Autopsy Wheels falling off? 2 point loss to the Saints

[lazy77]

We won’t win the flag. We can’t win the close ones even against mediocre teams and it’s become far too easy to shut us down. All you have to do against us is keep chipping it short and running into space. We usually don’t bother to chase. Shut down Blakey and Warner and we’re all at sea, because suddenly there’s no rebound and our forwards lack the ability to keep the ball in the forward 50 or even take a contested mark. And our defensive structure is suddenly all over the place. It’s amazing how both Fremantle and St Kilda were able to take so many uncontested marks and shoot from 20 metres right in front. By contrast, our shots were always from 50 out or in the pocket. There were very few gimmes.

 

[Freo]

Back in the days when Norm Smith was coach of South, emblazoned across the back wall of the change rooms in huge red letters was a sign that said "FIRST COMES PRIDE, THEN THE FALL"

How prophetic!

Sent from my Pixel 8 Pro using Tapatalk

Proverbs and Isaiah

 

[The King!]

We won’t win the flag. We can’t win the close ones even against mediocre teams and it’s become far too easy to shut us down. All you have to do against us is keep chipping it short and running into space. We usually don’t bother to chase. Shut down Blakey and Warner and we’re all at sea, because suddenly there’s no rebound and our forwards lack the ability to keep the ball in the forward 50 or even take a contested mark. And our defensive structure is suddenly all over the place. It’s amazing how both Fremantle and St Kilda were able to take so many uncontested marks and shoot from 20 metres right in front. By contrast, our shots were always from 50 out or in the pocket. There were very few gimmes.

If it's so easy to shut us down why did Freo and Stkilda leave it until the last minute to win?

Should we shut up shop then? Blood the kids?

 

[Kbroome]

All im suggesting is 1 or 2 targetted changes to get the pressure ramped right back up in the forward 50 because if that occurs then the disposals the opposition have will be more error-prone and allow for our subsequent ball use to be less pressured

 

[rustycrate]

But some of these drastic measures probably don't satisfy the cause. We could've easily won both these games despite the performance, and there were some games in our streak where we weren't as good as the scoreboard and form reflected (Essendon, Freo away, Adelaide, WB, WC). I don't think we are any more 'worked out' now than what we were before. Our system and method when executed well is exceptional - sometimes we're very efficient with it, sometimes we're not so but still manage to get over the line, or like the last two games just fall short. Some of the structural changes people are calling for will limit our ability to execute imo.

I might sound like I'm giving individual players too much credit by saying that but I truly believe 1 or 2 players can be the difference. Adams + Cunningham today would've won us the game. Wicks v Richmond would've won us the game. And I think Parker in for Wicks will completely **** us up.

Agree with the Parker for Wicks **** us up theory.

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

If it's so easy to shut us down why did Freo and Stkilda leave it until the last minute to win?

Should we shut up shop then? Blood the kids?

Bugger we had a good run onwards to the offseason!!

 

[lazy77]

Today we probably deserved to win comfortably in terms of the state of play, the reality is we kicked ourselves out of the game. Had amartey slotted his piss easy chance in the last we probably coast to another ticked off win and not think too hard about drastic changes despite the same performance.

Today we deserved to lose by much more than 2 points in terms of state of play. St Kilda controlled the whole game apart from the last 10 minutes of the first half. The scoring shots are misleading. St Kilda’s were a lot closer and easier. They consistently got into better positions and beat us all over the ground. It was a pathetic performance from a supposed premiership fancy.

 

[McRobie]

I said some changes were needed to make a statement regarding complacency, y’all laughed at it.
Still feel the same?

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Agree with the Parker for Wicks **** us up theory.

Less about individuals more about the whole team across the board we are well down compared to earlier rounds.

No reason we cant get there again unless we are physically unable to? surely we can do better than 40 tackles tho??

 

[caesar88]

All im suggesting is 1 or 2 targetted changes to get the pressure ramped right back up in the forward 50 because if that occurs then the disposals the opposition have will be more error-prone and allow for our subsequent ball use to be less pressured

Problem is that those players people are wanting to come back (Parker, Mills) won't help with the pressure thing at all. Through no fault of his own, Parker is not gonna be able to chase, corral or cause chaos. He just doesn't have the speed and will get burnt off by any opponent who does have it.

 

[zyzzbruh]

Today we deserved to lose by much more than 2 points in terms of state of play. St Kilda controlled the whole game apart from the last 10 minutes of the first half. The scoring shots are misleading. St Kilda’s were a lot closer and easier. They consistently got into better positions and beat us all over the ground. It was a pathetic performance from a supposed premiership fancy.

Ah well. Richmond lost to a similarly abysmal stkilda by 120 points in the year they won the granny. We'll be right.

 

[The King!]

**** I hate the deserved to lose by more or got lucky to win or anyway to change the gravity of the result good and bad.

The result is the result!

 

[Kbroome]

Using Wheelorating Swans have a +412 metres gained per game difference this year but in the last 5 that is down to +189.6. Coinciding with the tackles and the pressure acts were roughly +7.9 in the first 11 games of the year and in the last 5 it is -26.2 (third worst in the comp).

 

[The King!]

Problem is that those players people are wanting to come back (Parker, Mills) won't help with the pressure thing at all. Through no fault of his own, Parker is not gonna be able to chase, corral or cause chaos. He just doesn't have the speed and will get burnt off by any opponent who does have it.

Parker also needs to show he can play a role and not try to do everything

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Using Wheelorating Swans have a +412 metres gained per game difference this year but in the last 5 that is down to +189.6. Coinciding with the tackles and the pressure acts were roughly +7.9 in the first 11 games of the year and in the last 5 it is -26.2 (third worst in the comp).

Wowwwww wtf has happened for that drop off?

 

[McRobie]

40 tackles for the game screams physical fatigue too. Looks like the time has come where we might need to start rotating a few, cause I'm guessing we've probably played the fewest number of players in the comp for the year til this point.

We are 3 games off a bye. 40 tackles screams attitude issue.

 

[The King!]

Using Wheelorating Swans have a +412 metres gained per game difference this year but in the last 5 that is down to +189.6. Coinciding with the tackles and the pressure acts were roughly +7.9 in the first 11 games of the year and in the last 5 it is -26.2 (third worst in the comp).

Wheelo ratings on their overall team ratings gave us a positive overall rating increase today and Stkilda a minus that's odd

 

[Troystenvic]

Wowwwww wtf has happened for that drop off?

It's a long season, we aren't going to be perfect. IF we win the flag no-one is going to really remember Round 17.

Do you remember our losses in 05 and 12. I don't.

 

[Kbroome]

Wowwwww wtf has happened for that drop off?

Not one specific player but literally everyone is down 1-2 which has caused the 35 pressure act swap. Indicating its an overall team thing and we said it last week and it seems to have happened again that their not playing as a unit and being a tad bit lazy

 

[Wheresbuddy]

Does it feel like wins and losses have become these massive reckonings they never used to be?

I feel like growing up Hawthorn might lose to Fitzroy,Brisbane drop a game to Essendon etc etc and they were top, won the flag and no one really got worked up over it

Back in the day, there was no bigfooty to vent

 

[Dubai Quacker]

But some of these drastic measures probably don't satisfy the cause. We could've easily won both these games despite the performance, and there were some games in our streak where we weren't as good as the scoreboard and form reflected (Essendon, Freo away, Adelaide, WB, WC). I don't think we are any more 'worked out' now than what we were before. Our system and method when executed well is exceptional - sometimes we're very efficient with it, sometimes we're not so but still manage to get over the line, or like the last two games just fall short. Some of the structural changes people are calling for will limit our ability to execute imo.

I might sound like I'm giving individual players too much credit by saying that but I truly believe 1 or 2 players can be the difference. Adams + Cunningham today would've won us the game. Wicks v Richmond would've won us the game. And I think Parker in for Wicks will completely **** us up.

I can’t agree.

Wicks is a very limited player & there’s a weird view on here I’ve never understood that he is a high-pressure forward, despite laying few tackles and rarely pressuring an opposing defender into a dump kick.

Parker is a multiple time club champion who provides a strong marking target, a reliable set-shot, strong tackling presence AND real on-field leadership.

I view 2024 Parker as still being an upgrade on Wicks - even though I know many here won’t agree.

 

[The King!]

Back in the day, there was no bigfooty to vent

Meant the media analysis and headlines

 

[Olian]

Today we deserved to lose by much more than 2 points in terms of state of play. St Kilda controlled the whole game apart from the last 10 minutes of the first half. The scoring shots are misleading. St Kilda’s were a lot closer and easier. They consistently got into better positions and beat us all over the ground. It was a pathetic performance from a supposed premiership fancy.

Watch the game again or even for the first time. Scoring shots isn’t misleading when you have 11 in a row.

 

[caesar88]

Parker also needs to show he can play a role and not try to do everything

I wouldn't be completely against playing him as a defensive mid at centre bounces. Putting body on his opponent, laying blocks, opening up space etc. He did this in the back end of 2022 which was when our midfield looked at its most competitive at any stage prior to this year. I feel like this is the sort of player we are lacking at centre bounces at present, and we're getting on the backfoot because of it.

Would say Mills for this, but I want him in defence to reinforce down back.

So maybe Parker in the mids for Heeney. Heeney inside 50 for Wicks as he's faster than Parker and could do with being rested there anyway.

But for next week I'd just go unchanged. Back the boys in one more time and see what they produce.

 

[Kbroome]

I can’t agree.

Wicks is a very limited player & there’s a weird view on here I’ve never understood that he is a high-pressure forward, despite laying few tackles and rarely pressuring an opposing defender into a dump kick.

Parker is a multiple time club champion who provides a strong marking target, a reliable set-shot, strong tackling presence AND real on-field leadership.

I view 2024 Parker as still being an upgrade on Wicks - even though I know many here won’t agree.

Wicks 1 tackle - 0 inside 50

His key stats as a "pressure forward" are below and look at the drop off