Autopsy Round 23, 2024: Hawks smack Tigers

[Hawker55]

It's a nice stat but how many of those games since 2019 have been at the Gabba? None.

Brisbane are a completely different proposition at home and I wouldn't take them lightly, especially in a cut throat final.

I don’t know but the Brisbane thing isn’t just the MCG. They play a brand that suits us - they are slow and patient buildup relying on accurate kicking.

It lets us set up and cover our deficiency down back and then hit them hard on the break. I wouldn’t fear getting Brisbane.

 

[MtGHawk]

It's a nice stat but how many of those games since 2019 have been at the Gabba? None.

Brisbane are a completely different proposition at home and I wouldn't take them lightly, especially in a cut throat final.

Being a cut throat elimination final any team whether Bulldogs or Lions can beat us and vica versa. We know Sam M won't be taking any of these opponents lightly.

If we can get full four quarter consistency and tidy up some skill errors in front of goal that will go a long way in the next couple of weeks. As I've mentioned earlier though sitting 7th in round 23 is remarkable no matter what happens in the near future.

 

[MtGHawk]

I don’t know but the Brisbane thing isn’t just the MCG. They play a brand that suits us - they are slow and patient buildup relying on accurate kicking.

It lets us set up and cover our deficiency down back and then hit them hard on the break. I wouldn’t fear getting Brisbane.

My gut feel is I'd prefer Lions at Gabba than a red hot Footscray in Melbourne. Either way we are playing well enough to trouble either side.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

I think we're maturing a lot as a group.

One thing we don't know how to do is take the foot off slightly. That 5% drop off becomes a 20% drop off and the game changes a lot.

But we are smacking sides that we should beat. Can't remember the last time we dropped against a mid-table or lowly ranked side that we should win.

I would say right now, and based off the last few months we are the 4th or 5th best side in it. Yes the ladder in that period would have us 1st or 2nd but we're still vulnerable in a few ways and Sam keeps referring to the top sides in the comp and how we're not there yet.

 

[kazzooka]

Tough crowd in here.
Round 5 : can't see where out next win comes from
Round 23 : that was an average 10 goal win

Here's our reality. We have a bunch of kids running around and are still developing. As Sam always says "not a finished product".

To constantly have the expectation we are going to trounce opposition en route to a flag is unrealistic. For many of us, the season has been a raving flippin success Even on the off chance we lose to North and miss finals.
Some posts in this thread smack of entitlement. We still have a long way to go. Mitch is building this team to not just win 1 flag but repeat the dynasty he helped lead 10 years ago.

After round 5 Sam Mitchell said "were better than that. Those types of performances should be behind us" and he was right. Don't put a ceiling on us and don't accept mediocrity.

As a fan I was glad knowing we had a certain win against north in round 6.

We had a great first quarter, but the rest of the game was poor.

If you want to accept losing to North and missing finals as a success you can go follow Stkilda. We are 5 wins away from our 14th premiership and we need to strive to do everything possible to win the flag THIS YEAR. We cannot just assume that we will play finals in later years. We are in the 8 and only 2 of the top 8 sides have beaten us convincingly (Sydney and Geelong) and both are in shaky form.

Sure you can look at the ladder and think we are just scraping in to make up numbers but we truly are one of the best sides in it this year and can beat anyone on our day. We should be expecting to win the premiership, we do not have "a long way to go" if we did there'd be sides a long way ahead of us, and there aren't any.

 

[Buttonsticher]

My gut feel is I'd prefer Lions at Gabba than a red hot Footscray in Melbourne. Either way we are playing well enough to trouble either side.

And it gives me an excuse to spend a weekend in Queensland. Haven't been to the Gabba since it look ed like this

 

[Hawker55]

My gut feel is I'd prefer Lions at Gabba than a red hot Footscray in Melbourne. Either way we are playing well enough to trouble either side.

Yeah although it would be at the G which helps us against the Dogs.

And I also think going into games as underdogs helps us

 

[MtGHawk]

After round 5 Sam Mitchell said "were better than that. Those types of performances should be behind us" and he was right. Don't put a ceiling on us and don't accept mediocrity.

As a fan I was glad knowing we had a certain win against north in round 6.

We had a great first quarter, but the rest of the game was poor.

If you want to accept losing to North and missing finals as a success you can go follow Stkilda. We are 5 wins away from our 14th premiership and we need to strive to do everything possible to win the flag THIS YEAR. We cannot just assume that we will play finals in later years. We are in the 8 and only 2 of the top 8 sides have beaten us convincingly (Sydney and Geelong) and both are in shaky form.

Sure you can look at the ladder and think we are just scraping in to make up numbers but we truly are one of the best sides in it this year and can beat anyone on our day. We should be expecting to win the premiership, we do not have "a long way to go" if we did there'd be sides a long way ahead of us, and there aren't any.

I get where you are coming from but this all depends on another 4 points this week. With such an even top 8 anything can possibly happen like us winning a flag or possibly losing this week and missing out. Glass half full kinda guy here.

 

[flamin_heck]

Ginni has missed many sitters this year unfortunately.

To my eye it’s the one big thing I can see us getting rolled in a tight final- inefficiency in front of goal.. a lot of the younger guys (understandably) often don’t convert opportunities they probably should, I can totally envision playing Geelong and we kick 8.15 to their 10.5.. Cats generally make the very most of their opportunities in front of the sticks. Hawthorn have exceeded all expectations this year and it’s hard to be critical, especially being such a young team- would just love to see a few become dead eye in front of goal.

 

[Franko Armani]

One final thing before I hit the sack tonight, I just want to give big props to The Worpedo.

He’s had such a consistent year and was one of the few players to stand up in the first five weeks when we were playing pretty poorly.

I for one would be quite emotional if he won a second PCM this year, he plays the game like a rabid barracuda and he’s the heart and soul of this team in many ways.

Yep good call. I was thinking while watching the game yesterday that he’s just about been our most consistent and important player this season. Should win the PCM or tie with Moorey.

 

[scrim reaper]

I tend to weigh in when I'm at work on Monday morning, gives me an actual keyboard and some time for the emotion to subside a little, so here's my thoughts that no one asked for.

What a strange game. I came away from it like most of you thinking wow that was an awful 10 goal win, but there were actually a lot of positives now the dust has settled.

- As much as we lament wasted chances (and there were plenty) just because they absolutely suck doesn't mean we can't give any credit to the Tigers. Their lack of skills is painfully obvious but I thought their effort and pressure was decent and it was good for our boys to get a taste of scrappy, shit footy.

- Our first quarter was insane, and those kinds of bursts can win you finals very quickly. Melbourne in 2021 won the GF with a similar quick fire effort. All the best teams can turn it on and bury you quickly, so it was great to see that from us to that degree.

- I don't think you can discount how difficult it is to keep your head in the game after hearing your best player and one of your best friends has gone straight to hospital. Lots of doubts creep in about his health and what it means for him and our season in that moment. Then Mackenzie comes into the middle and eventually he misses a lot of game time with a head knock.

- Decent chance we are going to get an MCG elimination final. Hopefully that can be against a banged up Carlton rather than the dogs.

- Calsher Dear. Just everything about him.

- Jack Gunston

19

Jack Gunston

Age

32

Ht

193cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.5

4star

K

10.5

4star

HB

5.0

4star

M

5.7

5star

T

2.2

4star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.6

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

2.6

2star

M

4.3

4star

T

1.7

3star

G

1.6

5star

D

11.2

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

4.2

4star

M

3.2

4star

T

2.6

4star

G

0.6

3star

and Luke Breust

22

Luke Breust

Age

33

Ht

182cm

Wt

82kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.6

4star

K

8.0

3star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.4

3star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

4.0

3star

M

1.3

1star

T

4.8

5star

G

1.5

5star

D

9.8

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

2.4

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

1.8

5star

. Their experience is going to be invaluable in finals.

 

[eldorado]

Not sure about Newcombe's haircut

Jughead

 

[tommyk72]

Tough crowd in here.
Round 5 : can't see where out next win comes from
Round 23 : that was an average 10 goal win

Here's our reality. We have a bunch of kids running around and are still developing. As Sam always says "not a finished product".

To constantly have the expectation we are going to trounce opposition en route to a flag is unrealistic. For many of us, the season has been a raving flippin success Even on the off chance we lose to North and miss finals.
Some posts in this thread smack of entitlement. We still have a long way to go. Mitch is building this team to not just win 1 flag but repeat the dynasty he helped lead 10 years ago.

I think it’s less about entitlement, and more about having had the curtain drawn back and the true talent of this team revealed. Now that we’ve seen the ability - even in Q1 - anything less than that gets a little disappointing as we know how well the boys can play.

But you’re right, expecting them to be at 100% all game every game will lead to disappointment. It’s also not the MO of a first class side. We need to know when to have the pedal to the mental and when to conserve.

I also hope that Sam was playing with structures and game plan and got a lot out of being challenged in the 2nd and 3rd.

 

[tommyk72]

Unfortunately very few sides that earn a 50 point lead after the first quarter end up winning by 200 points

So true. Despite us all dreaming about it any time it happens

 

[Glacier]

I’m pretty sure I’d take a 10 goal win any day
The alternative is a loss

Are we really getting that far ahead of ourselves that a 10 goal win is something to be disappointed in ?

 

[tommyk72]

You’re 100% right. I still describe yesterday as a frustrating day at the footy because of all the circumstances - Day going down and West Coast failing dismally combining with our second and third quarters was a bit annoying. Definitely felt more philosophical about it all once Day was confirmed as no break.

Agree. With a little perspective, it’s more realistic to say a really frustrating day probably would have been us losing.

 

[Changa10]

Same screams in my section.

Same in my lounge room as he lined up for the around the corner kick, and again after he missed with a few extra expletives!

Kid is so exciting though isn't he?

 

[tommyk72]

I think we're maturing a lot as a group.

One thing we don't know how to do is take the foot off slightly. That 5% drop off becomes a 20% drop off and the game changes a lot.

But we are smacking sides that we should beat. Can't remember the last time we dropped against a mid-table or lowly ranked side that we should win.

I would say right now, and based off the last few months we are the 4th or 5th best side in it. Yes the ladder in that period would have us 1st or 2nd but we're still vulnerable in a few ways and Sam keeps referring to the top sides in the comp and how we're not there yet.

Agree we’re maturing as a group.

One thing I’d love more insight into is how our Half Forwards are deployed. Every match we see 1 or 2 of Moore, Ginni, McDonald pop up with 25 and 1-2. I wonder whether we make deliberate decisions about who that will be for a game, or whether it just evolves naturally as one gets off the chain.

They’re then complemented by the rotating midfielders. Such a great set up with soooo much run.

 

[flamin_heck]

Same in my lounge room as he lined up for the around the corner kick, and again after he missed with a few extra expletives!

Kid is so exciting though isn't he?

It’s the full experience with the Wiz. Excitement he’s taken a mark/ has a shot. Nervousness as he lines up. Pure frustration or joy depending on how it hits the boot. Muffled scream into my cuff yesterday afternoon after that snap to avoid my kids thinking Daddy’s a psycho

 

[Lickmesocks]

To my eye it’s the one big thing I can see us getting rolled in a tight final- inefficiency in front of goal.. a lot of the younger guys (understandably) often don’t convert opportunities they probably should, I can totally envision playing Geelong and we kick 8.15 to their 10.5.. Cats generally make the very most of their opportunities in front of the sticks. Hawthorn have exceeded all expectations this year and it’s hard to be critical, especially being such a young team- would just love to see a few become dead eye in front of goal.

You have nailed it and I agree. I can see us losing a final because of nerves in front of goal.

Ginni and Wizard have lost all confidence with a basic drop punt. You can see it in there faces when they have a shot from 40 directly in front. The wizard runs outside of gate 5 and back onto the ground before kicking it. Ginni has zero penetration in his drop punt. ( I can’t recall if it is his right or left knee that had a crack in it) but perhaps this is affecting his set shots.

They both would prefer to be kicking the ball around the corner and as we have seen with Mckay and Curnow in big games this falls apart under pressure.

 

[The Gulden Child]

I think the Hawks are starting to tire. Bring in a few fresh legs (CJ,?) next week v North. The following break will be perfect timing. Then look out.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

I think the Hawks are starting tire. Bring in a few fresh legs (CJ,?) next week v North. The following break will be perfect timing. Then look out.

Winning is the most important thing this week. If Scrimmers and Day are already out then other players, unless critically needed, can rest for roughly two weeks if we beat Norf.

 

[Yardie]

Not sure about Newcombe's haircut

My daughter and I discussed this during the game. We came to the conclusion that it is an "all business" haircut, no party at the back, ready for finals.

 

[Argy]

Right on MtGHawk, last year our forward line consisted of Fergus Greene, Denver, Chad and Kosi in the main forward positions. We had nothing coming through when Mitch Lewis was injured. In 12 months the transformation is incredible, but there’s still more to do.

I had not even given that second thought. When you put it that way, it's incredible how huge the transformation has been.

 

[KermitJagger]

I think the Hawks are starting tire. Bring in a few fresh legs (CJ,?) next week v North. The following break will be perfect timing. Then look out.

I'm not sure we're tiring that much, we just had 3 players miss the equivalent of a quarter of footy and one miss almost the entire game. Breust needed to be managed pretty heavily, Scrim and Cam both through injury and then the obvious one early to Day.

It wasn't quite the same as being a man down on the bench but it was close.