Autopsy Round 14, 2024 : Hawks skin Tigers

[Strapping Young Lad]

This is where he gathers the ball, he is already lowView attachment 2022231

He shifts the ball to his other hand which drops his shoulder a little bit
View attachment 2022233

Then moves to get around Vlastuin

View attachment 2022235
And is taken as he is taken his first step View attachment 2022238

Look at the stills I am more convinced it is just a terrible tackle attempt. Vlastuin has to get lower to tackle him legally

You’re correct. Nick was already low and will always be low.

Just like with Poppy, Wiz is going to be extremely tough to tackle, and when not completely upright due his need to push off, the opponent is going to find it extremely difficult to not impede him above the shoulder.

Just look at how low Vlastuin tried to get, and he still screwed it up.

 

[DogDaySonny]

It's not worth the argument but I simply don't agree that he's moving to get around Vlastuin there. I don't think you can claim that he's moving to get around a player when he makes no movement in any direction besides the direction of Vlastuin himself.

I agree with you almost 100% of the time but this is one of those very rare situations when I don’t. Go figure. Rare occurences.

 

[KermitJagger]

Whether or not it's a poor tackle attempt is beside the point, based on the rule clarification in 2022 this shouldn't be a free kick. He was low to begin with, sure, he lowered himself further, dropped his shoulder and drove himself into Vlastuin. Even if it is a free kick, marginally, it's certainly a free kick he looked for - there was no intention at all to try to avoid this tackle. He's trying as hard to avoid that tackle as I try to avoid free morning tea leftovers at work.

I stand by the point that whether or not he's getting them, I hate this being his first instinct. I hate it being any player's first instinct. I don't like these calls when they're against us so I simply can't gather up the energy to support them when they go in our favour.

I also think that at some stage, if he keeps doing it, his name will be in lights and he will be persona non grata with the umpires like Ginnivan is. Last I'm gonna post on it because I'm sure it's tiring for everyone.

 

[SSSSSS]

There has to be some advantage for being a midget on a football field.

He's hard to tackle. He's going to get frees.

 

[hawkinoz]

Didn’t feel like a 92k crowd tbh. Was very quiet from after that Dusty goal, and many tigers supporters seemed barely interested.

Tiger army was shussed for long parts of the game

View attachment 2022267

Whether or not it's a poor tackle attempt is beside the point, based on the rule clarification in 2022 this shouldn't be a free kick. He was low to begin with, sure, he lowered himself further, dropped his shoulder and drove himself into Vlastuin. Even if it is a free kick, marginally, it's certainly a free kick he looked for - there was no intention at all to try to avoid this tackle. He's trying as hard to avoid that tackle as I try to avoid free morning tea leftovers at work.

I stand by the point that whether or not he's getting them, I hate this being his first instinct. I hate it being any player's first instinct. I don't like these calls when they're against us so I simply can't gather up the energy to support them when they go in our favour.

I also think that at some stage, if he keeps doing it, his name will be in lights and he will be persona non grata with the umpires like Ginnivan is. Last I'm gonna post on it because I'm sure it's tiring for everyone.

All that is within half a second.

Wiz is instinctively trying to go around Vlaustin and know if he tries to tackle him he will get a free. Vlaustin has to push him and not tackle.

If we can demand Wiz make quick decisions in half a second( consider future umpiring decisions, AFL rule changes etc etc), then we can demand same of the defender.

 

[Yardie]

Oh c'mon. I didn't want to post the clip because I thought the screenshots showed enough.

View attachment 2022195

Smacked him in the head prior to Watson raising the arm.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Maybe it's because I'm biased, but if you are talking about Watson I think the high frees were there and he didn't milk them.

The reason I believe this is because it's pretty obvious Watson oozes class and he damn well knows it. When he's about to be tackled in a sitaution like the high frees he received, his first reaction isn't I'm going to milk a free, his first reaction is I'm going to take full advantage of my agility, speed and lack of height and I'm going to slip this defenders tackle (get under him if I have to) and snap a ripper to light up the 'G. If I get a free it's a bonus.

So often when you see head high tackles where the player is drawing the free you see them lifting the arm or in some cases it almost looks like they are aiming direct for the players arm with their head. I saw none of that with the Watson frees, he genuinely looked like he wanted to take the defender and beat him fair and sqaure one on one. That's the way he plays and I dare say that's how the umpires interpreted it.

Mate, Watson milked a few. The one in the forward pocket was textbook Selwood, Puopolo, Weightman, Ginnivan, etc.

He's small enough that he won't have to do it to get legitimate free kicks, players are going to hit him in the head accidentally all the time.

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Oh c'mon. I didn't want to post the clip because I thought the screenshots showed enough.

View attachment 2022195

It's as obvious as it gets.

 

[Changa10]

View attachment 2022267

Whether or not it's a poor tackle attempt is beside the point, based on the rule clarification in 2022 this shouldn't be a free kick. He was low to begin with, sure, he lowered himself further, dropped his shoulder and drove himself into Vlastuin. Even if it is a free kick, marginally, it's certainly a free kick he looked for - there was no intention at all to try to avoid this tackle. He's trying as hard to avoid that tackle as I try to avoid free morning tea leftovers at work.

I stand by the point that whether or not he's getting them, I hate this being his first instinct. I hate it being any player's first instinct. I don't like these calls when they're against us so I simply can't gather up the energy to support them when they go in our favour.

I also think that at some stage, if he keeps doing it, his name will be in lights and he will be persona non grata with the umpires like Ginnivan is. Last I'm gonna post on it because I'm sure it's tiring for everyone.

Happened pretty quick, interesting that a second does not come off the clock as it says 9:34 through all screenshots.

Vlastuins mistake here is he lowers his body by bending his knees. When tackling these little blokes he needs to drop his shoulder, not his knees. It’s a pathetic tackling effort and the player with the footy was rightly rewarded for a poor tackle.

I get what you are trying to say, but tacklers need to aim at the hips, not the upper arm. Will give them a far better margin for error if/when players drop slightly into the tackle.

As others have said it’s a poor technique, but that’s what they are taught these days to pin arms instead of ensuring a legal tackle. It’s a risk they take with that approach.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

This is where he gathers the ball, he is already lowView attachment 2022231

He shifts the ball to his other hand which drops his shoulder a little bit
View attachment 2022233

Then moves to get around Vlastuin

View attachment 2022235
And is taken as he is in his first step View attachment 2022238

Looking at the stills I am more convinced it is just a terrible tackle attempt. Vlastuin has to get lower to tackle him legally

Yeh this captures it.

Watson is outrageously short for an AFL player. Accomodations have to be made because the legal area to tackle him is literally about half the size of say Vlaustin's in that image. So the tackling has to be much more accurate.

Adding to it how explosive and strong he is - he's extremely hard to tackle legally unless it's a chase down from behind.

 

[Hodgey 15]

This is fun.



On SM-S906E using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[hawkinoz]

This is fun.



On SM-S906E using BigFooty.com mobile app

especially the bit where you can see Gunner point to Dear where he should run to and the defenders waking up late to that.

 

[matey]

how many 200cm players often get frees from around the neck or get called duckers? It’s not that hard to understand dirt bag Vlastuin is 17cm taller than Wiz so if opponents don’t tackle properly …… bad luck. Hooray one for the short people!

 

[DogDaySonny]

how many 200cm players often get frees from around the neck or get called duckers? It’s not that hard to understand dirt bag Vlastuin is 17cm taller than Wiz so if opponents don’t tackle properly …… bad luck. Hooray one for the short people!

I feel a Randy Newman song coming on.

 

[eldorado]

I'm 100% with Kermit Jagger, and a bit bemused by some of the responses.

If that was Selwood, we'd all be screaming our **** off.

Yes, he is short, but the best way to describe what he does is that he aims his neck at the incoming arm, head already tilted back for emphasis

 

[DogDaySonny]

I'm 100% with Kermit Jagger, and a bit bemused by some of the responses.

If that was Selwood, you'd all be screaming your **** off.

Yes, he is short, butt he best way to describe what he does is that he aims his neck at the incoming arm, head already tilted back for emphasis

This part I agree. I also think it's legit. Where there are quick, small players darting amongst the tree trunks, the trees need to be cautious lest they violate the rules. Selwood did two illegitimate things that have largely been eliminated from the game but that people still complain about, incorrectly:

1. Raising the arm to cause a tackler to slip up to the neck. It hardly happens anymore, and umps rarely reward it when it does happen. Yes, arms go up, as per Wiz, but it's almost always to secure an already high tackle in place and make it obvious for the ref to call, it's rarely now the event that causes the high tackle.

2. Dropping into a crouch or ducking the head to cause a high tackle. Again, this rarely happens and is rarely rewarded. And when it is, a hue and cry arises.

So, what is happening now is also a Selwood innovation, but Poppy was a master as well. Get low to grab the ball and stay low leaning into the tackler in a tight turn toward the goals, pumping your legs like your life depends on it. A lean into a turn isn't a crouch. And a tackler has almost nowhere to effectively grab the player. Frustrating? Sure, but being hard to tackle is the name of the game, right? So, what must a tackler do? He must push the ball carrier off balance and then pounce. Asking too much? You can't tackle beneath the knees either. The game is hard.


So, I don't agree that the Wiz is illegitimately playing for free kicks. Playing for them? 100%. Illegitimately? Absolutely not. Head over the ball, hard into contact. It's how the game is meant to be played. With courage. Right?

 

[Glacier]

I'm 100% with Kermit Jagger, and a bit bemused by some of the responses.

If that was Selwood, you'd all be screaming your **** off.

Yes, he is short, butt he best way to describe what he does is that he aims his neck at the incoming arm, head already tilted back for emphasis

Who cares

 

[Sixpence]

I'm 100% with Kermit Jagger, and a bit bemused by some of the responses.

If that was Selwood, you'd all be screaming your **** off.

Yes, he is short, butt he best way to describe what he does is that he aims his neck at the incoming arm, head already tilted back for emphasis

Conversely, if you watched that live and he didn't raise his elbow, you'd be screaming for a high! As it stands, he got hit high before raising his elbow.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Richmond v Hawthorn​

10 James Sicily

6

James Sicily

Age

30

Ht

188cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

18.3

5star

K

12.7

5star

HB

5.7

4star

M

6.3

5star

T

1.5

3star

MG

365.0

5star

D

19.4

4star

K

14.3

5star

HB

5.1

3star

M

5.9

5star

T

1.0

2star

MG

437.4

5star

D

10.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

4.0

3star

M

4.2

4star

T

2.0

4star

MG

173.8

3star

(HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
3 Joshua Weddle (HAW)
3 Mabior Chol

18

Mabior Chol

Age

27

Ht

200cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

7.5

2star

K

5.3

2star

HB

2.2

2star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.7

4star

G

0.8

4star

D

8.0

2star

K

6.0

2star

HB

2.0

1star

M

2.3

2star

T

2.3

3star

G

0.7

4star

D

9.2

3star

K

6.8

3star

HB

2.4

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

1.8

4star

G

1.2

4star

(HAW)
3 Tim Taranto

14

Tim Taranto

Age

26

Ht

188cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

22.3

5star

K

12.8

5star

HB

9.5

5star

M

3.6

4star

T

5.6

5star

CL

4.1

5star

D

17.0

4star

K

12.0

5star

HB

5.0

3star

M

1.5

2star

T

3.0

4star

CL

5.5

5star

D

15.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

8.0

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

4.0

5star

CL

2.2

4star

(RICH)
3 Jack Scrimshaw

14

Jack Scrimshaw

Age

26

Ht

194cm

Wt

90kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.8

4star

K

7.7

3star

HB

6.1

4star

M

3.7

4star

T

1.4

3star

MG

200.7

3star

D

12.3

3star

K

7.0

3star

HB

5.3

3star

M

2.5

3star

T

1.3

2star

MG

167.0

3star

D

10.2

3star

K

6.4

3star

HB

3.8

3star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.6

4star

MG

155.6

3star

(HAW)

 

[KermitJagger]

Conversely, if you watched that live and he didn't raise his elbow, you'd be screaming for a high! As it stands, he got hit high before raising his elbow.

I know I said I'd stop posting on this but the raising of the arm is an absolute red herring here that I never once mentioned. I don't have an issue with players doing that, it's a natural thing to do if someone is trying to lock you up in a tackle, you're trying to free your arm to dispose of the ball.

My point here is that Watson's first instinct - again, instinct - even before collecting the ball was to look for Vlastuin, lower himself and draw the free kick. He even positioned the ball under his other arm in order to better drive himself into it. The raising of the arm was a little after effect to make sure the umpire 100% saw it.

If you want to see what a player can do in half a second instead of intentionally drawing a tackle, just watch what Day did in the middle when confronted by Dusty. He was in a position where he could have easily lowered himself from an already lowered position to draw a high free kick from Martin but he didn't, he did something better and dance stepped away. That's despite Day being on the move and needing to completely stop his forward momentum to do it.

 

[Mopar Jason]

Richmond v Hawthorn​

10 James Sicily (HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
3 Joshua Weddle (HAW)
3 Mabior Chol (HAW)
3 Tim Taranto (RICH)
3 Jack Scrimshaw (HAW)

I'm glad Scrimshaw got votes as his intercept and contested marking was sensational on the weekend

 

[KermitJagger]

Who cares

Normally on a message board, "who cares" is just reading and scrolling by. Not only did you care enough to post, you cared enough to post something that contributed absolutely nothing to the conversation.

 

[eldorado]

Who cares

The people who are commenting? The ones on a discussion forum?


The only question I have is why you commented then?

 

[ahhhhhh]

Richmond v Hawthorn​

10 James Sicily (HAW)
8 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
3 Joshua Weddle (HAW)
3 Mabior Chol (HAW)
3 Tim Taranto (RICH)
3 Jack Scrimshaw (HAW)

I said it on the night. I reckon Taranto played one of the worst 30-possession games you'll ever see.

 

[KermitJagger]

I said it on the night. I reckon Taranto played one of the worst 30-possession games you'll ever see.

I didn't think he was that bad, probably doesn't even make his own top 5 worst 30 disposal games. He's had some shockers.