Preview Changes vs Collingwood - Round 20, 2021

[Miguel Sanchez]

Waterman may be accused of many things -

When it comes to ziad that is an understatement.

Doesn’t kick enough goals. Doesn’t kick the right goals. Somehow gets outperformed by opponents who kick 25 per cent as many goals. Somehow gets outperformed by teammates who weren’t even playing.

Doesn’t work hard enough, doesn’t have a big enough tank, but also too many of his possessions are junk stats in the back half.

Only gets on the end of teammates’ good work, can’t create for others - don’t believe those pesky score involvement stats, or your own eyes.

Probably others I’ve missed.

 

[Grahame]

When it comes to ziad that is an understatement.

Doesn’t kick enough goals. Doesn’t kick the right goals. Somehow gets outperformed by opponents who kick 25 per cent as many goals. Somehow gets outperformed by teammates who weren’t even playing.

Doesn’t work hard enough, doesn’t have a big enough tank, but also too many of his possessions are junk stats in the back half.

Only gets on the end of teammates’ good work, can’t create for others - don’t believe those pesky score involvement stats, or your own eyes.

Probably others I’ve missed.

I also believe he's a bugger for parking in other players car spots. He also is famous for the unAustralian act of not being able to eat a pie with sauce without making a mess. And ... there is also increasing evidence he may be the one behind climate change.

But ... probably others I've missed.

 

[Bender_]

I used to run at McGilvray on Christmas morning, boxing day etc. There wit a few true mates, plus always plus Cuz doing 400M repeats.
Players are responsible.

I also interview thousands of professional sports people every day - religious and public holidays included.

 

[KERRPOW]

any chance of vardy being an in, 31 HO & 3 goals.

 

[Chad in Vegas]

its about his biggest failing, I read tha fan bou stuff about his tank, but he is unpacked, struggles when he has to 'gut run' and is basically a plodder

Blame who you like.

I used to run at McGilvray on Christmas morning, boxing day etc. There wit a few true mates, plus always plus Cuz doing 400M repeats.
Players are responsible.

Of all the ridiculous statements you've made over the last couple of weeks, the above is the least believable.

 

[Grahame]

All pretty fine for those demanding Brander is up to scratch and should be in the side. It's just soooo easy to say 'play Brander'. However, rarely do I see this sentiment backed up by specifics on where he should play and who he should replace. So, play where? in place of who? (And then - not unrelated - is the whole discussion about us being too tall.)

On what's he has shown so far I can't see him as a mid. Not clean enough nor agile enough nor strong enough and not a standout skill wise. Besides, how many successful 195cm midfielders are there?

And to mention him in the same breath as The Bont ... oh dear ... is plainly ridiculous. Bont is near #1 in the AFL, and what Brander is probably in the best ... 200? Get real!

If he is a backman, is he ahead of Gov, TB, HE, Rotham ... ? Please specify.

If as most often suggested he's a forward, then is he ahead of JK? JD? OA? and even JW? or the second 'resting' ruck? If so, who is he better than and how are we then going to structure up?

As mentioned before, I think we've got a list management issue where we just have too many tall forwards - JK, JD, OA, JW and Brander. Prior to the worthy addition of OA we used to only run with two tall forwards plus the occasional resting ruck. However, even with 'just' three it makes it harder to have a proper second ruck which then affects the progress of our NN replacement (Williams). I would think from a longer term perspective there is more upside in getting games into Williams than Brander.

It then also seems this surplus of goodish to excellent tall forwards has negatively affected MC decisions. (E.g think ... 'too tall' blah blah.) Everything points to Brander being surplus and thus trade bait (unless the non-WA Brander really is happy to have his stop-start WCE career just keep spluttering along).

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

All pretty fine for those demanding Brander is up to scratch and should be in the side. It's just soooo easy to say 'play Brander'. However, rarely do I see this sentiment backed up by specifics on where he should play and who he should replace. So, play where? in place of who? (And then - not unrelated - is the whole discussion about us being too tall.)

Play him on the wing, in the defensive wing role he played in the first half of this year and for most of his AFL appearances in the past couple of years.

Not sure who did that role on the weekend. Possibly Hutch - I’ve seen mention that he was on a wing. Or possibly West who I noticed lining up on a wing himself at times. Or Brander himself may have been playing it after he was subbed on. In any event, I’d bring him into the 22 in place of Hutchings, and have West play more on the inside which is clearly his forte.

I don’t think playing a 6’5” Brander on a wing plays any part in the weekly criticisms that we are too tall. The areas where being too tall are a problem are
- the forward line, because if the talls don’t mark the ball it’s too easy for smaller faster defenders to run the ball out,
- the backline, because it’s difficult for the talls to compete when the ball hits the deck, and also they’re liable to get pinned in by smaller faster forwards.

At most, playing Brander as a defensive winger might be an issue in the backline. But he’s pretty mobile for his size, as are most of the other talls, and he’s good below his knees.

 

[ziad]

Of all the ridiculous statements you've made over the last couple of weeks, the above is the least believable.

Didnt see you there. Your comment is illogical. I guess living in dream land must be wonderful for you. Just pretend what you want to be true.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Didnt see you there. Your comment is illogical. I guess living in dream land must be wonderful for you. Just pretend what you want to be true.

You also didn’t see this question directed at you

Question for you- did you actually watch the game? If so please tell me the passage of play where Oscar looked fit and able to compete. Not being smart but your view on Oscar and his impact on a contest appears odd.

Or this one

Why do we absolutely desperately need Allen to play against Collingwood - lower than Carlton on the ladder, have bugger all key backs beside Moore who’s injured - and why do we absolutely desperately need to play him regardless of the fact he appears to be falling apart?

Or any of my questions asking why you thought Hutchings was best on ground in a game he wasn’t playing in.

So easy to just be able to ignore stuff that doesn’t suit you. You can never lose an argument that way.

 

[THE A5]

When it comes to ziad that is an understatement.

Doesn’t kick enough goals. Doesn’t kick the right goals. Somehow gets outperformed by opponents who kick 25 per cent as many goals. Somehow gets outperformed by teammates who weren’t even playing.

Doesn’t work hard enough, doesn’t have a big enough tank, but also too many of his possessions are junk stats in the back half.

Only gets on the end of teammates’ good work, can’t create for others - don’t believe those pesky score involvement stats, or your own eyes.

Probably others I’ve missed.

Looks like HT’s misso wasn’t the only one Jakey was messing around with

 

[WCE_phil]

In regards to Brander even looking at a best 22. Ryan plays as a marking forward. So he's what the 5th best marking forward on the list, at best?

In regards to Defence as a tall defender he's behind Barrass, Mcgovern, Edwards, Rotham and even being significantly taller is he really better playing against a tall than Shep or Hurn? so he's either the 5th best tall defender or 7th best marking defender.

He's not a ruckmans arseh*le, is too short, not aggressive enough and as a ruck would be Behind Nicnac, Vardy, Williams, Darling, Mcgovern and probably Edwards. So 7th best ruck, actually it would be interesting if Jamieson was played as a ruck I'd have him ahead of Brander.

As a midfielder at AFL level he doesn't attack the ball or the man, he is a decent mark (poor for his size), isn't great below his knees (compared to mids), doesn't get clearances and isn't a damaging kick. His long kicks are to a place rather than positioned to a man on the run and his short kicks are loopy and dangerous. His best trait is his hands which again as an AFL mid would be middling at best.

If he isn't traded i'd delist him. Other than his endurance I see no elite AFL level traits. Does not deserve another game at this rate. Even at WAFL level he's playing as a first receiver when playing midfield.

Every single other player on the list has shown they have at least 1 AFL level elite trait whether thats at wafl or AFL level. (except for will collins and we don't have enough of a read on him but i'd be delisting him too end of season)

 

[bzparkes]

Ziad channelling a certain famished feline?

 

[EagleEgo]

Possible change in game time in case it has not yet reported in the forum:

"West Coast’s fixture against Collingwood looks set to be moved forward a day | The West Australian" https://thewest.com.au/sport/afl/we...a-day-as-eagles-face-quarantine-c-3508320.amp

 

[squashface]

Howe playing his first game this week since doing his hammy in the first Coll v WC game this year.

 

[BOND 007]

its about his biggest failing, I read tha fan bou stuff about his tank, but he is unpacked, struggles when he has to 'gut run' and is basically a plodder

Blame who you like.

I used to run at McGilvray on Christmas morning, boxing day etc. There wit a few true mates, plus always plus Cuz doing 400M repeats.
Players are responsible.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree then

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

In regards to Brander even looking at a best 22. Ryan plays as a marking forward. So he's what the 5th best marking forward on the list, at best?

In regards to Defence as a tall defender he's behind Barrass, Mcgovern, Edwards, Rotham and even being significantly taller is he really better playing against a tall than Shep or Hurn? so he's either the 5th best tall defender or 7th best marking defender.

He's not a ruckmans a-hole, is too short, not aggressive enough and as a ruck would be Behind Nicnac, Vardy, Williams, Darling, Mcgovern and probably Edwards. So 7th best ruck, actually it would be interesting if Jamieson was played as a ruck I'd have him ahead of Brander.

As a midfielder at AFL level he doesn't attack the ball or the man, he is a decent mark (poor for his size), isn't great below his knees (compared to mids), doesn't get clearances and isn't a damaging kick. His long kicks are to a place rather than positioned to a man on the run and his short kicks are loopy and dangerous. His best trait is his hands which again as an AFL mid would be middling at best.

If he isn't traded i'd delist him. Other than his endurance I see no elite AFL level traits. Does not deserve another game at this rate. Even at WAFL level he's playing as a first receiver when playing midfield.

Every single other player on the list has shown they have at least 1 AFL level elite trait whether thats at wafl or AFL level. (except for will collins and we don't have enough of a read on him but i'd be delisting him too end of season)

Not arguing with you, but what happened to the AA U18 Full Forward and the guy considered by the club to be better than Oscar Allen, Tim Kelly and Liam Ryan?

Incidently, I looked up old mate Andrew McDougall, and how West Coast is this ****ing sentence:

At the end of the 2006 season West Coast offered McDougall a one-year contract, but due to lack of opportunities at the club he opted to be traded to the Western Bulldogs who had shown an interest in McDougall over the past few years.

FML

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Not arguing with you, but what happened to the AA U18 Full Forward and the guy considered by the club to be better than Oscar Allen, Tim Kelly and Liam Ryan?

Two of those three are All Australians and the third is basically a lock for a future All Australian.

Falling behind them doesn’t mean he’s got no future at AFL level.

 

[MrWoollie]

Not sure on changes just yet but anyone on here who's advocated a "rested" or "managed" can give their head a wobble.

1. We're no position to afford that luxury.
2. We're a month from finals. No resting, quite the opposite in fact, pedal to the metal until the Grand Final.
3. We've suffered recently by making too many changes from week to week. Simmo has admitted as much.
4. Everyone gets a week off between Rd 23 and the finals, barring any more COVID drama.

It's largely how you define 'rested' and 'managed', vs. 'injured'.

At the moment Allen is offering little, and hasn't for over a month now. He's got more bandages than an Egyptian Mummy and is struggling to hold marks, tackle and isn't even running as well as he was. He isn't impacting the contest, isn't score assisting at his normal rate and isn't kicking goals. He hasn't suddenly turned into a spud, there's more going on.
Are we better with a 70% Allen for 4 games then a week off, or a week off, then an 80-90% Allen for 3 games then the week off?

In his current state, if it was a final, he plays. For a home and away game where an opportunity exists to refresh and repair, maybe a different choice.

 

[WCErevival]

Not arguing with you, but what happened to the AA U18 Full Forward and the guy considered by the club to be better than Oscar Allen, Tim Kelly and Liam Ryan?

Incidently, I looked up old mate Andrew McDougall, and how West Coast is this ******* sentence:



FML

McDougall wasnt worth keeping though and didn't do anything of note at the Bulldogs.

I think Brander will eventually become our CHF or roaming HFF. He's no gorilla but he can run and has good mobility. I'm not sure we've seen enough of his marking ability to really comment on it one way or another.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

He's not at that level (Bont). Arguably no-one else is this year anyway...

He certainly struggled as the sub, so should either be in the initial 22 or Beagles.

It was a shame to see him lacking confidence again after such a good start to the year - that said, he was one of the few who seemed to go backwards with the ball as an initial thought but the gameplan (thankfully) seems to be moving away from that (meaning he felt lost when there was little support - as players were expecting him to move forward rather than loop/spin to the back).

Brander got 11 touches from 3/4 of a game which is pretty consistent with his 16 possession average this year .
He had the same amount of touches as west (11) and more than XON (7) and hutch (9) who all played a full game .

I would keep him in over Xon and hutch

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

He had the same amount of touches as west (11) and more than XON (7) and hutch (9) who all played a full game .

I would keep him in over Xon and hutch

In O’Neill’s defence, he appeared to be playing in the forward line and had a specific role of staying fairly deep and blocking for the bigs. The sort of role that Jamaine played earlier in the season.

It’s not a role he seems suited to, but we’re short on forwards. I don’t think he’ll be judged on how many possessions he got.

 

[garlic munchers]

I don’t think playing a 6’5” Brander on a wing plays any part in the weekly criticisms that we are too tall. The areas where being too tall are a problem are
- the forward line, because if the talls don’t mark the ball it’s too easy for smaller faster defenders to run the ball out,
- the backline, because it’s difficult for the talls to compete when the ball hits the deck, and also they’re liable to get pinned in by smaller faster forwards.

Anyone that can take the ball and run around in tight, ever decreasing circles as Brandner does whilst simultaneously doing a epiletic version of the Matea goose step, is clearly cut out for a role on the wing.

 

[Jupes]

for the record i wasn't saying brander is going to be, or is in the same stratosphere as bont lmao. he's had patches in the WAFL where he's been able to exert himself on a game reminiscent of bont. patches. in the WAFL.

 

[eaglespremiers]

any chance of vardy being an in, 31 HO & 3 goals.

In recent years his excellent WAFL form never translates to much at AFL level though.

 

[Heathen]

I also believe he's a bugger for parking in other players car spots. He also is famous for the unAustralian act of not being able to eat a pie with sauce without making a mess. And ... there is also increasing evidence he may be the one behind climate change.

But ... probably others I've missed.

I have no trouble believing this to be true.

I witnessed his old man attempt to consume a kebab outside the hip-e club in the early hours of the morning, circa 1998-99. His eyes were almost shut, like coin slots on a vending machine and the child like grin that was plastered across his face suggested that the kebab was bringing him almost premiership levels of joy.
Granted he was as drunk as ten men, but by the time he'd finished his meal, there was more kebeb on his shirt and pants, and on the floor between his feet than in his stomach. I was there with a couple of mates. We were in our late teens and all massive eagles fans and we found this to be absolutely hilarious viewing.
When Muddy was finished, he got up and stumbled off into the night with one P. Wilson and one K Langdon. Ahhh the memories.