Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[Buckley is my hero]

When you have facts you don’t need spin.

This time next year Nth Melbourne will be beating us, with Schultz having minimal impact, while Ginnivan is in the top five of Hawthorn’s B&F, and you’ll still be maintaining that the club did the right thing in clearing Ginnivan and trading for Schultz.

 

[loki04]

This time next year Nth Melbourne will be beating us, with Schultz having minimal impact, while Ginnivan is in the top five of Hawthorn’s B&F, and you’ll still be maintaining that the club did the right thing in clearing Ginnivan and trading for Schultz.

North are going to be a very strong side and soon.

 

[upnsmoke]

He was always the player with that potential.

Remember, he was a 20 yo player, who got crucified by the AFL umpires for his Selwood technique. He nearly got his head pulled off in one game against Essendon.. Not the tackle, but straight after the tackle in the second action, by Ridley? i think it was. No free, and none of our player remonstrated and supported him.

So, as a 20yo, his biggest crime was to go out to dinner the day before a GF? OMG. Yep.
Don't make out that he didn't have talent, or his footy IQ wasn't high end. Or he, like a lot of our players now, lost confidence because of how he was treated on the field. His biggest flaw was that he was a 20yo, that was maturing. Like DeGoey. Like Swan.
But we decided to give him away for 3 magic beans.
And pay a pot of gold for a replacement that has 7 years less of a shelf life than him.

Ginivan is immensely talented but when Pies got Hill, there was a clash. Both play the same role. Although I would have kept Ginivan if Elliot was on the verge of retirement. But in reality, I think Ginivan didn't want to be a backup or share the role with Hill and Schultz so he asked to leave and become one of the main forwards in Hawthorn. It's a good career move for him can't blame him but the Pies had options.

 

[Roverjg]

Not sure how, failure to chase, lacking intensity, and poor attitude had anything to do with his position.

I had no issue with him being traded. Your comment was "If he had played as consistently as he did yesterday he would never have been traded" I responded to that comment that he was never tried anywhere other than starvation corner - he was only ever going to be a small forward with us. Yet he has hardly played this role since being at the Hawks. They have played him as the distributor from HB to FF

 

[upnsmoke]

This time next year Nth Melbourne will be beating us, with Schultz having minimal impact, while Ginnivan is in the top five of Hawthorn’s B&F, and you’ll still be maintaining that the club did the right thing in clearing Ginnivan and trading for Schultz.

This is an alarmist post. Schultz is a good player. It's his defense that is overlooked and he is absolutely a pit bull near the ball. He's not as exciting as Ginivan but defense wise he is critical for inside 50 pressure. Schultz can also only improve. The Pies have too many small forwards and they are getting in each other's space.

 

[No SPIN]

Not directly, but because of the Schultz trade..

Yes, we paid too much, even if we ended up premiers again this year. Because he would have been a free agent this year, and FREO knew they would not have been getting a round one compo pick. We didn't really need him. We had Ginni, Beau, Elliott, Hill. We could have waited a year and got him as a free agent.

And Fly is a great coach, but Ginni is the only person he has not publicly supported and nurtured from my memory.
The " read the room" comment was poor, and reflected his disdain for him. As well as his lack of real support during the ducking saga. If i was an immature 20yo, i would feel pissed off at not being supported, and ask to be traded. And then want to show those b*******.

You have a short memory- Ginnivan was constantly supported. Fly made positive comments about his application at training and his efforts in the VFL.
And with the later - he was actually going over the top because Ginnivan was ordinary in a lot of those games.
I had arguments here with many that he was being pumped up.

The “read the room” was an indication that Fly had had enough, and that disrespect was the final straw.
Fly has standards that drive culture - Ginnivan was continually mocking the standards.
You don’t build culture by continually excusing such poor attitudes.

 

[No SPIN]

I had no issue with him being traded. Your comment was "If he had played as consistently as he did yesterday he would never have been traded" I responded to that comment that he was never tried anywhere other than starvation corner - he was only ever going to be a small forward with us. Yet he has hardly played this role since being at the Hawks. They have played him as the distributor from HB to FF

We tried him in different positions in the VFL and he didn’t standout.
He failed to chase, lacked intensity and sauntered around the ground in most of his senior games, including the GF.

If he had showed commitment things could have been different.

 

[upnsmoke]

Bucks and now Fly are trying to do what Geelong and Sydney has done with their culture... making it priority when building teams. Bucks just ran out of time and got unlucky in 2018. But I think as talented as Ginivan was, he was at his career point where he wants to take off as a star, and being a magpie won't allow that due to Pies focus on culture. Water under the bridge.

But I truly think Pies are in the same tier as Sydney and Geelong with culture. And hence dropping off to the bottom is unlikely unless it's injuries and 2024 is an example of a season riddled with injuries.

Next season, the Pies should have cash to lure players.

 

[slugger01]

You have a short memory- Ginnivan was constantly supported. Fly made positive comments about his application at training and his efforts in the VFL.
And with the later - he was actually going over the top because Ginnivan was ordinary in a lot of those games.
I had arguments here with many pointing out it he was being pumped up.

The “read the room” was an indication that Fly had had enough, and that disrespect was the final straw.
Fly has standards that drive culture - Ginnivan was continually mocking the standards.
You don’t build culture by continually excusing such poor attitudes.

No, not a short memory. Fly kept on saying that Ginnivan must work hard to gain respect. And he kept saying he is working hard in the VFL, and he should be ready when the opportunity arises. This was after his drug suspension.
Fly didn’t come out in support of Ginni when he kept getting crucified with head high tackles. Only that he should work through the issue.
Please, I really don’t care for your spin, nor whether he was traded or stayed.
We gave him away for baked beans. That is where we failed. He was worth a lot more than discounting our round 2 pick!!
And it was obvious we didn’t want him. That is my issue. We keep depreciating our team with poor trading!!!

 

[No SPIN]

This time next year Nth Melbourne will be beating us, with Schultz having minimal impact, while Ginnivan is in the top five of Hawthorn’s B&F, and you’ll still be maintaining that the club did the right thing in clearing Ginnivan and trading for Schultz.

You’re wasting your crystal ball - just give me the tattslotto numbers.

 

[Greenaicos]

Call me optimistic but if we beat Richmond, Carlton, Brisbane & Melbourne we make finals. We are still a chance!

Your optimistic.

 

[danielnajdek]

Your optimistic.

I'd call it delusional.

 

[larrikan]

We tried him in different positions in the VFL and he didn’t standout.
He failed to chase, lacked intensity and sauntered around the ground in most of his senior games, including the GF.

If he had showed commitment things could have been different.

This - pro Ginnivan posters clearly never watched him in the VFL. He sulked his way through games. We offered him a lesser contract than Hawks because of this. He wouldn’t play his team role - his admission was he found it hard. At Hawks he plays a different role with more freedom which looks good when they win but still undisciplined when they lose. He is not an elite player. He like Adams was told some home truths at the exit interview and he cracked it. The sulking continued after that. The club never got rid of Ginnivan. He was told shape up or ship out. He chose ship out.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[No SPIN]

No, not a short memory. Fly kept on saying that Ginnivan must work hard to gain respect. And he kept saying he is working hard in the VFL, and he should be ready when the opportunity arises. This was after his drug suspension.
Fly didn’t come out in support of Ginni when he kept getting crucified with head high tackles. Only that he should work through the issue.
Please, I really don’t care for your spin, nor whether he was traded or stayed.
We gave him away for baked beans. That is where we failed. He was worth a lot more than discounting our round 2 pick!!
And it was obvious we didn’t want him. That is my issue. We keep depreciating our team with poor trading!!!

If you base your judgement on yesterday of course he’s worth more.

But if he played closer to that form consistently he would never have been traded.

 

[Big Bryza]

Ginnivan is still a good player acting like a clown. Easier to get away with such behaviour in a small club who don’t attract clicks for the media. While we miss the pest factor on field we don’t miss the sideshow off field

Great great by Ginni yesterday, but he's a fair dinkum twat of a bloke.

The old humble in victory clearly doesn't apply and it won't be too long before he fcuks up off field again.

 

[slugger01]

If you base your judgement on yesterday of course he’s worth more.

But if he played closer to that form consistently he would never have been traded.

He is a premiership player. You know, a best 23 player that won your team a GF. And you think he was worth not only giving him away, but also giving away picks as well??
Your opinion is not worth reading anymore…. Sorry.

 

[cfc19902010]

It's the type of players that we are drafting that's the problem. Our players look under developed and less athletic than the better sides players. I wouldn't mind a fresh set of eyes in our recruiting

We definitely need overhaul
Hines done some nice things but we’ve been neglecting key position players for too long and had some bomb high draft picks
Refresh and replace recruiting team

 

[Lunchtime]

I heard a rumour that Peter Daicos rang the club and demanded they get Ginnivan away from his sons. I've heard another story from a reliable source that Pendles loves everybody in the club bar a certain individual and even one player who considers himself a friend of Jack, believed he was not good for the club. He may have turned over a new leaf or the Hawks might not give a stuff as long as he's playing great footy.

Can never understand why parents get involved...

 

[No SPIN]

He is a premiership player. You know, a best 23 player that won your team a GF. And you think he was worth not only giving him away, but also giving away picks as well??
Your opinion is not worth reading anymore…. Sorry.

I’m shattered

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Can never understand why parents get involved...

I never understand why people believe silly rumours.

 

[northcotehead]

Seems to be a few tangents going on here,

• did Ginni deserve to be traded? YES
• did we give him away for peanuts ? YES
• is Shoota a good replacement ? Ask that question in 5 years
• was Ginni acting like a twat yesterday?

That's just Ginni, we loved his antics when he played with us. Let's not be hypocrites.
So many things to play out from here, let's judge the clubs decision in a few years, not months.

 

[cakewalk06]

And another thing.. can one of you knowledgeable tactics types explain why we constantly handball into trouble? It's been doing my head in the past few weeks. Watching on TV you can see that they should not handball to player X as that player is already being sweated on by an opponent ... but then they do it anyway, like it's part of the game plan and they are on auto pilot. The oppo players seem to know what's happening before i happens!

 

[slugger01]

I’m shattered

I’m sure it’s not the first time you have felt like that.

Oh, and your spin is comical. Your last opinion was that Ginnivan would not have been traded if he played like he did yesterday. But all along, you were spinning his trade was because of his off field antics and attitude.

So now, that attitude would have been tolerated if he played like he did yesterday, even with his attitude??
Hypocrisy..

 

[Sco80]

Call me optimistic but if we beat Richmond, Carlton, Brisbane & Melbourne we make finals. We are still a chance!

It would be nice to try and defend the premiership

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

You must be on a yacht and in a multi million dollar house with a Ferrari in the drive way. Betting against the Pies every time we play the Hawks should have been very lucrative.

I didn’t put enough yesterday to make a lot

Especially given they were the favourite all week