Autopsy Roast & Toast v Hawthorn (Dusty's 300th) and Changes for Carlton

[Karp3_dm]

Yes, this. Our slow and predictable exit from our defensive 50 must account for at least 25% of our on-field problems (if not more).

It’s insane, it can’t be the game plan
It never works

 

[DickieKnee]

Agreed. Players are not presenting to the ball carrier as often as they should. Just makes marking the ball inside 50 even harder than it already is.

If we ran to pockets or space more often, then our midfielders wouldn’t take so long to decide who to kick to. Needs to be rectified.

Gotta wonder what our forward coach does?

 

[LTT]

I was so pissed off yesterday, genuinely felt sick.

Our players are undersized and poor in the air. We can't persist with a bunch of <180cm defensive forwards orbiting Lynch/Kosi. It's a legacy of the Dimma era and it simply doesn't work anymore. Need forwards that can compete in the air and at least make intercept defenders accountable. There's no point having small defensive forwards if their opponents just mark the ball and run off them. They barely touch the ball in 2 hours and provide nothing defensively.
The constant rebounds out of our forward line must've been morale crushing for everyone up the ground.

HRS and Kmac basically the only midfielders capable of providing an aerial contest. Everyone else out marked time and time again by their direct opponents. Was embarrassing.

Bring in Blight, Bauer and Trezise. Some of our strongest marks sitting in the 2's makes no sense.
Blight and Miller could be a formidable fb/chb defensive combo. Just let it evolve.

I'd move Broad and Bauer to half forward so they can push up and provide marking options.

Watson and Ginnivan did ok for the Hawks. The hawks foot skills through the midfield and into the forward line was elite. That and their speed was difference. I do think we need a mobile third tall in the forward line. Bauer is probably the most likely.

 

[peterand]

see you at dustys 400th

Wins a flag every 100 games Dusty

 

[peterand]

What about your man Cumberland?

I have been a watch let’s see what Cumberland can give and was hoping he would get the rest of the season to either have us commit to him or delist
Was at the game yesterday his efforts were poor first three contests he wasn’t even in the contest think the sub had more possessions and damage in less than half a quarter than Cumberland had for 3
I am now thinking he just won’t make it

 

[peterand]

Positives:

• Vlastuin and Taranto were good. Ralphsmith has shown improvement.
• Dusty reaching 300 games, such a fantastic and decorated career.
• 92K turnout! Exceeded my expectations!
• Honestly liked Mansell’s game today. Want to see more games like the last couple of weeks.

With the negatives, there were so many today:

- If this is the best we can do with our named 22 in Dusty’s 300th, then I have given up hope on seeing anything good things this season. If a win-loss record of 2-11 with a percentage in the 60s prior to this game didn’t do it, then this did it. An insipid performance by a group of players that I know could have done better.

- Yet another sub-50 scoreline despite having 19 scoring shots. Our offensive game is by far the worst in the league, and Yze + other coaches responsible have to investigate why. They also need to look at why our players just stop at the cusp of the 50 and wait until our 50 is flooded. There were a couple of times where we stopped at the 50 line and went backwards despite having advantage inside 50. We didn’t get a goal in neither of those passages. Also, the amount of misses in front of goal is concerning. That terrible goal-behind ratio needs to be addressed.

- Short, Dow, and Cumberland were terrible. Sonsie and Bolton weren’t that great either. McIntosh, Baker, and Miller were down. There are just so many players to name that weren’t good today.

I’m very disappointed by the playing group today. They don’t disappoint us this badly very often nowadays, but today was one of those days.

Short been poor IMO most of the year
Been glass half full on Cumberland but now am half empty don’t think he will make it
Dow tries hard but his disposal is woeful especially by foot
Sonsie needs more intensity thought he was soft a number of times yesterday plus he is not a half forward play him in middle or wing
We r desperate for a quick small forward and our clearance work needs a heap of work

 

[LTT]

sounds like 17 sheizen kicks

High slow and on his head. Our midfield kicked the same way to Lynch and he got beaten too. But let’s all blame Cumberland

 

[Cam Payner]

Who is that guy? Looks like he could plug a hole in our midfield

Stuart Dew's tan appears to have faded somewhat since he left Gold Coast....

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

Never been more pissed off with the effort in a milestone game apart from the Tommy Haffey game.

I was furious after that game. Getting a little close to the redline after watching the replay today.

My goodness gracious me what the **** is going on down there.

Can't argue with anything you said.

 

[tigers12]

First we had arc gate now we have interchange gate still crickets from cfl

 

[Growapair]

What are they doing about the 101 interchanges the dawks had obviously it isn’t a mistake otherwise they would have changed it on the app

Hopefully isn't ruled a forfeit ....

we have worked hard to be within 0.3% of pick 1

 

[Bojangles17]

First game I've been to since the Port home game. Self imposed boycott due to CFL umpiring bias was relaxed to see the great man play his 300th, and 17 minutes in, it was simply glorious to be there. The members seats were full, and it was a finals type atmosphere.

To be at the ground and paying tribute to one of the greatest players of all time was a privilege for us. Even though we lost the game, most of the Tiger faithful remained. Many Hawks supporters didn't even stay for their own victory song. Sorry oppo supporters, we are simply the best supporters of any club for good reason.

It was a boring game that should have been played in front of 35,000 if it was not Dusty's 300th. Hawks looked settled from the outset and the skills by foot were a class above. They would have beaten most sides last night. If I could have one Hawks player, it would be Will Day, and he did what he wanted all night. Our gameplan was atrocious and predictable. An Under 12s coach would have seen it well before half time. Use one side of the ground, moving the ball as slowly as possible and then kick long into Sicily's general area for him to pick off. Hawks win the ball and skillfully have it in the hands of Chol etc etc... We just bomb long, where Chol's goals were uncontested marks that led to goals.

The next two weeks should haver at few players tapped on the shoulders. Cumberland lost all 6 contests and was a liability. Sonsie should have sat in the stands as he "ball watched" for most of the game. Macca should be sub for the rest of the year if he plays seniors, and Mansell needs to lift his game. Dow needs a full timer kicking coach and Bolton needs a kick up the ass. If Baker has decided to leave, don't pick him - cut the deal with WCE now (in principle).. Pick 2 is ours and we need to nail this draft.....

Tom Brown will be a jet. He won a contest in the back pocket, and immediately kicked the ball to Campbell (I think). I watched this contest and noted Brown knew where the Tiger player was (all on his own), before he won the contest and without looking, he kicked it lace out. You can teach this, nor train for it. This is the sign of a future superstar. I also like Campbell's game and we need to persist with him. His pickup during one passage was magic.

I'm not going to bag our backline, even though we struggled to move the ball out of the defensive 50 all night. Hawks would not let us use the corridor, so the ball would return back very quickly putting them under pressure. But I think Miller has found his pot down back and when Grimes returns for his farewell game, Miller is permanent. He has earned his spot.

Taranto was our best, Balta was solid, Nank has had a very good stretch of games, Rioli tried running his ass off, but we have no one to kick to at CHF. This is where our biggest problem lies... No targets in the F50. Lynch was literally well held and blocked - frustrating... But at least he finished without injury - so just needs more match fitness.

Usually I bag the umpires, but the normal anti Tigers bias was not too bad, apart from the "deliberate" from 20M our and the Ginnivan / Watson staging for frees that sucked in the umps 3 or 4 times.

Yze can now sit down and review where we are heading with this list as hard decisions need to be made. Get the games into the kids NOW...

For those worried Dusty is leaving or retiring, I think he has a season or two left. He is not going anywhere based on his speech ....

IN - Hopper, Gray, Banks
Out - Cumberland, Sonsie, Mansell

Good summary , I’d bring blight in first , he’s ready for an opportunity, you're dead right we need to open up opportunities for more young players
Smith
Tresize
Bauer
Get some games into these guys at worst see if we have anything to work with , list spots are valuable and with so many pics we can cut more than less to intro new players

 

[Growapair]

List of Obersations

1. Short taking the kick outs has to be the most emotionally sapping experience of the night. A player who has built his reputation based on creative ball use, leather poisoning with a ripper foot, takes the dinky 15 metre sideways pass over to Ben Miller all night. Disgraceful. Know your strengths, he's not at the defence to man up Chol. He's there to get creative and clear the defensive zone. Couldn't do it.

2. Kicking 'down the line', it was hell on earth. Once the Hawks got the ball to ground, their speed, run and carry and creativity absolutely burned us. The way their ball carrier would delay, wait for the tackler/s to approach, then release the free man happened 100 times. They have trained for it, this is a midfield group that are putting 100 games together against a wierd ass LA Lakers line up with Kobe, Steve Nash and a bunch of bums. We're lucky it wasn't a 100 point loss. The scoreboard flattered us.

3. Tyler Sonsie needs to be either delisted or sent to the VFL. This is a player who doesn't know how to attack with the ball. He was repeatedly in the forward half, ball in hand, slowing the game down, waiting for the Hawks to congest the backline. Had no idea, would proceed to hit up another player 30 metres sideways or ahead, he took too long. Decision making is slow, safe and detrimental to the team. Can't score on the rebound if Tyler decides to wait for the Hawks to flood back and man up.

4. Thomson Dow does have some strengths, he can get the ball. He needs coaching on disposal, which isn't being addressed. Either handball it to a better ball user, or kick it to a contest. He would dump kick directly for turnovers, his handball in the middle to a Hawks player was horrific. He needs to be dropped and must work on his possessions. He is killing us.

5. Cumberland's aerial attack on the ball is worse than many of us keyboard warriors. He is not competitive. To the point where he isn't at afl level.

6. Dusty can't play midfield anymore, the youth of other teams are too fast, he needs to be permanent mid forward now. I want the ball in his head to hit a forward 50 target. He shouldn't be a midfield rotation anymore. Not being used to his strengths. Bad coaching from Yze.

7. Miller should not be having 13 marks, he is a key back, he is not a player we flow our rebounding attack through. The amount of times short, vlastuin, Broad kicked to him was incredibly frustrating. Hawks would have been laughing at this.

8. Seth Campbell getting better and better every week, it's a joy to watch him on the wing, he is making the position his own.

9. Rioli is still creative, breaks the lines and damaging.

10. Taranto is not a good ball user, but a great ball winner and great set shot. Needs someone with class to pass too.

11. Kosi was okay. Lynch was cooked, needs a few weeks.

Lastly, the continuity of our team is concerning, these guys looked like a group of men who never play together. It was yuck to watch. Back to the fundamentals, also, if the switch is there, use it, Hawks knew we were kicking down the line.

Out - sonsie, Dow
In - prestia, Hopper
Sub - cumbo (let McAllife start)

You drop 2 youngsters only ...

Graham? Prestia won't be back in 2 ... there is no such thing as a 2 week calve ... needs to come back through the VFL anyway ... And be able to run out a couple of games at lower intensity

And your INS, seriously?

Tresize and Bauer have talent and a run of good games at VFL and we lose by 50 odd points and they still can't get a run in a season we could not make finals before the bye??

 

[tugga]

I have been a watch let’s see what Cumberland can give and was hoping he would get the rest of the season to either have us commit to him or delist
Was at the game yesterday his efforts were poor first three contests he wasn’t even in the contest think the sub had more possessions and damage in less than half a quarter than Cumberland had for 3
I am now thinking he just won’t make it

I haven’t been going to as many games this year.
Yesterday I went and was gobsmacked at how poor Cumberland was.
He reminds of Alex Sexton pre-Dimma days at the Suns.
Good for a goal or even three but does absolutely nothing else.

 

[Forensi Tiger]

Vlastuin, broad, and Short just go as slow as they possibly can then chip to the right corner pocket, waste another 30 seconds for the oppo to set up perfectly and then go down the line every faaaarken time

We literally play exactly as the opposition wants us too

It’s mind blowing stuff

Let Tom Brown take every or nearly every kick out from here on

Yep and add McIntosh and Broad to that

 

[Groupie_]

remember when media was froffin over carltoon finals crowd last year

we just pulled more from 17th spot

 

[Forensi Tiger]

Can’t complain about injuries any more. There were 14 experienced players out there. The ones still injured are not going to make a big difference.

Apart from skill I feel like we haven’t recruited enough speed in last few years. Dow is slow. Not enough other tricks to be any good. Sonsie and Brown slow.

We lack players with speed and dare out of defence whereas Hawks seemed to have in spades. Rioli is only one that can create with his run. The rest are slow and scared to run or move it quickly.

Then there is our forwards, other mids, tackling, intensity, contested marking…

Apart from that we are fine.

 

[Growapair]

Can’t complain about injuries any more. There were 14 experienced players out there. The ones still injured are not going to make a big difference.

Apart from skill I feel like we haven’t recruited enough speed in last few years. Dow is slow. Not enough other tricks to be any good. Sonsie and Brown slow.

We lack players with speed and dare out of defence whereas Hawks seemed to have in spades. Rioli is only one that can create with his run. The rest are slow and scared to run or move it quickly.

Then there is our forwards, other mids, tackling, intensity, contested marking…

Apart from that we are fine.

Spot on about speed ... Kaleb Smith and James Tresize in great form in the VFL (though I didn't get to the VFL game this week) they bring run and dare out of defence.

 

[Rubber Hips]

Gees filth got sucked off by maggots today…14-24 and missed blatant dropping to daicos and 50 m for a shot to north in front in the last 2 mins of the game…amazing how those things magically happen

 

[One Eyed Tiger]

Unpopular opinion; Jack was shit, asked about 3 questions too many. Dusty didn't want it, we didn't need it. And to throw the family shit in their too, shit all round.

Yep, I love Jack, but my thoughts exactly. If he asked three less questions it would've been okay, and to bring up his dad was poor form.

 

[Cam Payner]

Brown is a liability. Not sure why Yze would put up with a defender who just slowly jogs.


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Being mentored by Short who won the B&F in a premiership year doing it....

 

[TigerPaul71]

Was at the Game, we looked disorganized in backline.
Cumberland has to go.

 

[Cam Payner]

Gotta wonder what our forward coach does?

Collects a pay cheque....

 

[Cam Payner]

Was at the Game, we looked disorganized in backline.
Cumberland has to go.

Not sure Cumberland's to blame for the disorganisation of the backline....

 

[TigerPaul71]

Not sure Cumberland's to blame for the disorganisation of the backline....

He doesn't play in backline, its a comment