Review Dees v the Orcs - the Good, the Bad & the Fugly

[mrmonkey]

...why can't the game plan work for a whole game?

Because the opposition stops you.

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

Because the opposition stops you.

What is it about our game plan that makes it uniquely susceptible to this, and thus makes Goodwin culpable for our struggles?

 

[DemonTim]

What is it about our game plan that makes it uniquely susceptible to this, and thus makes Goodwin culpable for our struggles?

It requires more running than most clubs can handle. Pushing up that high requires players to be able to read the play perfectly prior to it happening and sprinting back their to positions. If not executed perfectly it's incredibly easy to score against. It requires players to have a high level of speed and endurance.
Couple this with the running off the back of the square which is a very attacking style that if we don't win the clearance we are scored on the back of.

 

[schmuttt]

It requires more running than most clubs can handle. Pushing up that high requires players to be able to read the play perfectly prior to it happening and sprinting back their to positions. If not executed perfectly it's incredibly easy to score against. It requires players to have a high level of speed and endurance.
Couple this with the running off the back of the square which is a very attacking style that if we don't win the clearance we are scored on the back of.

The irony is we've played our best footy generally when we've ditched the players off the back of the square. Carlton game was a good example, last quarter went man on man and broke the game open. We did it in the 3rd yesterday too.

 

[mrmonkey]

We were actually were lucky last week tha essendon were also poor with their skills otherwise we could of been facing another comeback. When the game is on our terms we score heavily but we still leak goals. Yesterday we scored 7 goals but Hawthorn still managed 3. Same with freo, when we had the game on our terms freo still manged 3 last quarter goals. The high pressure game is great for scoring but it's unsustainable hence why we seem to only play one good quarter per week. We're not fit enough.

 

[schmuttt]

Coaches votes

MELBOURNE v HAWTHORN
10 Jack Viney (Melb)
6 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
4 Shaun Burgoyne (Haw)
3 Nathan Jones (Melb)
3 Ben McEvoy (Haw)
3 Isaac Smith (Haw)
1 Sam Frost (Melb)

One of those was nowhere near votes IMO

 

[saj_21]

What is it about our game plan that makes it uniquely susceptible to this, and thus makes Goodwin culpable for our struggles?

Our skill isn't good enough for long enough. We leak easy goals because turnovers kill us and the players have to double back and chase the ball/opponents.

It's no coincidence that our best footy is when we control the ball well by footy. The saints game for example. The first or second handball needs to be out to space and advantage not 1m to a team mate under more pressure.

What we've shown against the saints, the cats, 3rd quarter last week is what Goodwin would say is our game style. We are still inexperienced across the board hence the lapses.

 

[ballsdeep]

To me our game plan is all or nothing obviously when u have the most dominant ruckman in comp "playing" you can start with blokes off back of square and run forward of the ball from stoppages but we don't have that luxury now, my biggest concern is the way we are unable to stop sides when they get a run on! Some one said its up to players on the ground it might be to a degree but the buck stops with the coach, if the players don't make a change it has to come from the box, we would be the only side in the comp that can't play tempo footy for 5 mins to stop momentum, I can't understand why hogan or watts or both aren't behind the ball, probaly not all goodwins fault but tell me one time in history when players have taken the fall for shit gameplans that continually dont get the job done or inability to carry them out?

 

[mrmonkey]

The common denominator is pressure. Doesn't matter how good the game plan is. If the opposition team turns up the pressure any game plan can be exposed. The better skilled teams handle it better but even Adelaide were scored heavily against on the weekend once the pressure was on. Hawthorn did it to us and had the skills to counter. So I wouldn't say it's unique to us.

 

[Marc_Remillard]

...why can't the game plan work for a whole game?

Good question, why can't it?

 

[Deemanding]

Coaches votes

MELBOURNE v HAWTHORN
10 Jack Viney (Melb)
6 Jarryd Roughead (Haw)
4 Shaun Burgoyne (Haw)
3 Nathan Jones (Melb)
3 Ben McEvoy (Haw)
3 Isaac Smith (Haw)
1 Sam Frost (Melb)

One of those was nowhere near votes IMO

Clarko giving Nathan 3 votes for assisting them with the win?

 

[Deemanding]

Our skill isn't good enough for long enough. We leak easy goals because turnovers kill us and the players have to double back and chase the ball/opponents.

It's no coincidence that our best footy is when we control the ball well by footy. The saints game for example. The first or second handball needs to be out to space and advantage not 1m to a team mate under more pressure.

What we've shown against the saints, the cats, 3rd quarter last week is what Goodwin would say is our game style. We are still inexperienced across the board hence the lapses.

One thing that I've noticed with both 3rd quarters from the last 2 games is that we've scored goals from running it out of deep defence, i.e. someone like Frost or Hunt backing their pace and then using the handball to find players in space, who can then get the ball quickly into a reasonably empty forward 50.

We're not creating many chances from our midfield comparatively, whether because the ball is coming in from a hack kick (would love to see the number of intercept marks taken by Hawks players in our forward 50 yesterday - there was plenty) or because we're kicking the ball on the head of Hogan or Watts, and it's being too easily spoiled.

 

[Topkent]

I'm not sure there are any combinations like frost and hunt in the AFL. That sheer running power out of defence should mean we score heavily from D50 turnovers. However we don't set up for it. We set up to hopefully kill the contest, get a stoppage and win contested footy again. They should be shredding zones. Not running towards crowded 50s and be forced to use pin point kicking skills they don't have

Makes as much sense as having JKH and Garlett as dump kicks 20m out from goal. Your just wasting the ability they have

 

[Bluelegs]

Goodwin isn't going last long IMO, has so far showed zero ability to change or alter game plan to stop momentum, how sides like fremantle and hawthorn are allowed 6-7 goal runs in qtr is a disgrace, paul roos must sit up in commentary box shaking his head at this all or nothing style of game that is not sustainable over 4 qtrs let alone 22 rounds.

The other thing that really hurts us apart from obviously the ruck is our bottom 6 players each week are not up to afl level, jkh,hannan,bugg,oscar mac,neal bullen,stretch,melksham,wagner who are just on a rotation as to who dominates in the vfl the week before really aren't good enough to take us to next level of having 22 solid contributers every week,

I would like to hope we're not the pissweak club that hits the panic button when a coach has some issues in their games anymore.

Fact is we haven't been smashed in any game. Our biggest loss was by 29 points, a game we would have won if our players were able to execute simple set shots and our best player didn't go down.

One of our losses came off losing two players before half time and our other losses were under a goal. In every game we've lost we've fought our way back into games. To say that the issues Goodwin is currently having are irredeemable is beyond a joke. Coaches improve with experience just like players do.

 

[TheCount]

I would like to hope we're not the pissweak club that hits the panic button when a coach has some issues in their games anymore.

Fact is we haven't been smashed in any game. Our biggest loss was by 29 points, a game we would have won if our players were able to execute simple set shots and our best player didn't go down.

One of our losses came off losing two players before half time and our other losses were under a goal. In every game we've lost we've fought our way back into games. To say that the issues Goodwin is currently having are irredeemable is beyond a joke. Coaches improve with experience just like players do.

Seriously, talking about sacking the coach already? unreal.

You're spot on, even with the injuries (and suspensions) we get a ball or two bounce our way, and we're 5-2, regardless of us deserving to be. We're 3-4 and have a percentage of 106.7%, show's we're all right.

 

[Topkent]

Seriously, talking about sacking the coach already? unreal.

You're spot on, even with the injuries (and suspensions) we get a ball or two bounce our way, and we're 5-2, regardless of us deserving to be. We're 3-4 and have a percentage of 106.7%, show's we're all right.

Plus this team could well come out and beat Adelaide. I'd feel a lot better if we had beaten freo and were 4-3

 

[Gysberts2Bate]

I'm not sure there are any combinations like frost and hunt in the AFL. That sheer running power out of defence should mean we score heavily from D50 turnovers. However we don't set up for it. We set up to hopefully kill the contest, get a stoppage and win contested footy again. They should be shredding zones. Not running towards crowded 50s and be forced to use pin point kicking skills they don't have

Makes as much sense as having JKH and Garlett as dump kicks 20m out from goal. Your just wasting the ability they have

OMac and TMac have great rebounding ability as well, they just can't defend for shit and they need to be the ones doing it. Like you said we need to recruit more defenders who will either outmuscle their man and take the mark or kill the contest

 

[Yakker]

T Mac stays
O Mac should be Casey bound for a bit

 

[TheCount]

Plus this team could well come out and beat Adelaide. I'd feel a lot better if we had beaten freo and were 4-3

It would be such a Melbourne thing to do wouldn't it.

 

[fushy]

Seriously, talking about sacking the coach already? unreal.

I think demonland is leaking again, MCFSS is everywhere the last few days.

 

[ballsdeep]

Seriously, talking about sacking the coach already? unreal.

You're spot on, even with the injuries (and suspensions) we get a ball or two bounce our way, and we're 5-2, regardless of us deserving to be. We're 3-4 and have a percentage of 106.7%, show's we're all right.

First of all im not calling for him to be sacked im saying if he doesnt fix things very quickly he will not last long, look at the way carlton are coached they have the worst list in afl but they play to a game plan that can stand up regardless of who is playing they are equal points with us and we want to be playing finals and secondly way to much we are going alright on here this why our club culture is rooted we should be 7-0 but most of our supporters are ok with having an honourable loss by sounds of it, this club needs to stop accepting mediocrity and We seem to be happy on here being 3-4 when we have led in every last qtr this year, I for one am filthy!

 

[Down the throat]

First of all im not calling for him to be sacked im saying if he doesnt fix things very quickly he will not last long, look at the way carlton are coached they have the worst list in afl but they play to a game plan that can stand up regardless of who is playing they are equal points with us and we want to be playing finals and secondly way to much we are going alright on here this why our club culture is rooted we should be 7-0 but most of our supporters are ok with having an honourable loss by sounds of it, this club needs to stop accepting mediocrity and We seem to be happy on here being 3-4 when we have led in every last qtr this year, I for one am filthy!

Did you see Carlton play against Port Adelaide?

 

[TheCount]

First of all im not calling for him to be sacked im saying if he doesnt fix things very quickly he will not last long, look at the way carlton are coached they have the worst list in afl but they play to a game plan that can stand up regardless of who is playing they are equal points with us and we want to be playing finals and secondly way to much we are going alright on here this why our club culture is rooted we should be 7-0 but most of our supporters are ok with having an honourable loss by sounds of it, this club needs to stop accepting mediocrity and We seem to be happy on here being 3-4 when we have led in every last qtr this year, I for one am filthy!

Firstly ...
This:

Did you see Carlton play against Port Adelaide?

Secondly, I'm far from happy about being 3-4, when as you quite rightly say, we should be 7-0. It is what it is tho, if we'd been smashed by 10 goals each time and never looked in the contest, by all means, round up the lynch mob, but we've been over run as a result of key injuries twice, and lost the other 2 by less than a goal, which while infinitely more frustrating, is also a lot more positive when looking at it subjectively. I've said it a few times, but as much as we're all sick of youth and inexperience being an excuse, it doesn't make it any less true. I can see us continuing on this middling sort of season and just missing out on the 8, as much as I can see things clicking and seeing a lot more of the 3rd qrts, less of the 1st qrts, and our young list being wiser for the experiences next time we're in a tight one.

 

[ballsdeep]

Did you see Carlton play against Port Adelaide?

Yep and did u see the way we played against carlton, boltons game plan been smacked once in 7 games by a good team playing at home against 19 year old kids in front 50,000,

 

[ballsdeep]

Firstly ...
This:

Secondly, I'm far from happy about being 3-4, when as you quite rightly say, we should be 7-0. It is what it is tho, if we'd been smashed by 10 goals each time and never looked in the contest, by all means, round up the lynch mob, but we've been over run as a result of key injuries twice, and lost the other 2 by less than a goal, which while infinitely more frustrating, is also a lot more positive when looking at it subjectively. I've said it a few times, but as much as we're all sick of youth and inexperience being an excuse, it doesn't make it any less true. I can see us continuing on this middling sort of season and just missing out on the 8, as much as I can see things clicking and seeing a lot more of the 3rd qrts, less of the 1st qrts, and our young list being wiser for the experiences next time we're in a tight one.

What would our record be if roos was coaching?