Autopsy Saints v Cats - AFL Rd 23, 2024 - Sat August 17th 7:30pm - (Marvel)

[Mat Mann]

Disclaimer: I actually don’t have a problem with his style. I don’t like any style of football over another. I can get as much pleasure out of a low scoring game as I can from a high scoring one so long as there’s intensity to it and pressure. Doesn’t bother me. It’s probably the league fan in me where defence is just as entertaining as attack

But as a general observer of how people talk about him I don’t think it’s limited to Cats fans.

how many atrocious games have we seen, Friday night game was 30 odd points each at 1/2 time and there wasn't a peep about low scoring bland boring footy, every team runs 15+ players in 1/2 the ground yet it's only Ross that gets slammed, the actual difference between game styles of teams is minimal. The hysteria on Ross will continue without substance.

100 points kicked in 3 of the last 5 games, 1 of the others was 99

 

[austinnn]

Would be impossible to answer. We have a club hierarchy of list manager, head recruiter, footy GM, CEO and president that believe in the principles of never bottoming out, always trying to contend.

So we'd need a coach that is on board with that and because that limits access to high end talent it'd need to be someone, or a team of coaches that are good at developing players, being willing to try players and persist with them. Not be a coach that's wedded to a game style that relies on personnel. Would need to be a coach whose style is flexible and changes based on the structure of the team that the draft and trade period provides. Would need to be someone not afraid to experiment with positional changes to maximise players later in the draft that would clearly have exposable flaws.

Finding someone who ticks those boxes wouldn't be easy.

I get the theory, I'm wondering if you'd look at one of your lieutenants, or outside the club, and which one of Scott's assistants most fits the bill.

 

[PhatBoy]

how many atrocious games have we seen, Friday night game was 30 odd points each at 1/2 time and there wasn't a peep about low scoring bland boring footy, every team runs 15+ players in 1/2 the ground yet it's only Ross that gets slammed, the actual difference between game styles of teams is minimal. The hysteria on Ross will continue without substance.

100 points kicked in 3 of the last 5 games, 1 of the others was 99

The fact is - and again I’m not saying I subscribe to it - if it was a recurring thing with his teams even up until right now, it’s something that goes back a long time. That’s what sticks in people’s memories and the fact that in got those teams very close but not quite over the line

I guess what pissed people off more about him in particular than maybe other coaches who may have coached lower scoring sides at various stages over the last 15 or so years is that he probably had teams at his disposal who had the tools to be a bit more attacking if they wanted to go down that route. Like I said it’s never bothered me I loved watching the past St Kilda team in particular when it had Nick, Lenny, Goddard etc

 

[austinnn]

how many atrocious games have we seen, Friday night game was 30 odd points each at 1/2 time and there wasn't a peep about low scoring bland boring footy, every team runs 15+ players in 1/2 the ground yet it's only Ross that gets slammed, the actual difference between game styles of teams is minimal. The hysteria on Ross will continue without substance.

100 points kicked in 3 of the last 5 games, 1 of the others was 99

The closer to finals, the more these types of games appear.

 

[Plugger35]

The fact is - and again I’m not saying I subscribe to it - if it was a recurring thing with his teams even up until right now, it’s something that goes back a long time. That’s what sticks in people’s memories and the fact that in got those teams very close but not quite over the line

I guess what pissed people off more about him in particular than maybe other coaches who may have coached lower scoring sides at various stages over the last 15 or so years is that he probably had teams at his disposal who had the tools to be a bit more attacking if they wanted to go down that route. Like I said it’s never bothered me I loved watching the past St Kilda team in particular when it had Nick, Lenny, Goddard etc

Were Geelong that much more attacking in the 2009 GF? We were more attacking in the first half but just butchered chances.

The second half was a low scoring slog in wet conditions where goals were at a premium and Geelong just got lucky to win it.

That game could have gone either way in the last quarter, not just the lucky toe poke goal but Schneider was robbed of a blatant head high free kick in front of goal probably due to him sarcastically clapping the umpires in a previous game.

Not to mention the obvious Hawkins poster in the first half that was paid a goal when Blind Freddy could see it hit the post.

Besides all that we beat Geelong at Marvel earlier that year in one of the best H&A games of all time with both teams attacking.

It's a myth that Ross Lyon only coaches defensively and he is the only coach that does it, he can coach attacking football too.

As we saw in the second half tonight but most Geelong supporters probably didn't watch that much of that in the last quarter.

 

[PhatBoy]

Were Geelong that much more attacking in the 2009 GF? We were more attacking in the first half but just butchered chances.

The second half was a low scoring slog in wet conditions where goals were at a premium and Geelong just got lucky to win it.

That game could have gone either way in the last quarter, not just the lucky toe poke goal but Schneider was robbed of a blatant head high free kick in front of goal probably due to him sarcastically clapping the umpires in a previous game.

Not to mention the obvious Hawkins poster in the first half that was paid a goal when Blind Freddy could see it hit the post.

Besides all that we beat Geelong at Marvel earlier that year in one of the best H&A games of all time with both teams attacking.

It's a myth that Ross Lyon only coaches defensively and he is the only coach that does it, he can coach attacking football too.

As we saw in the second half tonight but most Geelong supporters probably didn't watch that much of that in the last quarter.

You scored 120-odd less points than us in the home and away season, 200 less than the Dogs, even Carlton who finished seventh scored 80 more than you, and a handful of other sides not in the same hemisphere as you for talent scored roughly the same as you. You had an awesome team of players and Isolated examples don’t change that. Neither does your whinging especially when you ignore the free goal you got because Darren Milburn was penalised for dissent and you were handed an extra goal right before half time, as another poster observed in this very thread.

I wouldn’t cast too much shade at fair weather supporters who didn’t take kindly to the second half of a game they were watching tonight considering you still can’t handle five extra points being awarded in one that was played a decade and a half ago.

As I said I personally don’t give a shit as a spectator it doesn’t bother me one bit, they were great to watch. But other people obviously don’t feel the same way and it remains a fact that his core philosophy was and always has been defence first.


And here’s a tip: when you criticise a team for not attacking more themselves? Best not to cite a game where the ball was in their defensive 50 60 times and the opposition tackle count was 118, in wet weather.

Those circumstances generally make it hard for any team to have a particularly ‘attack at all costs’ mindset

 

[Sarcoidevo]

Saints give the Cats a 5 gosl head start and then absolutely bury them

Saints turned up the heat and the Cats turned into a river of melted butter

Has their ever been a more undeserving softer side to make the Top 4 .... straight sets beckons!!

 

[Osho]

Just for the record Saints, after instigating the Cats mini onslaught end of q2 by switching over to watch, I turned the telly off at half time, read a book, and only checked scores again once the game was well and truly over.

What do you know. Saints go on a quantum rampage without my observation screwing it up! Weird as hell!

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm starting to think those Cats fans might be right

Wilson is a jet, the Saint supporter who made the opposing claim must've been laughing at themselves as the game progressed.

 

[The 747]

Credit to the Saints, they made us look silly in the second half and completely buried us.

Our midfield remains the major weakness.

 

[Mr Meow]

It must be demoralising for Cats supporters talking up Chris Scott as the great attacking coach and he gets beaten at his own game in the second half by boring old defensive Ross Lyon.

He isn't called Ross the Boss for no reason, he taught Chris Scott a coaching lesson tonight and it was don't mess with the best.

Many Cats supporters were nervous headed into this one. Outside of one poor showing at home against Brisbane, St Kilda have been back to their 2023 form since about round 12 and are hard to beat at Marvel.

The rest is all noise and in reality your points address two angry posters. You haven't seen 30 jump in. The writing was on the wall about 10 minutes into the 3rd quarter.

Demoralising is an overstatement. The loss tonight was buffered by a crucial win on the road in Perth last week, and Brisbane choking earlier in the day. Don't act like you wouldn't dream of the opportunity for St Kilda to finish in the top 4 again, no matter how unlikely a flag still seems from there. St Kilda always treat these games against Geelong as grand finals but your season was done and dusted a while ago.

 

[Mr Meow]

Saints give the Cats a 5 gosl head start and then absolutely bury them

Saints turned up the heat and the Cats turned into a river of melted butter

Has their ever been a more undeserving softer side to make the Top 4 .... straight sets beckons!!

All of that can be true and it can also be embarrassing for St Kilda to have crumpled this season after finishing 6th in 2023. The league is weaker this year which is how a team like Geelong can be thereabouts. So a bit of self reflection on your own club's big missed opportunity is just as welcome.

 

[Mr Meow]

Were Geelong that much more attacking in the 2009 GF? We were more attacking in the first half but just butchered chances.

The second half was a low scoring slog in wet conditions where goals were at a premium and Geelong just got lucky to win it.

That game could have gone either way in the last quarter, not just the lucky toe poke goal but Schneider was robbed of a blatant head high free kick in front of goal probably due to him sarcastically clapping the umpires in a previous game.

Not to mention the obvious Hawkins poster in the first half that was paid a goal when Blind Freddy could see it hit the post.

Besides all that we beat Geelong at Marvel earlier that year in one of the best H&A games of all time with both teams attacking.

It's a myth that Ross Lyon only coaches defensively and he is the only coach that does it, he can coach attacking football too.

As we saw in the second half tonight but most Geelong supporters probably didn't watch that much of that in the last quarter.

Let's not rewrite history.

In the 2009 grand final, Geelong doubled St Kilda's score in the second half. 3.4 to 0.3 in the last quarter. The Saints ran out of puff and if it went another 15 minutes Geelong likely would've scored another 3 goals.

Yes St Kilda spurned some chances in the first half, but nowhere near as many as Geelong did in 2008. Yet no Geelong supporter says "Hawthorn just got lucky to win it". The more skilled and clinical side won, and they were also the side running over the opposition as the game progressed. That was true for 2008. Just as true for 2009.

 

[Sarcoidevo]

All of that can be true and it can also be embarrassing for St Kilda to have crumpled this season after finishing 6th in 2023. The league is weaker this year which is how a team like Geelong can be thereabouts. So a bit of self reflection on your own club's big missed opportunity is just as welcome.

Smashed by injury & suspension in the 1st half of the season .... 6 of those games we lost by 10pts of less

There will only be one of us playing Finals next year ... and it won't be you

 

[Mr Meow]

Smashed by injury & suspension in the 1st half of the season .... 6 of those games we lost by 10pts of less

There will only be one of us playing Finals next year ... and it won't be you

Shouldn't you actually aim beyond that and challenge for a premiership? Or would you rather a 60 year drought turn into a 100 year one?

St Kilda have as many holes in their list as Geelong, who are at least only a couple of seasons off a premiership and have 4 flags over the past 17 years while receiving almost no top 10 picks since. What's St Kilda's excuse? They have been fairly poor, with the odd decent season, since about 2011.

 

[Verdun]

Everyone likes the Saints and Ross Lyon. Everyone likes teams and coaches who don't succeed. It makes it easier for those trying to.

Lots of people don't like Geelong and don't like Chris Scott.

Oh the irony.


How to show your lack of class as a supporter after a loss with a post like this (interspersed with multiple others just to enforce the point).

There are some Cat supporters on here with some humility and class, this one ain't one of them.

 

[Bunnings]

Saints give the Cats a 5 gosl head start and then absolutely bury them

Saints turned up the heat and the Cats turned into a river of melted butter

Has their ever been a more undeserving softer side to make the Top 4 .... straight sets beckons!!

If Geelong are so ordinary and soft why are you on here getting all perpendicular over a win against them?

Cats are top 4 in a rebuilding year and most cats fans are watching having a giggle.

 

[Verdun]

If Geelong are so ordinary and soft why are you on here getting all perpendicular over a win against them?

Cats are top 4 in a rebuilding year and most cats fans are watching having a giggle.

Expect it is a response to some of the arrogance shown before, during and after the game yesterday.

'having a giggle'

 

[Bunnings]

Expect it is a response to some of the arrogance shown before, during and after the game yesterday.

'having a giggle'

We are not having a giggle, I misspoke, it is frustrating, but do we think this (the cats) a top 4 side? Nope.

 

[MickG88]

All of that can be true and it can also be embarrassing for St Kilda to have crumpled this season after finishing 6th in 2023. The league is weaker this year which is how a team like Geelong can be thereabouts. So a bit of self reflection on your own club's big missed opportunity is just as welcome.

We overachiever last year and this year we aren't that far off. We are 12 points out of the top 8, eith a bunch of games that were decided by less than a goal. Change those to wins and we are right back in the finals. The games that have hurt us are Brisbane and Dogs.

 

[MickG88]

Shouldn't you actually aim beyond that and challenge for a premiership? Or would you rather a 60 year drought turn into a 100 year one?

St Kilda have as many holes in their list as Geelong, who are at least only a couple of seasons off a premiership and have 4 flags over the past 17 years while receiving almost no top 10 picks since. What's St Kilda's excuse? They have been fairly poor, with the odd decent season, since about 2011.

Can you elaborate on these list holes both Saints and Geelong have? I know the Saints list holes but am interested what list holes Geelong have in your opinion.

 

[MickG88]

If Geelong are so ordinary and soft why are you on here getting all perpendicular over a win against them?

Cats are top 4 in a rebuilding year and most cats fans are watching having a giggle.

Rebuild year?

List analysis: Where your club ranks for age and experience

Who has the oldest list, who has the youngest, and which club has the most experience heading into 2024?

www.afl.com.au

 

[Verdun]

We are not having a giggle, I misspoke, it is frustrating, but do we think this (the cats) a top 4 side? Nope.

Cheers Bunnings - good post.

 

[Kram]

Why are there so many Cats fans here livid about Ross Lyon and his football? Who made these guys such footy puritans? Infamous Cats fan Gerard Wheatley is the same, regularly telling the 360 viewers just how unwatchable Saints games are. Hope he's not feeling too forlorn tonight. Looking forward to his analysis of the game behind gritted teeth on Monday.

I find it odd it's specifically Geelong supporters. Ross Lyon lives rent free in so many of their heads, it's no wonder he got into the real estate biz.

Most of them are dorks like Whatelely that were too weak and scared to ever have a crack at playing footy themselves, yet somehow think they are now experts on the game

 

[Saint Kidding]

Saints fans, do you actually like Lyon football? Because I can't imagine how you can enjoy watching this every goddamn week, especially when you usually lose.

Yep, loved it!