Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

[Defacto]

Every player is having meetings at club today and tomorrow before going on holidays Thursday. Believe all will be told of their future then.

best post in this thread. good to hear this type of stuff. i imagine we will start to hear about more delistings then over the next couple of days?

 

[hayes]

Yeah I like it. No point stuffing around.

 

[Strahany]

Do not want Grundy, and it's simple why.

We've got both McEvoy, 23 and Stanley, 21; young up and comers. The club has invested a lot of time into the both of them, and has signed them both up for long deals.

Suppose we take Grundy, who is a number one ruck. In three years time, when he is beginning to hit his straps and will be demanding more game time, McEvoy and Stanley will be in their prime. In today's game, you can only afford to have two ruck-type players; no matter how agile Stanley and Grundy may be.

That will leave us with one of Stanley, McEvoy, or Grundy stagnating in the two's, and all three of them will be far, far too good to be in that situation. It's a waste for the club, and it's a waste for the individual. None of them are merely "back up" quality.

So, if we draft Grundy, one of Stanley or McEvoy is going to have to be traded, or risk wasting talent in the 2's, or even losing one of them for (next to) nothing if they walk out due to a lack of opportunity (a la Ball).

To accommodate for Grundy, we'd be losing a quality player. So, assuming Grundy does turn out to be a star, we're only making a small upgrade on what we already have. However, if we draft a midfielder, KPD, or KPF, that will be a huge upgrade on what we have, as we don't have a full line of exceptional quality in any of those areas.

So, you want Grundy? Pick either McEvoy or Stanley to offload.

I'd prefer neither.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Or we trade Grundy down the line for a player that would fill a need for us.

 

[hayes]

Do not want Grundy, and it's simple why.

We've got both McEvoy, 23 and Stanley, 21; young up and comers. The club has invested a lot of time into the both of them, and has signed them both up for long deals.

Suppose we take Grundy, who is a number one ruck. In three years time, when he is beginning to hit his straps and will be demanding more game time, McEvoy and Stanley will be in their prime. In today's game, you can only afford to have two ruck-type players; no matter how agile Stanley and Grundy may be.

That will leave us with one of Stanley, McEvoy, or Grundy stagnating in the two's, and all three of them will be far, far too good to be in that situation. It's a waste for the club, and it's a waste for the individual. None of them are merely "back up" quality.

So, if we draft Grundy, one of Stanley or McEvoy is going to have to be traded, or risk wasting talent in the 2's, or even losing one of them for (next to) nothing if they walk out due to a lack of opportunity (a la Ball).

To accommodate for Grundy, we'd be losing a quality player. So, assuming Grundy does turn out to be a star, we're only making a small upgrade on what we already have. However, if we draft a midfielder, KPD, or KPF, that will be a huge upgrade on what we have, as we don't have a full line of exceptional quality in any of those areas.

So, you want Grundy? Pick either McEvoy or Stanley to offload.

I'd prefer neither.

I think the idea would be to draft him to eventually be traded. If he's the next Cox that would probably get us multiple picks. Would have to be patient but it could really pay off down the line.

I'm a bit like you though and would probably prefer to take a young talented mid or key position player rather than a ruck, but I doubt he'd fall to us anyway if he's as good as advertised.

 

[Strahany]

Or we trade Grundy down the line for a player that would fill a need for us.

Too many variables involved.

We'd be using our pick, hoping that Grundy's potential converts into actual ability, which also relies on us developing him properly.

Then we'l need to find a club that a) Wants to give up their up and coming KPP or midfielder, and b) Will accept Grundy. And all that relies on both that KPP/midfielder agreeing to join us, whilst having Grundy agreeing to go to the other club.


I'd much rather take the KPP/midfielder directly with our own pick. Less risk involved and establishes him as a St Kilda person, and then the whole "one club player" thing (which can be a really strong motivator for some individuals) will come into play down the line, if he has offers elsewhere.

 

[StFly]

best post in this thread. good to hear this type of stuff. i imagine we will start to hear about more delistings then over the next couple of days?

Delistings & retirements will often come before teams leave on holidays, list #2 will then come after where you have the "last chance saloon" types vacating and these will generally be also up for trading if they're retained.

So the "expectation" would be Peake & Polo being named as delisted -> holiday -> Jones being delisted or retained to be traded via L2. (using names often thrown up) You then have another reshuffle of sorts with FA where players can "walk" if unrestricted (Moloney has informed Melbourne he's FA as an eg) whilst the restricteds generally get negotiated between involved parties.

 

[stkildathunda]

ST KILDA veteran Justin Koschitzke will remain at St Kilda for at least another season.
Koschitzke, 30 this month, is an unrestricted free agent and could have joined the club of his choice.
But his manager James Pitcher, of Strategic Management Solutions, told The Age the ruckman-forward would remain with the Saints.
"He will remain at St Kilda for at least another year," Pitcher said.
Advertisement
"I will finalise the paper work hopefully next week.
"I will catch up with the Saints and knock it over. He will be staying a Saint."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/koschitzke-commits-to-saints-20120904-25ca4.html#ixzz25UIUA0sZ​

 

[TheLastEmperor]

If Brodie Grundy is avail we take him no questions asked. He's a big bloke who is versatile, can play forward and is nimble for a big guy. He's one of the best ruck juniors from the last decade. Stanley is a preferred forward and having McEvoy and Grundy sharing the ruck and resting forward would be an awsome combination for the next decade. Yes please. Mute point anyway, he's that highly rated that he may even go at number 1 depending on GWS's needs. GC would love him and no way he goes past pick 2 IMO.

Realistically we pick the best avail player, period. If Stringer is still avail, get him cos he fills a number of holes with his versatility. I'm not sold on Mason, seems too one-dimensional and doesn't get a lot of ball. I could see him slipping down the order TBH. There are a few decent KPD's as well to consider. But bottom line we pick the best avail whether he's a mid / utility / KPP. It's when teams start picking for needs that they stuff up.

 

[Strahany]

ST KILDA veteran Justin Koschitzke will remain at St Kilda for at least another season.
Koschitzke, 30 this month, is an unrestricted free agent and could have joined the club of his choice.
But his manager James Pitcher, of Strategic Management Solutions, told The Age the ruckman-forward would remain with the Saints.
"He will remain at St Kilda for at least another year," Pitcher said.
Advertisement
"I will finalise the paper work hopefully next week.
"I will catch up with the Saints and knock it over. He will be staying a Saint."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/koschitzke-commits-to-saints-20120904-25ca4.html#ixzz25UIUA0sZ

I'm trying to picture your reaction to this news whilst posting it.

I'm thinking this is pretty accurate.

 

[RedmanWasHere]

Possible delistings.

Senior list.

Marco (Dean Polo.)
Raph Clarke.
Peakey.
Blake?
Farren.
Lou?

Rookie list.

Archer.
Andreoli.
Fergie.
Either Shenton, Staley or Minchington.

 

[Defacto]

rookie list:
i am against delisting andreoli. 2nd year rookie, showed something before he suffered an LTI. shenton i think deserves one more year, given he's a 1st year rookie and we move him interstate and he showed something at the back end of the year.

archer definite delist. promote dunell, curren and look at promoting ferguson. that gives 3-4 free spots on the rookie list. i know the size is reduced but i cant remember by how much.

senior list:
peake
blake (retired)
polo
crocker

are the only ones i am certain on. problem is we want to draft a ready made KPD, Ruck. Also think scott is keen on getting cockie. so we need minimum 3 spots + 2/3 for rookie relevations + 2-3 new kids. that means we need 7-9 delistings from the senior list. dont know who the extra 3-5 will be.

 

[stkildathunda]

I'm trying to picture your reaction to this news whilst posting it.

I'm thinking this is pretty accurate.

Its as if you were looking in my window!!!

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

ST KILDA veteran Justin Koschitzke will remain at St Kilda for at least another season.
Koschitzke, 30 this month, is an unrestricted free agent and could have joined the club of his choice.
But his manager James Pitcher, of Strategic Management Solutions, told The Age the ruckman-forward would remain with the Saints.
"He will remain at St Kilda for at least another year," Pitcher said.
Advertisement
"I will finalise the paper work hopefully next week.
"I will catch up with the Saints and knock it over. He will be staying a Saint."

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/koschitzke-commits-to-saints-20120904-25ca4.html#ixzz25UIUA0sZ

No comment.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

No comment.

Great trading ploy. He is wanted. He is required.

And ok, we will entertain offers for this valuable, desired and important player.

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

Great trading ploy. He is wanted. He is required.

And ok, we will entertain offers for this valuable, desired and important player.

You think? As disapointed as I was hearing Watters this morning using the words "required player and Kosi" in the same sentence. Why was I not surprised.

 

[Zagg]

You think? As disapointed as I was hearing Watters this morning using the words "required player and Kosi" in the same sentence. Why was I not surprised.

He has a contract for next year, Watters can't say he's not wanted, particularly about a loyal clubman like Kosi who's unlikely to want to play for another AFL team (not that anyone will offer him anywhere near what we're reportedly paying him).

Pretty damning that he's praising Kosi for the work he's doing internally rather than on the oval.

 

[stkildathunda]

He has a contract for next year, Watters can't say he's not wanted, particularly about a loyal clubman like Kosi who's unlikely to want to play for another AFL team (not that anyone will offer him anywhere near what we're reportedly paying him).

Pretty damning that he's praising Kosi for the work he's doing internally rather than on the oval.

I was thinking that, why are we giving him playing contract and not a coaching one? Why waste cap space on him.

 

[Strahany]

Work done by a player off the field can be just as valuable, if not more valuable than the work they do on the field.

Just take one look at Melbourne. They've had every opportunity to really develop a new core group of players with their young talent, but they had no one to help the transition from being the new kids, to being the players that the team relies on. It's one of the key reasons why they're a rabble.

 

[Strahany]

I was thinking that, why are we giving him playing contract and not a coaching one? Why waste cap space on him.

Depth?

Unless Koschitzke was legitimately burnt out due to that extended period of playing ruckman.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

You think? As disapointed as I was hearing Watters this morning using the words "required player and Kosi" in the same sentence. Why was I not surprised.

Unfortunately, I was being sarcastic. I had hoped that Kosi would announce his retirement and be offered and accept a coaching position at St Kilda.

 

[sammm]

Possible delistings.

Senior list.

Marco (Dean Polo.)
Raph Clarke.
Peakey.
Blake?
Farren.
Lou?

Rookie list.

Archer.
Andreoli.
Fergie.
Either Shenton, Staley or Minchington.

who is lou?

why get rid of farren, good depth player! need these.
and why get rid of fergerson or, minchington?

 

[sammm]

He has a contract for next year, Watters can't say he's not wanted, particularly about a loyal clubman like Kosi who's unlikely to want to play for another AFL team (not that anyone will offer him anywhere near what we're reportedly paying him).

Pretty damning that he's praising Kosi for the work he's doing internally rather than on the oval.

never thought of it like that, but you're right, pretty damning! At least he did not play him the last game.

 

[stkildathunda]

who is lou?

why get rid of farren, good depth player! need these.
and why get rid of fergerson or, minchington?

cos the bloke was Bombers fan and clearly has no idea about our list!!

 

[FlyingSledghamer]

I was thinking that, why are we giving him playing contract and not a coaching one? Why waste cap space on him.

Good Point. he was talking about him more as in the work he does off field with Rys. I just don't see the logic in keeping him on for those reasons, I mean he's not exactly going to get better from here and we could save 250k on a mature forward to have fight with Wilkes for that last big forward spot in the team.