Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[stormskye]

Let's not forget that the pick we traded to GWS (which was pick 2) was a live pick used before the Nick Daicos bid came in - which we would have used if we had it. So we would have had our pick 2 (which ended up being Finn Callaghan) AND Nick Daicos.

No. Let’s forget and move on. This has been done to death. Many many times. It’s done.

 

[manicpie]

Imo they should look to do it before Tasmania comes in, then when they land look at trade in the gaps.

Nick has no side kick his age.

Pendles had Thomas.
Reid had Brown.
Steele had Beams (great recuiting).
Degoey and Moore.


Nick is flying solo on an island with a dearth of sub 23yo talent on list.

It's the type of players that we are drafting that's the problem. Our players look under developed and less athletic than the better sides players. I wouldn't mind a fresh set of eyes in our recruiting

 

[Jelly Bean]

But going to the draft is not the guarantee of success you keep assuming it will be.
I’d rather trade for known quantities and established players.
I’d argue the 5 Top 30 picks we used in draft from a few years ago, just proves the point of the draft being a lottery.

Yep, but you end up overpaying for the 'known quantities' because they are known quantities. The cost is a little cheaper going to the draft because the uncertainty is factored into the cost, and the good clubs differentiate themselves from the bad by being better at picking and therefore reducing the uncertainty, and therefore you can bring in more talent.

The draft is much less of a lottery in the first 12-14 picks, which is why you hang on to them at all costs. Trading a first round pick (even ignoring that it became pick 2) for 2 x 30ish picks was always a horrible move.

 

[loki04]

But going to the draft is not the guarantee of success you keep assuming it will be.
I’d rather trade for known quantities and established players.
I’d argue the 5 Top 30 picks we used in draft from a few years ago, just proves the point of the draft being a lottery.

Spin they, none of them, were top 15 picks.

None of them top 10.

And certainly no where close to the top 6 players.

It's about balance trading is critical like you say but imo once the team has built the basis of the next side that should contend for 5 to 8 years.
The current team is still riding the coat tails of 2 former rebuilds but its end is nigh amd a dearth coming through is going to bite hard.

You can't do this with NO low end picks, we have been very fortunate for FS luck.

You don't want to become a team that hopes with everything goes right you may pinch one especially if a new Brisbane, Geelong, Hawks or Richmond etc come up from teams who built for sustained success should it develop well.

You will be watching them win multiples whilst we know within ourselves we need luck. Much like 00 to 04 vs Brions.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Hawks are going ok and have a young list but let’s see how they go. Apparently they didn’t beat much on the weekend.
P.S. If Ginnivan’s match amounted to a demolition of us it’s probably the least impressive demolition I’ve seen.

They got hammered down at the Cattery a couple of weeks ago and currently sit outside the 8.

They are being talked up way too much everywhere.

 

[BEEG]

I agree totally. Our youth stocks are extremely thin. Now who do I blame for that? Derek Hine! How he gets to keep his job after all of these years is simply beyond me. I simply have no cofidence in him to select the right players for this club in terms of our glaring weaknesses

Careful he is a protected species around here

 

[manicpie]

Careful he is a protected species around here

Well, he's running out of protected areas to hide. His record since 2014 is bad

 

[loki04]

Let's not forget that the pick we traded to GWS (which was pick 2) was a live pick used before the Nick Daicos bid came in - which we would have used if we had it. So we would have had our pick 2 (which ended up being Finn Callaghan) AND Nick Daicos.

It was traded the year before.

We could of traded it in Nicks draft years trade period, or with live trading waited to see if North bid him at 1.
Which they at the time were unlikely to do as they wanted the hype in JHF as number 1 pick.
If they didn't bid at 1 then next live pick was our which mean we could of used it or traded for a better grouping of picks.

Again they didn't think we would bottom out that season much like Schultz trade and Treloars extra 1st rounder.

 

[loki04]

They got hammered down at the Cattery a couple of weeks ago and currently sit outside the 8.

They are being talked up way too much everywhere.

So does that go against the "don't bottom out" "first rounders suck" brigade? given Geelong is the poster child of that under Chris Scott?

 

[Vicky Park]

Yeah go back to your negative nancy group.
We lost by 11 goals but did you see how wonderful the conditions were out there.
In such perfect conditions your are going to kick 20 or so goals.
Or 20 or so behinds if you're Collingwood.

I’d almost forgotten about our 1.11 score in the third quarter. Sitting there, in the cold and wet, watching the horror unfold, and having (increasingly drunk and happy) Hawthorn supporters go in and out of their seats beside us, to the bar and back, spilling their drinks…Geez it was a shit show.

But 1.11 must be close to a record for us, in the modern era at least. But I can’t be stuffed doing the research.

 

[jmac70]

I’d almost forgotten about our 1.11 score in the third quarter. Sitting there, in the cold and wet, watching the horror unfold, and having (increasingly drunk and happy) Hawthorn supporters go in and out of their seats beside us, to the bar and back, spilling their drinks…Geez it was a shit show.

But 1.11 must be close to a record for us, in the modern era at least. But I can’t be stuffed doing the research.

To be fair, the Balter XPA cans are very good.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

So does that go against the "don't bottom out" "first rounders suck" brigade? given Geelong is the poster child of that under Chris Scott?

Does what, copying Geelongs model?

 

[loki04]

Does what, copying Geelongs model?

Yes the opinions here is that never bottoming out ie never properly rebuilding a side is better then a dip and hitting the draft to build a core around.

They often use Geelongs dead cat bounce year as proof of concept and now we have also done similar except with a generational talent gifted through FS allowing a timely talent injection.

 

[domus]

Honestly who would you prefer next decade?
What off field behaviour? A snort in the lorne pub (99% off footballers) and going to the races? Was a case of the club not liking him and drinking their own bathwater which was shown in the first 3 rounds and today to be a bad call
Really think the club pulled the wrong reign.

I heard a rumour that Peter Daicos rang the club and demanded they get Ginnivan away from his sons. I've heard another story from a reliable source that Pendles loves everybody in the club bar a certain individual and even one player who considers himself a friend of Jack, believed he was not good for the club. He may have turned over a new leaf or the Hawks might not give a stuff as long as he's playing great footy.

 

[slugger01]

The argument between bottoming out and going the draft route, versus never doing that and trading pics to stay competitive is not the issue. There is merit in both ways.

The issue for me is that we aren’t that good at both.
We sell low, buy high, and when we then have a poor year, and look forward to the benefit of that, we find we have given it away by selling the pick for oranges.

And then we need to find diamonds at pick 48..
So lucky our F/Sons have served us well..

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

I heard a rumour that Peter Daicos rang the club and demanded they get Ginnivan away from his sons. I've heard another story from a reliable source that Pendles loves everybody in the club bar a certain individual and even one player who considers himself a friend of Jack, believed he was not good for the club. He may have turned over a new leaf or the Hawks might not give a stuff as long as he's playing great footy.

And it wasn’t just Jack.

A certain family member of his was also a nightmare to deal with, I have that first hand.

 

[BigVic]

Will be a Sydney-Hawks grand final

 

[sideswipe]

And it wasn’t just Jack.

A certain family member of his was also a nightmare to deal with, I have that first hand.

Daddy’s home


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Greenaicos]

Will be a Sydney-Hawks grand final

Hawthorn to implode, lose the next three.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Hawthorn to implode, lose the next three.

They won't be able to keep their ego's in check. Cocky little pricks.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

Will be a Sydney-Hawks grand final

Who will Buddy be playing for in this version?

 

[jmac70]

Collingwood should rename the 2023 documentary to 43 sons and 1 arsewipe.

 

[BEEG]

I heard a rumour that Peter Daicos rang the club and demanded they get Ginnivan away from his sons. I've heard another story from a reliable source that Pendles loves everybody in the club bar a certain individual and even one player who considers himself a friend of Jack, believed he was not good for the club. He may have turned over a new leaf or the Hawks might not give a stuff as long as he's playing great footy.

I said this when trade was done.

Pendles and Howe were filthy the night of GF celebrations that Ginni left the celebrations and invited some players back to his joint.

They are big believers that everyone should have stuck together and celebrated.

Night of the Copeland he sat with Bianco in a corner all night and was clearly on the way out.

 

[Do_Beta_Rapport]

I said this when trade was done.

Pendles and Howe were filthy the night of GF celebrations that Ginni left the celebrations and invited some players back to his joint.

They are big believers that everyone should have stuck together and celebrated.

Night of the Copeland he sat with Bianco in a corner all night and was clearly on the way out.

He’s the class clown.

The Hawks are in year 1 of it. The Pies took 3 years before the jokes wore too thin.

Let’s see where we are in a couple of years.

 

[loki04]

He’s the class clown.

The Hawks are in year 1 of it. The Pies took 3 years before the jokes wore too thin.

Let’s see where we are in a couple of years.

In 2 more years he will be 23 I'd imagine a bit of growth has happened to his maturity.

It's okay to have a laugh you know, not everyone has to be like Pendles.