Review Good vs West Coast, R13 2023

[Rotayjay]

It’s not just about Tex, he re-did the Coleman race with all goals against the eagles removed. I kind of understand what he’s saying, but how deep do you go with this? As the other panellist said, Brownlow, AAs, where does it stop. Do we need to take into account variances in form lines during the season? The Coleman is won by the player that kicks the most goals, end of story.

Kane Cornes is just a troll flog looking for a reaction.

 

[Hodgy]

Currently struggling in the VFL doesn't fill me with confidence that he's a worthy target post ACL

No way he'd be considered for AFL selection the way he's playing.

- Elijah Hollands

vfl.aflmstats.com

How things are going for him is exactly why I would be after him. Showed as a junior what he can do (as well as his early games in the AFL). There are no A grade mids available to us in the next few years unless we draft them. Hollands is getable, has an affinity with Adelaide and size and skill set that we need. Just have to back our system to restore his confidence and we could have a genuine talent.

 

[Danger in Texas]

How things are going for him is exactly why I would be after him. Showed as a junior what he can do (as well as his early games in the AFL). There are no A grade mids available to us in the next few years unless we draft them. Hollands is getable, has an affinity with Adelaide and size and skill set that we need. Just have to back our system to restore his confidence and we could have a genuine talent.

I like Hollands as a target after his contract is up next year, but by no means should we expect him to be our saviour, and the end to all our midfield woes

More a low risk, high reward type - similar to Hately

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

Kane Cornes is just a troll flog looking for a reaction.

Just don't know why people bother taking notice of him.

 

[Danger in Texas]

Berry and Schoenberg are definitely a concern. Cook started well behind with his shoulder and not sure will make it. But these aren’t high picks, these are a 1 in 50 chance

Rachele pedlar are the obvious ones - with Soligo being our smoky hopefully


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Pedlar and Soligo seem like definite future midfield pieces, to me. Pedlar as hopefully a De Goey type. Rachele could end up anywhere from Robbie Gray (mid that goes forward) to Papley (forward with occasional time in mid)

One more young midfield prospect + a trade-in and I reckon we're set

 

[Bearded Clam]

Your post was about Day and Pickett wasn't it?

My post was about the mcasey pick being a massive fxxk up..

mutineer said serong, which I agreed with, and then went further and added pickett and Day.

that mcasey pick stuff up is going to cost us big time..

 

[Mutineer]

How things are going for him is exactly why I would be after him. Showed as a junior what he can do (as well as his early games in the AFL). There are no A grade mids available to us in the next few years unless we draft them. Hollands is getable, has an affinity with Adelaide and size and skill set that we need. Just have to back our system to restore his confidence and we could have a genuine talent.

You do realise he's not spending significant time in the midfield even at VFL level?

 

[Geoffa32]

Kane Cornes is just a troll flog looking for a reaction.

Klickbait Kornes....

On SM-A325F using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[1970crow]

And the Eagles won centre clearance by 5 last week even though Collingwood beat them by 10 goals. They also won centre clearance when Carlton beat them by 100 points

Our big issue is that our developing midfielders are all second year players. We don’t have any in the 3-5 year bracket and that leaves them to be managed through the year. I would hope we see a much greater transition next year after another pre season


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You hoped that this year and you’ll excuse it again this time next year.

 

[CrowBloke]

One more young midfield prospect + a trade-in and I reckon we're set

Ruck/ taps to advantage. I have doubts about RoB.

 

[NSolis]

You hoped that this year and you’ll excuse it again this time next year.

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

 

[rabidcrow]

You hoped that this year and you’ll excuse it again this time next year.

No I didn’t. We are performing much better than I had hoped for this year overall. And I have preached patience on here all through the year.
Schoenberg and Berry are concerning I. Terms of regression. Harry is playing pretty well in the Sanfl. The other 3 are developing nicely in the senior team but I accept managed minutes as I think it is directed more from High performance than it is from coaches - Pedlar centre square is growing as the year goes on - Rachele has had less centre time but I put that down to his endurance


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[BucketsNj]

And yet he adds more to the discussion than you ever have.

You’re so close.

 

[Soggy2112]

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

Great post.

Rachele, Soligo and Pedlar are developing nicely, and their forward/midfield, wing/midfield split is clearly being managed very closely.

People might want the immediate sugar hit of seeing them play full time mid right now, but that will come in time, just be patient.

 

[Pilchard_Adams]

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

Great post.

So basically stfu you sook types, be patient. Stop flooding threads with coach and team hate. It will come.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Thought that was one of RT best games for the year

He's amazing at ground level for a big guy

Koutoufides-like around stoppages. I wonder if we'd ever...?

 

[davos44]

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

Good stuff, 2 or 3 more preseasons and the expectation is that they will compete continually. Especially Pedlar, he has that real burst power and push off.

 

[GrommoT]

He's amazing at ground level for a big guy

Koutoufides-like around stoppages. I wonder if we'd ever...?

What? Make tv ads?

Oops... too late

 

[Southerntakeover]

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

This involves removing entire players from the analysis (Berry, down this year to approximately zero), and ignoring the relative circumstances of the clubs.

One was contending for a Premiership with Brownlow medal calibre players taking CBAs. One is doubling down on Rory Sloane and Ben Keays.

What's Horne-Francis's current CBA attendance rate?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Great post.

So basically stfu you sook types, be patient. Stop flooding threads with coach and team hate. It will come.

Militantly unthinking

 

[Danger in Texas]

This involves removing entire players from the analysis (Berry, down this year to approximately zero), and ignoring the relative circumstances of the clubs.

One was contending for a Premiership with Brownlow medal calibre players taking CBAs. One is doubling down on Rory Sloane and Ben Keays.

What's Horne-Francis's current CBA attendance rate?

This seems like cherry-picking analysis to me. Port were relying on SPP and an aging Gray in their premiership contending years more than we’ve relied on Sloane and Keays this year. We’ve also got our own Brownlow contender in Dawson to take away minutes more than the past two seasons

It’s no secret Port’s midfield is looking like the best in the league for now and in the future, but that doesn’t necessarily minimise our own prospects. That said, we still need to get one or two more good ones to get over the hump

 

[NSolis]

This involves removing entire players from the analysis (Berry, down this year to approximately zero), and ignoring the relative circumstances of the clubs.

One was contending for a Premiership with Brownlow medal calibre players taking CBAs. One is doubling down on Rory Sloane and Ben Keays.

What's Horne-Francis's current CBA attendance rate?

JHF is on 59%. I'm not suggesting gradually introducing young players to CBAs is the only way to do it. Last year we gave 66% CBAs to Berry for example, which is even more CBAs than JHF is getting. I think Berry's a different sort of player and was much more ready to be an inside mid 2nd year, and also wouldn't have been much use in other roles, while I'd argue Rozee and Butters have more in common with our young midfield prospects. You might disagree I guess and think we should be throwing Rachele and Pedlar in there full time immediately, but my broader point is actually that being gradually introduced to midfield loads hasn't hurt Butters and Rozee in their development. They are doing very well as 23 year old mids. I think the plan for someone like Rachele is similar.

 

[Southerntakeover]

JHF is on 59%. I'm not suggesting gradually introducing young players to CBAs is the only way to do it. Last year we gave 66% CBAs to Berry for example, which is even more CBAs than JHF is getting. I think Berry's a different sort of player and was much more ready to be an inside mid 2nd year, and also wouldn't have been much use in other roles, while I'd argue Rozee and Butters have more in common with our young midfield prospects. You might disagree I guess and think we should be throwing Rachele and Pedlar in there full time immediately, but my broader point is actually that being gradually introduced to midfield loads hasn't hurt Butters and Rozee in their development. They are doing very well as 23 year old mids. I think the plan for someone like Rachele is similar.

Port gradually introduced players around a star midfield that was performing at AFL level. They were getting eased into the mix with the likes of Boak and Wines in his brownlow year, but chalking up games none the less.

We're in an entirely different position, squeezing young players out of the side entirely to benefit the last gasp breaths of Rory Sloane's career. These are not the same thing.

If we had been in the position Port was, it's questionable that we'd have even played these guys over more experienced options in contending years, given that's never how we approached development in the past. A good 5-8 year apprenticeship in the SANFL. That'll learn em.

 

[NSolis]

I think that's accentuating the negative and completely ignoring counterpoints. If we were all about squeezing young players out of the side to benefit senior incumbents, why did we play Berry so much last year? Why is Dawson in the middle instead of picking Crouch? He's playing SANFL and racking up touches each week after all, they could easily have Dawson on the wing instead of Sholl/Jones and play Crouch as the main CBA guy like the first half of last year.

I think what's going on is the club is trying to balance short-term success against player development. They see Rachele and Pedlar as future midfield stars and they are trying to give them some midfield time while also managing their workload and ensuring we have bigger, more experienced bodies in there as well so we aren't getting belted and can win games. Luckily Rachele and Pedlar are also useful in the forward line, so they can strike a good balance there, which is similar to Port Adelaide in 2021. They had Willem Drew

28

Willem Drew

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

86kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.9

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

8.7

5star

M

2.2

2star

T

5.6

5star

CL

2.3

4star

No current season stats available

D

18.0

5star

K

9.2

4star

HB

8.8

5star

M

3.0

3star

T

4.2

5star

CL

2.8

5star

taking 60% of CBAs in that year and he's not some Brownlow winning superstar, he's just a servicable midfielder who was a bit more ready than Butters and Rozee at that time. His midfield minutes have dropped away as the more impressive prospects matured.

 

[rabidcrow]

Our CBAs are being shared around more than last year though. Soligo, Rachele and Pedlar have been introduced to the rotations - the actual issue is that Berry and Schoenberg haven't really come on yet.

Our last game in 2022 before the bye was also home against West Coast. Our CBAs were shared entirely among Crouch, Laird, Keays and Berry, aside from Hately who attended one centre bounce. Soligo and Rachele both played that game and attended zero CBAs. Berry had by far the lowest number of the main four.

This time around we've got Dawson in there instead of Crouch as a main rotation guy and Sloane instead of Berry as the 4th mid. But in addition there's a significant number of CBAs also for Soligo and Pedlar and a few for Rachele. Assuming those three players are still in the team next year I'd expect that upwards trend to continue as they move into their 3rd/4th years.

I think a good trajectory to watch is actually Port Adelaide's with Butters and Rozee, noting that Rachele, Pedlar and Soligo are 2-3 years younger.

Their CBA attendances:
2020: Rozee 19%, Butters 3%
2021: Rozee 12%, Butters 21%
2022: Rozee 50%, Butters 38%
2023: Rozee 70%, Butters 54% - they are the main mids now along with Wines and JHF.

The gradual buildup hasn't hurt their impact, to say the least.

For us:
2022: Soligo 15%, Rachele 6%
2023: Soligo 25%, Rachele 29%, Pedlar 11%

I hope to see those numbers go up again next year, assuming they are still in the side.

Great post. It is nice to see people actually delve into what’s happening to make a point.


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