Game Day Round 5: Collingwood v St Kilda, Sunday 16 April, 4.50pm, AO

[Finnishpie]

Markov played 23 games in 5 seasons with Richmond, then 25 in 2 with Gold Coast. Yet some posters talk of him as though he is currently showing new traits. Let's not pretend there are any hidden areas of untapped talent. This talk of writing him off too early is nonsense. He has been in the public eye and scrutinised at 2 clubs over 8 years. The man is a known quantity. Known by us and the opposition. What you saw, and why he was delisted, is what you'll get.

What do the club think he has to offer a top 4 contender that someone else is not in a better position to give? Why weren't his previous 2 clubs happy to accept the bits of him that looked like they may assist the team's cause and take a risk at retaining with him those that didn't? To me, there is not a lot of faith being shown in the other contenders for his spot by selecting him. If looking for the weakest link if we lose, look no further.

You can never blame one player for a loss. This is a team game and to do so would show little understanding of how team sports with more than about 8 players work.

 

[jathanas]

It's a strange one. Markov offers a very different skillset to someone like Ruscoe or Wilson or McInness or whoever else is in line for selection. How can you assume it's favouritism rather than wanting Markov's skillset to be added to the system?

The fact that St Kilda play small & fast has nothing to do with it.

 

[Roverjg]

Have I ever played footy? Goodness! Isn't that an odd question!

The painful truth is that I was never a coach's favourite. Too surly. Lost count of the number of McDonalds vouchers I was robbed of.

And now you're suggesting that Fly has considered Markov on merit, but that friendship was the factor which swayed him in a 'line ball call'. There's a fair bit of assumption in that line of thinking, to put it very kindly.

Edit: As an added thought, as an alternate view, how about the idea that Fly believes that Markov has a role to play within our structure? He knows that Markov hasn't been banging the door down, but believes that --with a bit more opportunity-- Markov's value will show itself?

Seems more likely for mine.

Scodog didn't say "friendship" was the sole factor but it appears to be a large mitigating factor. Ruscoe has performed well and was BOG last week. Markov has not set the world on fire. So the coach may have picked Markov based on what he has seen him do in the past and hope he can replicate now rather than what he and Ruscoe are doing now.

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

I feel like these kinds of assumptions of perfectly rational decision-making is misguided. We have benefited plenty from players that failed at previous clubs

How did we benefit from his play last week?

 

[sr36]

Why? You’re replacing the best user by foot out of defence we have with one of the worst. If you’re looking for the same transition out of defence, being someone who will take, and is able to hit the difficult options by foot that will open up the ground I’d argue Ruscoe is a far superior option.

Ruscoe has been playing as a core defender and just can't offer the run. It's system versus execution. Markov can offer the same system, despite a massive drop off in execution. Personally, if they wanted to move Nick into the midfield and I think they should, I would bring Ruscoe in and play Crisp in Nick's role. But it's as good a time as any to roll Markov through there and see what he can offer. You can't wait until the finals to test out your depth.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

You can never blame one player for a loss. This is a team game and to do so would show little understanding of how team sports with more than about 8 players work.

He has played 7 years at top level. If he was a known team contributor and the two teams that let him go were wrong, we would know about it. Sorry, I am in the 'why play him?' camp.

 

[sr36]

He has played 7 years at top level. If he was a known team contributor and the two teams that let him go were wrong, we would know about it. Sorry, I am in the 'why play him?' camp.

He offers a different skillset to others in line for selection.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

He offers a different skillset to others in line for selection.

So show me how that unique skill set benefited the team last week?

 

[jmac70]

So show me how that unique skill set benefited the team last week?

Perhaps the coaches think he can do better than that tomorrow.

 

[sr36]

So show me how that unique skill set benefited the team last week?

He ran the lines giving us an option which enabled Nick to move into the midfield and give us a hope of getting back in the game.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

He ran the lines giving us an option which enabled Nick to move into the midfield and give us a hope of getting back in the game.

Did he do that and did we win the game?

 

[Fat Jesus]

What I noted from the short training video and what I have seen from Markov so far.
The bloke has some serious speed when he puts the afterburners on and he knows how to win the ball.
Our game plan revolves around winning the percentages of contested ground ball so as long as he keeps pumping the ball forward we are good.

Wilson impressive. Way better than I ever imagined.

Our game plan revolves around players with leg speed.
Oleg suits this game plan to a tee.

 

[sr36]

Did he do that and did we win the game?

Yeah he did that, but no we didn't win the game. Would you not play Nick in the midfield again, because we didn't win the game?

 

[stormskye]

Markov played 23 games in 5 seasons with Richmond, then 25 in 2 with Gold Coast. Yet some posters talk of him as though he is currently showing new traits. Let's not pretend there are any hidden areas of untapped talent. This talk of writing him off too early is nonsense. He has been in the public eye and scrutinised at 2 clubs over 8 years. The man is a known quantity. Known by us and the opposition. What you saw, and why he was delisted, is what you'll get.

What do the club think he has to offer a top 4 contender that someone else is not in a better position to give? Why weren't his previous 2 clubs happy to accept the bits of him that looked like they may assist the team's cause and take a risk at retaining with him those that didn't? To me, there is not a lot of faith being shown in the other contenders for his spot by selecting him. If looking for the weakest link if we lose, look no further.

Lippa and d Cameron were in the outer at their clubs. Hell, even frampton can be included although early. I am concerned with Markov’s disposal having watched him at vfl, but happy to give him a chance. A huge part of saints improvement is Lyon allowing players to just play roles and play to their strengths. That’s the same with us in many respects .

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

What I noted from the short training video and what I have seen from Markov so far.
The bloke has some serious speed when he puts the afterburners on and he knows how to win the ball.
Our game plan revolves around winning the percentages of contested ground ball so as long as he keeps pumping the ball forward we are good.

Wilson impressive. Way better than I ever imagined.

Our game plan revolves around players with leg speed.
Oleg suits this game plan to a tee.

Exactly..and Fly always emphasises that he doesn't care about the mistakes..just stick to what we know and keep doing it. Bolton is always yelling that out at training.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Yeah he did that, but no we didn't win the game. Would you not play Nick in the midfield again, because we didn't win the game?

I would play someone other than Markov who hadn't gone through 2 clubs who found something decidedly wanting in him, and tried a fresh approach with a new player who could potentially release Nick to the midfield. We could do no worse than lose the game again and would at least give the opposition more to cogitate than is the case playing Markov.

 

[sr36]

Lippa and d Cameron were in the outer at their clubs. Hell, even frampton can be included although early. I am concerned with Markov’s disposal having watched him at vfl, but happy to give him a chance. A huge part of saints improvement is Lyon allowing players to just play roles and play to their strengths. That’s the same with us in many respects .

If he comes good, he sure as hell won't be the only bloke who underperformed whilst at Gold Coast.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

What I noted from the short training video and what I have seen from Markov so far.
The bloke has some serious speed when he puts the afterburners on and he knows how to win the ball.
Our game plan revolves around winning the percentages of contested ground ball so as long as he keeps pumping the ball forward we are good.

Wilson impressive. Way better than I ever imagined.

Our game plan revolves around players with leg speed.
Oleg suits this game plan to a tee.

So we'll get our answer after the game. Known leg speed which was not enough to keep him at 2 clubs versus blind hope that he can produce something he hasn't with 7 years at 2 clubs. If we succeed, and Frampton continues to show form, we could become the Moneyball team of the AFL, ditch our stars, and get blokes cheaply to play roles.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

So we'll get our answer after the game. Known leg speed which was not enough to keep him at 2 clubs versus blind hope that he can produce something he hasn't with 7 years at 2 clubs. If we succeed, and Frampton continues to show form, we could become the Moneyball team of the AFL, ditch our stars, and get blokes cheaply to play roles.

Some coaches, environments & systems just get better results from some players. And that can include the 'stars' and the 'cheaper blokes who play roles'.. successful teams have a combination.

 

[mwhop]

Markov played 23 games in 5 seasons with Richmond, then 25 in 2 with Gold Coast. Yet some posters talk of him as though he is currently showing new traits. Let's not pretend there are any hidden areas of untapped talent. This talk of writing him off too early is nonsense. He has been in the public eye and scrutinised at 2 clubs over 8 years. The man is a known quantity. Known by us and the opposition. What you saw, and why he was delisted, is what you'll get.

What do the club think he has to offer a top 4 contender that someone else is not in a better position to give? Why weren't his previous 2 clubs happy to accept the bits of him that looked like they may assist the team's cause and take a risk at retaining with him those that didn't? To me, there is not a lot of faith being shown in the other contenders for his spot by selecting him. If looking for the weakest link if we lose, look no further.

I agree with this. I cannot fathom why we would be using this guy as anything other than depth. Right now there's a lot of blokes ready to take the next step at AFL level, and we are missing the bigger picture by putting games into a guy with a low ceiling. Really puzzling decision from my perspective.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

I agree with this. I cannot fathom why we would be using this guy as anything other than depth. Right now there's a lot of blokes ready to take the next step at AFL level, and we are missing the bigger picture by putting games into a guy with a low ceiling. Really puzzling decision from my perspective.

Who would be ready to take the next step in defence this week? Ruscoe? He may be the sub. Ryan? He's injured and not ready.

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Some coaches, environments & systems just get better results from some players. And that can include the 'stars' and the 'cheaper blokes who play roles'.. successful teams have a combination.

As I stated, we'll know after the game if we have a special Moneyball talent with selection that the other 17 clubs don't. I just want to go on record as being underwhelmed and unconvinced. I hope I am wrong.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

As I stated, we'll know after the game if we have a special Moneyball talent with selection that the other 17 clubs don't. I just want to go on record as being underwhelmed and unconvinced. I hope I am wrong.

I hope you're wrong too

 

[mwhop]

Who would be ready to take the next step in defence this week? Ruscoe? He may be the sub. Ryan? He's injured and not ready.

Those are two I had in mind.
So you are saying none of our younger players are runners and are fit right now?

 

[Fat Jesus]

As I stated, we'll know after the game if we have a special Moneyball talent with selection that the other 17 clubs don't. I just want to go on record as being underwhelmed and unconvinced. I hope I am wrong.

We will assess Oleg by seasons end. All players deserve that.

The shite poor Murphy was copping and look at him now.