Autopsy Positives and Negatives vs. Demons - Rd 22, 2018

[bzparkes]

Apparently it was the first time since round one where a team scored more than 90 points against us, the longest streak in the AFL era.

 

[Monocle]

I would be interested in how you think we were so close, given Vardy was our key froward, McGovern played like a crab, and our midfield apparently cannot get the ball, or kick?

We are second, yet our midfield is apparently shit. That just doesn't happen, either we are not second, or our midfield is not shit.

Where did I say that our midfield was shit ? Your words Pal not mine.

I said our midfield is not up to the same standard as most of the other teams in the top eight, get your fact in order before you come on here sprout stuff.

I would suggest that we our sitting second on the ladder, on the back of a very good seasons production from our backline and a very productive forward line thus far and a massive kick start ( 10 wins in a row ) when NN dominated.

If our midfield was in the same class of dominance as our back line and forward line then we would be sitting top.

 

[Candiru]

Should have picked a second tall forward.

 

[Gravitas]

+ Vardy played a good game clunking marks around the ground
+ Very good contribution from Rioli, kicked 3 goals and made a good spoil in defence during the first quarter
+ Barrass played a very solid game, took marks, spoiled the ball well. All up until the last 5 minutes where there was some questionable decision making. Still a positive for me though
+ Intensity around the ball was very good throughout the game despite being one man down, quite a few chases ultimately went unrewarded though
+ Yeo seemed to flash in and out of the game for me, but all of his contributions were very damaging
+ When Sheed took the right options he looked sublime

- When Sheed receives the ball and bombs it forward he isn't as great
- McGovern went missing throughout large parts of the game. Could be attributed to his swing forward and back during the game. If I remember correctly he was a bit unsettled the last time we did that for a few games. Either needs to be played forward or back during a game
- Needed to stop kicking to Max Gawn, it eventually happened but not soon enough for my liking. Interesting decision to kick to a contest of LeCras and Gawn at one point...
- Lycett was soundly beaten by Gawn in the ruck and he didn't provide much else around the ground, would be looking for a better performance against Martin next week
- The midfield wasn't able to shark Gawn's taps. Melbourne had far too many clearances. If we don't have the dominant ruck, which is realistic as we may come up against Gawn again or Grundy in finals, we need to be able to do so. Gawn had far too much influence on the game
- Some uncharacteristic passes went astray whilst switching and chipping around the back. Signs of cracking under pressure?
- Game was lost in the final five minutes. Always felt we were going to take the lead after getting jumped. After hitting the front the structures changed, not sure from which side, but it allowed the Dees to get out the back far too easily. Disappointing coaching to not prevent that
- Umpiring. Was at the game, if I had to pick the worst of the lot it would be the non-holding the ball decision for the Yeo tackle on the goal line. Very poor umpiring display

 

[PerthBoy86]

Actually about as happy as I can imagine being after a loss. That was finals like intensity, great experience ahead of the real thing. And we learned that some guys like Rioli are ready for it. I thought especially in the third quarter/second half that some of our quick hands to get it out of congestion was really good. If we can sew up top 2 next week I think we'll be much better off having played this game.

Don't forget that our worst period of the season came when Kennedy & Darling were both unavailable and we played some insipid footy that month. Today we had neither but the team adjusted and nearly got the job done against an opponent that 100% brought it.

That part was pleasing. When Darls went down that was the question that was asked: could our smaller forwards stand up? Rioli, Ryan, Masten, even LeCras for a bit stood up admirably. Just lacked consistent delivery.

 

[Astro7]

I dont think the "arrogant" thing in here impacts what happens on the field. Just saying.

Of course not? it's a side issue, was becoming worn out..thought a loss might temper it.

 

[Quinz]

Should have picked a second tall forward.

Hindsight is fifty fifty but even on selection night I thought Waterman should have been picked. We're playing about 6 smalls down there with only Darling and a resting ruck trying to bring the ball to ground.

 

[eagle dtrain]

Our midfield was our weakness but thats nothing new especially with Gaff out we all know thats our Achilles heel. However when you dont have your 2 key forwards its a lot harder to hide those sins. To be fair Melbourne is the best clearance team in the comp and has the best tap ruckman so was always going to be hard. I think the way they used the ball in the second half going inside 50 to a small forward line was excellent and moved the ball quickly to expose our defence.

We are still right in it. Win next week and get JK back hopefully then we can make a GF.

If we lose so be it still got a crack at it

 

[Gazeah78]

Gawn smoked us.
Really made me miss Nic Nat.
JK is there and we win that I think.
Annoyed we lost to that bunch of campaigners.
Percentage could be real important now. Freo will fold like a cheap suit so we need to win. Shame cause itf would have been great to rest a few.

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[Gazeah78]

Need to address these slow starts too....

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[Eagleboy68]

If you haven't realised Max Gawn is part of there midfield. I'm defending the team because we only just lost without 4 key players and apparently our midfield got smashed. we must be doing something right, surely?

We did a lot right after quarter time.
Before that we didn't show up and Simpson and the team knew they'd show up to play because their season was on the line.
I'm not criticising Simmo or the team but we need to start games better.
Get on the front foot instead of playing catch up.
Giving quality teams a 5 goals start in finals isn't going to cut it.

 

[Monocle]

If you haven't realised Max Gawn is part of there midfield. I'm defending the team because we only just lost without 4 key players and apparently our midfield got smashed. we must be doing something right, surely?

End of argument we are going round and round in circles its a Positives and Negatives thread.

You post the positives I post the negatives.

You rate our mids as being first rate and I am concerned with their lack of production.

So we agree to disagree.

 

[Georgie 404]

I think its going to be difficult with out NN and Gaff as we don't win the clearances and contested possessions enough against better midfields.
Would love to be proved wrong but what I watched live today , I was again left convinced that our midfield is better than most but not quite up to the standard of the better teams. I happen to rate Richmond, GWS Collingwood, Sydney and Melbourne as having far superior midfields to ours , the game in the main is won and lost at stoppages and I think we are not at the same level as the teams that I have mentioned in that area.

The nicnat loss is the biggest
Jd and jk(particularly) will straighten our kicking, and gaffs running kicking, but the loss of nn is the killer
He rucks(well) he ruck roves, kicks goals, and tackles hard and his presence lifts the team
It’s like playing with an extra guy on the ground
Regardless of stats (which I couldn’t give a f... about)

The big positive is Rioli Ryan and venebles believing they can play. And they can. When jk is back, they will thrive and we’ll still be a threat

Backline-solid

Aside from yeo, I’m just not sure Lycet shuey, redden are up to taking on the best in finals

 

[WCE1698]

End of argument we are going round and round in circles its a Positives and Negatives thread.

You post the positives I post the negatives.

You rate our mids as being first rate and I am concerned with their lack of production.

So we agree to disagree.

Good call, i think there is cause for concern short term, with Gaff and Nic out of the midfield. Long term i think we are looking good with Mallen, Ainsworth, Pet all showing good signs in the WAFL, while Willie and Venables will improve. Hopefully the boys can still find a way this year.

 

[Candiru]

Hindsight is fifty fifty but even on selection night I thought Waterman should have been picked. We're playing about 6 smalls down there with only Darling and a resting ruck trying to bring the ball to ground.

I said it in advance. Check the changes thread.

 

[Eagleboy68]

The nicnat loss is the biggest
Jd and jk(particularly) will straighten our kicking, and gaffs running kicking, but the loss of nn is the killer
He rucks(well) he ruck roves, kicks goals, and tackles hard and his presence lifts the team
It’s like playing with an extra guy on the ground
Regardless of stats (which I couldn’t give a f... about)

The big positive is Rioli Ryan and venebles believing they can play. And they can. When jk is back, they will thrive and we’ll still be a threat

Backline-solid

Aside from yeo, I’m just not sure Lycet shuey, redden are up to taking on the best in finals

Not much we can do about Lycett and redden now.
Shuey is a grade. Think you're wrong about that one.

 

[dajesmac]

I said it in advance. Check the changes thread.

He’s not going to do that.

 

[Candiru]

He’s not going to do that.

It's an open invitation. And it's in the OP. Picking one key forward is foolish.

 

[CM9000]

OK then I would be interested to hear why you think we lost today if you thought our midfield was OK ?

I didn't think our midfield won today, hardly - I thought we broke even with it being more in Melbourne's favour. However, that wasn't entirely lost in the midfield; our defence was slightly poor at points (although solid for the whole game). Hell, that was the first time we've conceded over 100 points in 17 consecutive matches.

Bascially, I think you're making a fair observation overall, but it shouldn't be a reason for us not to win the GF. Arguably, JK and JD have been more important for us throughout the season then Gaff.

This isn't the 'CM9000' board where you vet all posts. If you disagree with a post I make, feel free to comment. Achee has shown barely anything, thus he continually gets dropped and hasn't been offered an extension. He might be a good mark and a good kick, but he is a bad footballer. Port knew it and WCE now know it. We can persist with him but he will be a big let down in the finals.

This is what I mean.

Let me elaborate with your recent posting history:

He's not AFL standard. Never has been. Slow, weak and dreadful skills. How many times do we have to put up with this? If we see McInnes waddling around on an AFL ground again, I would query whether this is nepotism.

Surely even McInnes knows that he isn't up to it? I assume players have a basic level of self-awareness.

Can we all agree that McInnes is done at AFL? He is out of chances now. He waddled around for a few hours without any impact. I don't care if Rioli, Ryan and McGovern all go down with injury - McInnes is done.

What do you expect when you replace Darling with McInnes... A solid WAFL reserves player with A grade talent.

After our loss to Adelaide, here are some of your posts in various threads shitting on McInnes. Before that, you hadn't posted for 2 months as we had been winning.

Simpson won't play lecras as depth. Lecras continued to get games this season despite putrid form. He went 5 games without a goal. He became very selfish and just started taking pot shots from everywhere in the hope of snagging one. That first goal last night was a pot shot.

Simpson doesn't have the cojones to be head coach. He can't sack players. He begged priddis to retire. Lecras will go around yet another 2 years. Simpson even started playing 3 rucks to keep Cox going around. Useless head coach. Simpson is a follower, a yes man - an assistant coach.

But lecras doesn't want to retire. He wants to continue on the $700,000 contract he signed years ago.

There is no way they can justify keeping lecras. He has been a potato for the past 3 years. He signed a mammoth contract (off the back of good form) and now it's over. He wants the $700,000 gravy train to continue of course.

Here are your posts after our loss to GWS in the QF, when you started insulting LeGod on various threads. Before that, you hadn't posted since June (2 months), when we had lost to Gold Coast.

And that's just recent examples. I don't know how long it's going for, but it proves my point; you only come online when we lose, and when we do, you start shittalking our players.

That's the extent of your posts, and entirely negative. I swear I've never seen anything positive from you in my 2 years on BigFooy.

 

[Mulldogg]

- Max Gawn just did what he wanted with our rucks today. Mightily impressive performance from him. Gave their mids first use and flicked it out into space at will. If Lycett wants to go to chase big money then so be it. Was found wanting today big Slyce.
- McGovern had a dirty day after the euphoria of last week.
- Umpires. Take nothing away from the Dees performance; had more to play for and it showed. But it just stinks to high hell how the AFL decided to send over a 100% Vic umpiring brigade on the back of the supposed arm chair ride we have been getting at Optus. It’s not the decisions they made today, it was the ones they didn’t pay that are galling.

+ After a slow start Yeo was terrific again. Tackles with real vigour.
+ Some of Cripps’ gut running was a feat to behold live at the ground. Guy just never stops working.
+ Sheppard solid in defence yet again. Underrated player outside of WA.

 

[avishka5]

Yeah don't get the Sheed criticism at all. Thought he was better than the likes of Yeo, Shuey and even Redden. Redden more disappointing considering he wasn't even payed much attention like the other two received. Thought our three main were well down and were pretty sloppy in a heated contest.

Sheed had a few blemishes that included that last play when he turned it over but IMO the good outweighed the bad today. Played a Gaff like role today playing mostly an outside role and with a bit of time on ball. With Space he was actually able to cut demons when we rebounded and in tight he had a few smart/quick hand passes.

It wasn't the perfect game from him, that said we aren't going to find anyone better to replace Gaff and the more he plays the better he will be for us when the finals come rolling around. His last two games have been a 100x better than his last 10 games this year.

 

[Gugs9]

And this will continue to plague us when we play quality sides until we get some quality midfielders.
Melbourne have put a lot of trade and draft currency over the last five years into addressing their midfield.
Their picks have delivered whereas ours have not.
Until we are successful in nailing some genuine midfielders we will be there and thereabouts , but we won't be genuine contenders.

Do rate your posts monocle, but have to admit i think we can be a little harsh on our midfield at times.

I think if everyone steps up yeo, shuey, redden and sheed is still a good enough core for us to contend this finals given the strength of our forwards and backs. Losing Nic Nat and Gaff has meant we are no longer close to the best midfields in it (GWS and Melbourne imo), but i still think its adequate. Gaff in particular, as good as his year was is coverable provided no more mid injuries.

I know your a knocker of sheed and he certainly isnt the perfect midfielder. But at the ground today i thought his forward 50 entries and link up were excellent, somewhat alleviating the loss of Gaff. I think many focus on sheeds deficiencies too much, he is still a goal kicking mid who finds a lot of the ball and has a beautiful kick (despite his shocking non preferred). He was shocking earlier in the year but is building form now at the right time.

Hutch is going to become a key for us too now and its a must he limits the best mid of the opposition.

What i would give to have the fijian god in the centre in a crunch moment come finals though

 

[wowlace]

"If we didn't win all those games we won, we would have won less games"

See you in 2030 Harry.

 

[Georgie 404]

Not much we can do about Lycett and redden now.
Shuey is a grade. Think you're wrong about that one.

IMO shuey is close to a grade, but not quite
Great when getting silver service taps (from nn) and kicking goals from centre bounces etc, but can’t remember him ever really standing out in a final (happy to be proven wrong there)
And his form since the hamstring IMO hasn’t been great

 

[Gazeah78]

- Max Gawn just did what he wanted with our rucks today. Mightily impressive performance from him. Gave their mids first use and flicked it out into space at will. If Lycett wants to go to chase big money then so be it. Was found wanting today big Slyce.
- McGovern had a dirty day after the euphoria of last week.
- Umpires. Take nothing away from the Dees performance; had more to play for and it showed. But it just stinks to high hell how the AFL decided to send over a 100% Vic umpiring brigade on the back of the supposed arm chair ride we have been getting at Optus. It’s not the decisions they made today, it was the ones they didn’t pay that are galling.

+ After a slow start Yeo was terrific again. Tackles with real vigour.
+ Some of Cripps’ gut running was a feat to behold live at the ground. Guy just never stops working.
+ Sheppard solid in defence yet again. Underrated player outside of WA.

What is with Yeo's slow starts? Seems to always take a quarter or two to get humming. We need him up and about straight away.

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