend and that will still apply in 2021.
No sane coaching group is going to replace JK with Brander, Brander needs to get his spot by completely dominating in the WAFL at FF. How many years Brander plays as a backup is completely up to his own performances.
We need a small forward, we are well placed with JK and JD as our focal points.
Our midfield is our issue and it needs fixing, I don’t think the club has the balls to fix it and they will back what they have in and we will contNiue to get similar results.

You're talking about something completely different to what I am.

Firstly, it is unclear what the arrangements for 2nd tier comps will look next year.

Also - JK playing is better for 2021. Agreed.

What is in the best interests of over the next 2-4 years?

How does the club manage to transition the forward line with JK's career coming to an end at some point between now and at most, 2 years time?

They are actual list management challenges that need to be confronted, and your response doesn't really do that....At all.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

I would rather have Gaff. I don't like one paced inside midfielders and I suspect the only way Carlton lets Cripps walk is if his body is cooked.

From what I’ve been reading partner has some medical issues and considering a move home to support that.

don’t disagree with what you’re saying about Gaff and how consistent he is. Cripps has been down this year but was dominant last year with 26 Brownlow votes, when the opportunity to land someone like that comes up you’ve at least got to consider it. It’d break my heart to see him in purple.

 

[kaiserchief13]

If we were a struggling bottom 8 club then the answers are you probably start to build with your youth.
But we are a top 8 club and most would agree we have a list that can contend and that will still apply in 2021.
No sane coaching group is going to replace JK with Brander, Brander needs to get his spot by completely dominating in the WAFL at FF. How many years Brander plays as a backup is completely up to his own performances.
We need a small forward, we are well placed with JK and JD as our focal points.
Our midfield is our issue and it needs fixing, I don’t think the club has the balls to fix it and they will back what they have in and we will contNiue to get similar results.

What exactly is the issue in your eyes? In my eyes WC need a big inside mid who can take the hits, dish it out to the runners and get up and do it again, and again, and again. The mids overall are too small other than Yeo. Dunkley from Bulldogs would be perfect (he is surplus to their needs with them using him as a 2nd ruck)

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You're talking about something completely different to what I am.

Firstly, it is unclear what the arrangements for 2nd tier comps will look next year.

Also - JK playing is better for 2021. Agreed.

What is in the best interests of over the next 2-4 years?

How does the club manage to transition the forward line with JK's career coming to an end at some point between now and at most, 2 years time?

They are actual list management challenges that need to be confronted, and your response doesn't really do that....At all.

Transition can only be done one way, one guy plays and the other doesn’t. Clubs that are looking 2-4 years ahead are always looking 2-4 years ahead and never contend.
We are still in a window and our 2021 list is all that matters.

 

[squashface]

hadn’t seen he had just recommitted.

In an open market who do you think would command more value Cripps or Gaff

It’s not really relevant though. A Gaff for Cripps trade is a sideways move, we weaken our outside to improve our inside so we are breaking even at best. Cripps may be the superior player, but is he worth losing our only genuine wingman for?

 

[15yearmember]

Coaching staff and/or the gameplan needs to change. Midfield and stoppage setups are appalling considering the ruckman we have and the dudes he’s tapping it too..

And I don’t know if it’s part of the gameplan to stand in a circle at stoppages seagulling and only going in one at a time or who’s idea it is to not have anyone front and square reading the ball off the contest but those are some basic f*cking skills. When we have the ball we are the best in the business but we struggle to actually win it unless it’s a NN centre bounce, free kick, or contested mark. Fix that up and we’d walk it in. 2018 finals series is the best example of what happens when we do.

2018 was also when we last had a gun midfield coach - who also had a chippy/hard edge.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

What exactly is the issue in your eyes? In my eyes WC need a big inside mid who can take the hits, dish it out to the runners and get up and do it again, and again, and again. The mids overall are too small other than Yeo. Dunkley from Bulldogs would be perfect (he is surplus to their needs with them using him as a 2nd ruck)

We don’t run in numbers, we seem to be outnumbered at around the ground contests and opposition clubs seem to take the ball away from contests to easily.
We are very robotic and I get the feeling they are told to work in certain patterns which is all good and well but not so good if your opponent doesn’t work with your plan.
Our centre square work is good but not great, it’s great to try and just have NN tap it down your throat but that happens rarely in footy and it’s the ones where it just misses that we get caught out because we all ran forward and the opposition got the ball. We get exposed because we have no defensive set ups at ball ups and centre square bounces. It has to be fixed.

 

[FreeTK]

What exactly is the issue in your eyes? In my eyes WC need a big inside mid who can take the hits, dish it out to the runners and get up and do it again, and again, and again. The mids overall are too small other than Yeo. Dunkley from Bulldogs would be perfect (he is surplus to their needs with them using him as a 2nd ruck)

Dunkley plays the Grigg role.

It gives Bulldogs an extra midfielder. He plays second ruck because he is anything but surplus to their needs.

 

[Agent93]

We don’t run in numbers, we seem to be outnumbered at around the ground contests and opposition clubs seem to take the ball away from contests to easily.

This. Always seems to be more of the opposition around the ball.

 

[CM9000]

Brander is 22 in February and has played around 10-11 games, with very few in his preferred position. If JK does play on, that's another year for Brander not in the team.

JK has earnt a new contract if he chooses to continue and play next year.

I don't like the idea of JK only playing home games or something along those lines. I feel like if you want your connection forward of the ball you need some continuity.

I don't know what the answer is, but I think the current circumstance is far far from ideal.

And how many years will Brander have after that? It’d be a problem if JK was 29 or 30 atm, but it’s only a year or two at max. Brander will have close to a decade in the FF position, but right now, we’re in premiership mode - we have to go with the best option.

And I agree with you in regards to continuity - if JK plays on, it has to be every game.

Outside of that 5 game patch mid year where JK kicked 20 goals, he only went at about a goal a game. He has already declined and the question is has he got another pre season in him while turning 34 next year.

He turns 34 late in the season, actually. Also, I’m not sure you can say his form in the later hub is evidence of “decline”, or something like that.

 

[kaiserchief13]

We don’t run in numbers, we seem to be outnumbered at around the ground contests and opposition clubs seem to take the ball away from contests to easily.
We are very robotic and I get the feeling they are told to work in certain patterns which is all good and well but not so good if your opponent doesn’t work with your plan.
Our centre square work is good but not great, it’s great to try and just have NN tap it down your throat but that happens rarely in footy and it’s the ones where it just misses that we get caught out because we all ran forward and the opposition got the ball. We get exposed because we have no defensive set ups at ball ups and centre square bounces. It has to be fixed.

Yeah probably because the gameplan is kick+mark, instead of run, handball, run, handball, run etc.

 

[Coasters7]

2018 was also when we last had a gun midfield coach - who also had a chippy/hard edge.

Yeah at risk of opening up the 2018 was Sam Mitchell’s flag debate.. it seems like he was a large contributing factor. He might not have been the sole reason we won the flag but we definitely don’t win it without him and he was certainly the sole reason that the midfield stepped up a gear for the finals and became a hardened machine.. and that’s all this team needs. We can get by fine solely on talent in the middle and talented talls and finish somewhere in the top half of the 8 pretty comfortably but if the midfield comes out with a hard edge we won’t be losing many games.

Simmo is fine but he needs a number 2 who is his complete opposite and that guy also needs to be in charge of the mids. Absolutely zero coincidence that those traits belong to Mitchell.

 

[Obeanie1]

But why would Brander leave if he’ll be taking the FF spot permanently in a year, maybe two? It’s not like he has to wait five years, or something absurd like that.

And he is contracted for two more years. So we do have the leverage to keep him.

It a tough one.

 

[Obeanie1]

Yeah at risk of opening up the 2018 was Sam Mitchell’s flag.. it seems like he was a large contributing factor. He might not have been the sole reason we won the flag but we definitely don’t win it without him and he was certainly the sole reason that the midfield stepped up a gear for the finals and became a hardened machine.. and that’s all this team needs. We can get by fine solely on talent in the middle and talented talls and finish somewhere in the top half of the 8 pretty comfortably but if the midfield comes out with a hard edge we won’t be losing many games.

Simmo is fine but he needs a number 2 who is his complete opposite and that guy also needs to be in charge of the mids. Absolutely zero coincidence that those traits belong to Mitchell.

Pike as midfield coach?

Reports he was pretty tough at the Crows and before that he coached with us. A sneaky Simo backup plan for a couple of years time.

 

[campaigner___]

This. Always seems to be more of the opposition around the ball.

I’d look at it as not so much an “us” thing, but more of a “them” thing. Collingwood pushed numbers around the ball last night which is why there always seemed to be an outnumber.

+ Collingwood win the contest
- Collingwood have nothing outside the contest and ultimately turn it over to a WC player.

Everyone knows we play a kick/mark game and we can’t do that if we push everyone around the ball. It’s not a good thing, but not a bad thing either IMO. Lose the contested ball but win the game.

 

[Asapartyhat]

I'd like to see Willie Rioli back bigger and better than ever and Venerables as well.
Our game plan and personal hasn't changed much in the last few years and opposition sides can nullify a few things we do here and there and with a bit of luck and accuracy up forward can get a result .
So I would like our coaches to be a bit more proactive and work on nullifying the opposition strengths a bit more as well as freshening up the game plan.As it is we are predictable.Our cattle are premiership winning standard each season so no problem with our personal.

 

[campaigner___]

On the brander debate: how long did it take Kennedy/darling to become the greatest of all time? Give the kid a chance ffs

 

[Agent93]

I’d look at it as not so much an “us” thing, but more of a “them” thing. Collingwood pushed numbers around the ball last night which is why there always seemed to be an outnumber.

I'm not looking just in the context of the elim final, but every time we've struggled throughout 2020. Big contests we were always outnumbered. When we were flying it was due to quick ball movement (no contests) or even strength victories in small contests. Eagles very rarely outnumbered their opponents to the ball in the middle of the ground.

 

[InTheWings]

I'd like to see us re-draft Alec Waterman and drop someone like Reid.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

On the brander debate: how long did it take Kennedy/darling to become the greatest of all time? Give the kid a chance ffs

Agree but how how do you give him a chance when those two are in the side?

 

[Royals]

we either play Brander the majority of the games next season or we trade him for a mid,
no point keeping quality tall's in WAFL while playing spud mids in the AFL.

 

[BTWC]

This. Always seems to be more of the opposition around the ball.

Exactly right. We never run and break lines even when there is space to do so. We mark and kick and move the ball slowly. And dare say it when we do not mark the ball up the line, we have no one around and we lose the contested footy. Over and over again.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Exactly right. We never run and break lines even when there is space to do so. We mark and kick and move the ball slowly. And dare say it when we do not mark the ball up the line, we have no one around and we lose the contested footy. Over and over again.

When you consider we have players like a Hurn and a Jetta who have brilliant kicking ability it’s amazing Simmo chose the stop start chipping game plan.

 

[Agent93]

When you consider we have players like a Hurn and a Jetta who have brilliant kicking ability it’s amazing Simmo chose the stop start chipping game plan.

I think it's because of them we do it. It doesn't happen all the way up the ground, we chip side to side until one of the ball users spots a coverage mistake and then it tends to be fairly quick and direct.