Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[BigVic]

Footy in the 2020s is cursed

Each premier have had a form slump and window shut after winning one

 

[larrikan]

Only Naicos (24 disposals, 5 tackles, 6 Clearances, 4 R50’s 8 SI’s, 1 goal) & JDG (16 disposals, 3 tackles, 7 clearances, 2 r50’s, 568MG, 4 SI’s & 1 goal) provided any semblance of consistency over 4 quarters

Unfortunately the team bus remained full with lots of passengers. Our midfield and defence were individually and collectively poor. Oleg had 3 kicks, with 88% TOG with 53MG, Noble had 4 kicks with 80% TOG with 180MG, Long had 4 kicks with 93MG with 75% TOG, Bobby had 7 kicks, 170MG with 90% TOG, IQ had 8 kicks with 5 clangers & Maynard had 12 kicks with 9 direct turnovers

Our goal kicking was extremely poor with 7 goals missed from within 30m with minimal angle to speak of

Our chances of making the finals now based on equations, is reportedly just under 10%. Based on current form. Our season is on life support – some may say we are dead, we just don’t know it yet

It was reported pre-season players were running & lifting PB’s and fit. However 3 early losses were blamed on our players not being fit enough due a delayed start to pre-season training, then an early start to the actual season. The post-season Premiership documentary was considered to be a major distraction

For most part of the season we were under the false impression that we were travelling nicely and if not for the injuries we would be top 2 and vying for back to back

However reality shows we have never really got going. For most part of the season we have played a quarter here or there where we have absolutely demolished the opposition.

R0 – GWS. We kicked 5 goals in the last
R3 - BL. We kicked 5 goals in the 1st & 3rd quarters
R4 – Hawks. We kicked 5 goals in the 2nd to lead by 38 points at ½ time. We won by 2 points
R 5 – PA. We kicked 6 goals in the 2nd & 5 in the 3rd quarter
R 8 – Car. We kicked 5 goals in the 2nd quarter
R 9 – WCE. We kicked 7 goals in the 2nd quarter – but kicked only 4 goals after ½ time
R11 – Freo. We kicked 5 goals in the 3rd quarter to lead by 25 points – game drawn
R12 – WB – We kicked 5 goals in thew 1st quarter – but kicked only 4 goals after ½ time to lose
R14 – NM. We kicked 6 goals in both the 3rd & last quarters to win by 1 point
R16 – GCS. We kicked 5 goals in the last quarter
R17 – Ess. We kicked 5 goals in the 1st quarter – but kicked only 4 goals after ½ time to lose

For other parts of the game, we have been poor, we had no run or intensity & our zone defence system had more holes than Swiss cheese whereby when the opposition kicked a goal, there was a run on of goals which we were unable to stop or change our game style during the quarter

R0 – GWS. GWS kicked 5 goals in both of the 1st & 2nd quarters
R1 – Syd. Swans kicked 5 goals in both of the 3rd & last quarters
R2 – StK. Saints kicked 5 goals in both of the 1st & 3rd quarters
R6 – PA. Port kicked 6 goals in the 1st quarter
R7 – Ess. Bombers kicked 6 goals in the 1st quarter
R8 – Car. Blues kicked 5 goals in the 1st quarter
R11 – Freo kicked 5 goals in the last quarter to draw the game
R12 – WB kicked 5 goals in each of the 2nd & last quarters
R14 – NM. Roos kicked 8 goals in the 1st quarter & 6 goals in the 2nd quarter
R19 – Hawks. Hawks kicked 5 goals in the 3rd quarter & 8 goals in the last quarter

IQ, Maynard & Moore have played every game. Oleg has played 12 games, Noble & Billy F have played 15 games. All of our defensive players have regressed significantly from last year’s form.

We have failed to score a goal in 8 quarters this season. In another 6 quarters we managed only one goal. It would be wrong to claim that the forward line’s impotency is solely due to injury. Because in 6 of the 8 quarters in which we failed to kick a goal & 4 quarters in which we only kicked 1, we had, Cox, Mihocek, McCreery, Hill, Elliott, Schultz in the team

• Where do we go from here?
• What type of players do we need to target? (with limited draft hand)
• What players do we need to trade, delist or retire?
• Do we trade a senior player in the hope of giving us an earlier option at the trade table?
• What impact has the change of our line coaches had on our season?
• Do we wrap some of our players in cotton wool for the season such as JDG, Elliott, Cox etc. to ensure they are fit and firing come pre-season
• Do we give our borderline players a final chance to show something?

Excellent analysis and I really appreciate the time you took to give us the season facts and some real truths. It’s pointed to me that the coaching staff know all of this and still we have not seen individual improvement from players and lines.

Can I add another fact, Fly said our game plan will evolve and is always evolving. We will not stand still with our 2023 game plan. Could it be that we tweaked too much and in a perfect storm other teams worked out how to beat last year’s plan that then worked even better against our new game plan.

It appears teams open us up and own territory and don’t allow our contested fast transition game.

Is it the change of line coaches?

What I do know it is rare to retrain game plans during a season. Possibly injuries to key leaders hampers this too.

Bucks was arrogant (as a coach) to not alter his beliefs. The test now is does Fly stick with what won us a flag or be an innovator and even take a hard look and admit what he got wrong this year.

We all loved the addition of Wade last year. Did he change his training ways due to the intensity of the past two seasons. Was it spin to say we are in better shape? Some clubs look bigger and faster than us.

The club needs to speak to the AFL about how they treat concussion because it has cost us players this year that other teams don’t seem to respect
Any Pies head clash results in tests and protocols but rarely does the other team do the same. After Krueger went down we had Long the back up in the ruck and at one centre bounce Pendles was the ruck! Independent doctors are a must.

I want to make finals but I don’t want to just make up the numbers. We have had finals experience. Let’s have everybody back mid October and restart anew. On a positive note we KNOW exactly where our list is at because practically the whole senior list has had AFL exposure.

Are our young players as exciting as some other teams? No. However they shouldn’t be. We just won a flag with this list. We WON a flag with this list then we tried to strengthen it with upgrades.

How ruthless will the club be with trading ala Hawks moving on Mitchell Hodge Lewis and co. Would you trade Sidebottom to Gold Coast? Would you trade Pendles to North? Sounds sacrilegious doesn’t it?

I dont have answers. I cant see what’s wrong other than a slight lack of desire having achieved greatness for two years while other clubs have improved.

Fly says we are not a losing culture. Facts are we have won 8 out of 18 games. Lost or Drawn 10! We have lost the last four in a row. Coach says every week we will address it Monday and get better. But we haven’t!! So why haven’t we. I suspect players like DeGoey and Josh Daicos are carrying injuries where the club thinks them at 60% is better than the VFL options. Who knows. We are losing games. I don’t believe Fly can address the issue now. I had so much faith in this six game block that ends in Richmond. We failed.

As for putting players out to pasture, surgeries or playing the youngsters, it won’t happen while we are mathematically a chance to qualify. Fly will pick his best team every week to beat the opposition.

Anyway that’s my rant. Im feeling sad but appreciate the magnitude of winning the flag.



Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[KillerMagpies]

Soft.
Hesitant.
Reactionary.
Weak.
Timid.
Confused.

These are the characteristics that you don’t want your team demonstrating… let alone your captain.
By the end, a 3 club journeyman (Chol) was rag-dolling and taking the pi5z outta Moore. It was at this stage I couldn’t endure anymore. When you see your captain being degraded, it’s a knife through the team’s heart.
It’s happened all year.
Take the role away. He served us well and led us to a flag.
We need an alpha leading us, not some gender equity cuck.
Nick Daicos or Bruz.
Rarely beaten.
Scrapping until the end.

 

[barrackers]

Flys presser full of positive vibes. Personally I want him to go full on MM one day and today was the time to do a Dima and say it like it is none of this pc crap today.

I took the opposite out of his presser and thought he was disappointed in our performance. McRae isn’t one to slag players publicly, but there was enough there to sense he thought how effort wasn’t good enough

 

[sr36]

Yeah, but that is what he said. They did trade, but for some pretty good players. Not like us.
What did they give up for Dangerfield? Cameron? I would be happy to give pick 6 if i could get the quality of those players.
They didn't give us pick 6 for Oliver Henry. We were lucky to get a second rounder.

We gave up 2 first rounders + for Treloar, then gave him away for baked beans.
We decided to give a second rounder to Sydney, for a rookie that they were just about to delist..
We gave away Ginnivan for peanuts.

SR, we have been really bad at trading. I mean, really bad. Sometimes i wish we had Dodoro in our club.

Anyway, we won the GF last year, and the last two years have been so good. Pitty we couldn't extend the good times a bit longer like other clubs seem to do.

Our trades look bad if you only look at the bad ones. And exaggerate how bad some were. The Murray trade worked out as a 7 pick downgrade from pick 35 to 42 or something similar and is still regularly bemoaned as a disaster.

There's been some rippers too: Crisp, Howe, Hill, whe, Mitchell, Cameron. There's no flag without our trading.

Cats paid future firsts for Henderson and Caddy. Not exactly winning deals.

They got a great deal for Paddy, but the environment has changed since then. It was the first trade of its kind - a free agent that they traded for. Adelaide had incredible good will towards Paddy and chose to not squeeze them in the trade.

Geelong didn't actually do anything to get Dangerfield. Paddy approached them, and convinced Adelaide to play nice rather than matching and also do a friendly deal.

 

[domus]

With Long i think it’s inside mid or bust. He hasn’t had that role at senior level yet for us

Bust.

 

[HFF]

Bust.

It’s bust for sure
He is Rupert Wills 2.0
Every time he gets the ball he’s running in quick sand.
He doesn’t have elite hands or sharpness of mind or even strength to stand up and break a tackle to dish off for his lack of everything else.

There’s no way he’s better than Fin Macrae who can’t get any regular mins in a side screaming out for freshness on ball

 

[KillerMagpies]

Bust.

Agreed. He’s crap. I think he’s only signed until the end of the year?
Well, we f#%ked around and we found out.

 

[Leigh Lowther]

McRae/staff can only do so much and I don't agree with the criticism that he's too adverse to making moves as we've seen plenty of positional changes this season that disputes this.

Can we instead take a look at the player's we're currently fielding, acknowledge that we don't have as strong of a 22 as we think we do and call it a day.

'Why isn't x,y or z getting selected?' Our depth and development players aren't going to get us over the line - we simply need to get better across the board.

Go pies

 

[adammania9]

One really amusing watch today was Nick Watson slot 3.0 after 7.19 and several OOTFs coming into today.

Reminds me of that night Josh Dunkley

5

Josh Dunkley

Age

27

Ht

191cm

Wt

87kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

21.8

5star

K

10.4

4star

HB

11.3

5star

M

4.3

4star

T

5.8

5star

CL

3.2

5star

D

20.7

5star

K

7.0

3star

HB

13.7

5star

M

2.3

2star

T

5.3

5star

CL

2.7

4star

D

14.2

4star

K

7.2

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

4.0

5star

CL

1.4

4star

kicked 3.0 against us even though he's the worst kick at goal in the league

We love to bring out the best in these types of players

 

[Lunchtime]

Footy in the 2020s is cursed

Each premier have had a form slump and window shut after winning one

Regardless if it's the 2020s or prior....it is hard to win consecutive Premierships.

Since 2000, only 3 teams have won consecutive Premierships:

Brisbane Lions: 2001, 2002 & 2003
Hawthorn: 2013, 2014 & 2015
Richmond: 2019 & 2020 (also won 2017)

 

[sr36]

One really amusing watch today was Nick Watson slot 3.0 after 7.19 and several OOTFs coming into today.

Reminds me of that night Josh Dunkley kicked 3.0 against us even though he's the worst kick at goal in the league

We love to bring out the best in these types of players

Watson is going to be a 50+ goal a year small forward. The 7.19 is an aberration.

 

[sr36]

It’s bust for sure
He is Rupert Wills 2.0
Every time he gets the ball he’s running in quick sand.
He doesn’t have elite hands or sharpness of mind or even strength to stand up and break a tackle to dish off for his lack of everything else.

There’s no way he’s better than Fin Macrae who can’t get any regular mins in a side screaming out for freshness on ball

I hate to say it, but am hoping we just took him due to our injuries and gave him a couple of games to be sure before delisting at the end of the year.

 

[Nicco_jj]

The saddest part of the day is how predictable it was. All week I had absolutely no confidence we would get near them and that is how it panned out yet again. We have lost games before but there is something about the way we lose to Hawthorn which is quite disturbing. We look timid, soft and disinterested. This is how we look most of the time we play Hawthorn. They physically intimidated us and we were reactive all night.

I was embarrassed by some efforts tonight. It's not often I have felt that way.

Rinse and repeat every bloody time we play that mob. FFS fire up Collingwood.

They flogged us in 1990 and 2023, and beat us in 2010 just before the finals.

You know what that means... 2024 is another premiership year for our Pies!

(too soon?)

 

[slugger01]

Our trades look bad if you only look at the bad ones. And exaggerate how bad some were. The Murray trade worked out as a 7 pick downgrade from pick 35 to 42 or something similar and is still regularly bemoaned as a disaster.

There's been some rippers too: Crisp, Howe, Hill, whe, Mitchell, Cameron. There's no flag without our trading.

Cats paid future firsts for Henderson and Caddy. Not exactly winning deals.

They got a great deal for Paddy, but the environment has changed since then. It was the first trade of its kind - a free agent that they traded for. Adelaide had incredible good will towards Paddy and chose to not squeeze them in the trade.

Geelong didn't actually do anything to get Dangerfield. Paddy approached them, and convinced Adelaide to play nice rather than matching and also do a friendly deal.

Crisp was part of the Beams trade. At the time, we gave a premiership player that we didn't want to give away, in his prime. We effectively got De-Goey for him, and as a bonus, Crisp. At the time, Crisp wasn't really a gun. Just turned out that way, and we got lucky with him. We didn't specifically trade draft picks for Crisp

Hill wanted to leave the year before to Essendon. But he was contracted, and we got him after his contract finished the next year, and after his cancer treatment. There was a risk with him, yet we still paid a Future second.

Mitchell was pushed out of Hawthorn. For a 30 year-old, we didn't overpay, but we certainly didn't get a bargain. There was risk with him as well, especially with his recent injuries.

Caddy was a 20yo player with huge promise. Part of the G Ablett trade?? Same as our Beams/Crisp trade???


Look, there were some poor trades by Geelong, no doubt. But we trump them in that area.
They also trump us in good trades, especially recently. Getting pick 7 and a player (a border-best 23 player) is a bloody good deal.

 

[sr36]

Crisp was part of the Beams trade. At the time, we gave a premiership player that we didn't want to give away, in his prime. We effectively got De-Goey for him, and as a bonus, Crisp. At the time, Crisp wasn't really a gun. Just turned out that way, and we got lucky with him. We didn't specifically trade draft picks for Crisp

Hill wanted to leave the year before to Essendon. But he was contracted, and we got him after his contract finished the next year, and after his cancer treatment. There was a risk with him, yet we still paid a Future second.

Mitchell was pushed out of Hawthorn. For a 30 year-old, we didn't overpay, but we certainly didn't get a bargain. There was risk with him as well, especially with his recent injuries.

Caddy was a 20yo player with huge promise. Part of the G Ablett trade?? Same as our Beams/Crisp trade???


Look, there were some poor trades by Geelong, no doubt. But we trump them in that area.
They also trump us in good trades, especially recently. Getting pick 7 and a player (a border-best 23 player) is a bloody good deal.

We also got Greenwood in the Beams deal.

 

[HFF]

I hate to say it, but am hoping we just took him due to our injuries and gave him a couple of games to be sure before delisting at the end of the year.

That’s a disaster way to just waste time though.

 

[sr36]

That’s a disaster way to just waste time though.

We had 17 injured at the time of that draft - short term cover who had been training with us was fair enough. And at the moment, we might as well give him a couple of games to see if he offers more than Macrae, Bytel and Sullivan as depth - we'll assumedly be getting rid of most of them

 

[PonsfordMagpie]

Fly's presser

Where did you feel it went wrong today?

"Contest. Many many areas. I felt they played the conditions way better than us early. We were still trying to play an open field game when clearly it was a contest, contest, territory game. We were trying to address that at half time. They were fantastic around the ball the Hawks and outnumbered us often, broke our tackles easily. Many many areas today, many areas".

Where does it leave you? Mathematically you can still make the finals, but it's a long way back from here but what's the sense internally?

"I just want to talk to our fans first. That's not a representation of us. That was pretty ugly at times and for as long as I'm sitting here, we're not going to enjoy watching some of that back because that's not who we want to be. There's addressing the reality and facts of the game. Then there's getting to work isn't there? We're a team that's spent a better part of two and a half years building a culture about being 'winners'. We lost today, and we're right on the edge of being 'losers'. You can lose and still be 'winners', and we're right on the edge so we addressed that. Talking about what that looks like going forward. Regardless of whatever is to be done, we want to be 'winners' doing it. We've said that from day one and you've heard that come out of my mouth so there's no timeline on that. There's no full stop on that. There's no end date to that. It's just constantly being a 'winner' and the behaviours and the actions and the connection and the systems and doing your job and being reliable and finding 23 guys that really want to fight to the last second. That's being a winner, so there's come back to what you know and that's where we'll start and that's where we'll continue to strive to be".

Did you think the team gave up?

"No. We kicked 1 goal [by] the third quarter. 1 goal. I said to the group we need to take more risks. We had 1 goal, 12 [behinds] in the third quarter. It's not us. We don't want to be that team. We end up with 9 [goals] or something. Again, we had to take more risks to get 9 [goals] or whatever we got. We don't want to put ourselves in that situation with 1 [goal]. We didn't give up, we'll never give up. We'll fight to the last second and that's the team we want to be. Again, you can lose and be a 'loser'. We've got to be careful on that. We need to act like 'winners'".

You were ruthless across your first 2.5 seasons, but today felt like a final and your ruthlessness didn't emerge?

"A lot of reasons to the game like you can break the game down a lot. You don't win contests, you don't win territory in a wet day. It's a wet day, it's a different game to other games you play. You like to think our system stacks up in all conditions. Take territory, and put good pressure on and turn up to contest. We got a lot of the little things today that we just didn't get right when we need to get right. Credit to the opposition, they were up and going and the ball was sort of flicking around and moving well and particularly in the second quarter that breeze was pretty strong and they made the most of their territory, which we didn't. We were a bit slow to the party on that stuff".

You've spoken about playing "on the edge of being losers", and in the wet conditions they demand a commitment to physicality and winning the contest which you didn't. Were you guys up for it?

"There's so many things that you look at at half time and we just we had so many things that were like 'what are we doing here?'. We had a +3 at a D50 stoppage. That means they've got a +3 forward of the ball, so even if we do win it we're going to kick it to them. We were losing those ones as well because we had 3 players right at the coalface of the contest, so then it spills out. On a wet day, you don't need +3 right on the edge of the ball. It just doesn't make sense. We took a long time to get organised in the small things that ultimately made it really hard to get territory. D50 stoppages, they were amazing at them and we were really poor so there's a cost to that. It's hard to win contests when you don't have enough plays in the screen. Again, we made poor choices around the way we set the game up at times".

Do you have any theories why your leaders would allow you to set up in that manner, especially being an experienced team?

"These are the questions that I continue to ask as coaches and players; 'Hey, we've got to be better in these situations'. That's being connected because I'm looking around and going 'hang on a minute, there's three of us here, why are there three of us here for a kick in? There's no one around us'. That's being really strong and connected and again that comes back to the stuff we talk about. We want to be really well connected in phases of the game and today in major parts we weren't, so we'll need to get to work on that. That's not an endpoint, there's no final siren on that stuff".

Are these things fixable quickly?

"Yep. I can you show now. You would like to think so because they're controllable. The other things right now that the opposition are just getting way too much territory against us, so we'll need to look at that and what that means whether it's from clearance, whether it's from the way we move the ball, the way we set up the ground. Those things are right in front of us. They're obvious [and] everyone can see those. Inside 50s against last week [were] -20. Again today, it was really difficult".

Is part of the issue that you have some inexperienced players in the group that haven't quite grasped how to set up?

"I'll counter that inexperienced players with a lot of experienced players. It comes back to the point, 'Help me out here, I'm in my 6th game, help me out here. Am I in the right spot? Maybe to the left a little bit, come back a little bit. Support us' whatever it looks like so those things are within our control. I think youthful energy is important and I think age and experience is important, but not by itself. Not by itself connected".

You spoke about Jordan De Goey

2

Jordan De Goey

Age

28

Ht

188cm

Wt

93kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.7

4star

K

10.0

4star

HB

6.7

4star

M

3.9

4star

T

3.1

5star

CL

2.3

4star

D

15.8

4star

K

9.7

4star

HB

6.2

4star

M

2.8

3star

T

1.7

3star

CL

2.3

4star

D

11.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

5.4

4star

M

1.4

2star

T

4.8

5star

CL

2.6

5star

during the week with challenges around his body, do you get to a point to send him in and get him repaired with his groin issue if the season is over in August?

"I'm not sure what that looks like. We're managing him right now at training. Within games, you see we sort of play him in different roles. Not conserve energy but put him in places where we think he can impact. Then get him around the ball. You can see what he does at centre bounces still, he still does that so I don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves. We're here to stay true to who we want to be and to keep trying to be that team. Those things are futuristic".

Your fans are going to hear and read about this being an "end of an era". Why would it not be an end of an era?

"Because we're still breathing here. Nothing's finished here. We're still here. I guarantee you we'll walk into Monday we'll be getting to work. Nothing's finished. There's no endpoint right now, and I'll argue that there's no endpoint for us ever. It's just continuous. We're in this journey of discovery and a new version of us, exploration. We're still getting better everyday, so where's the endpoint on that? This is a different version of us potentially, but maybe we have to go through this to be a better version of us".

Injuries today with Nathan Kreuger having concussion?

"Kreugs will be out. We'll wait and see how long it takes for him to get through the protocol. It's unfortunate. He'll miss at least 14 days. Got a couple of guys back next week. Beau [McCreery] looks like he's ready to go and Shooter [Schultz] will be available through that I think".

How do you reflect on Dan McStay's return? How do you reflect on his return 8 months after his injury?

"You saw little glimpses didn't you of what he can do for us. Speed, forward of the ball, marks the ball, clean hands. Really tough day, it was blowing sideways and wet. For a key [position] it was difficult. Starved of opportunity at times. We managed him at the end with the workload to make sure he got through. It's an exciting story. If you get yourself a chance, get on the website and watch the 30 minutes that they put together on him. It was pretty special. You've seen the journey he's gone through. Resilience, pick yourself up go again. What a great role model for where we're at right now. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, get on with it. Fall off the bike, get up. As a kid you scrape your knee, get up and go again and here we go. We're falling over today, but we'll pick ourselves up and ideally someone's there to pick us up when I'm down. We won't do this alone, we'll do this together".

Full post-match, R19: Magpies

Watch Collingwood’s press conference after round 19’s match against Hawthorn

www.afl.com.au

 

[Mollythedolly]

Now post his opponents stats. Pendles did not have a great game, he had a couple good plays but overall was not great.
I don't care what the stats say as stats alone don't paint a full picture of his game.

Point me to where I’ve said he had a great game. I’ve said he was among our best. I wouldn’t rate anyone from Collingwood as having a great game on that performance.

 

[slugger01]

We also got Greenwood in the Beams deal.

Yep, we screwed Brisbane in that deal.
They returned the favour, plus interest, in the trade to get Beams back... What did we give them for that again? Do you know?

 

[Mollythedolly]

Hence why we lost by 11 goals to an ok but not brilliant team

Hawks recent form and performances second only to the Swans. I’m not sure downplaying their form adds much to the discussion.

 

[sr36]

Yep, we screwed Brisbane in that deal.
They returned the favour, plus interest, in the trade to get Beams back... What did we give them for that again? Do you know?

A premiership list is the product of about 17 years of gambling on the future. In our case it was 19 years. About 10 players are gambled on a year. Generally, 30 of the over 150 gambles contribute to a flag. There's heaps of bad bets placed by all teams.

I don't know how it's possible to have both drafted and traded really badly like I keep reading on here, yet be the reigning premiers and have won 2 flags and played in 4 grand finals in the last 15 years - only missing the finals about 4 times - it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

[Bianconeri]

Equalisation is not working with Sydney, Hawthorn and Geelong winning the majority of premierships since 2007.

Looks like these 3 will be back in the top 4 and everyone playing 2nd in a few years time. Dark future for the game

We’ve won more premierships than Sydney since 2007.

 

[slugger01]

A premiership list is the product of about 17 years of gambling on the future. In our case it was 19 years. About 10 players are gambled on a year. Generally, 30 of the over 150 gambles contribute to a flag. There's heaps of bad bets placed by all teams.

I don't know how it's possible to have both drafted and traded really badly like I keep reading on here, yet be the reigning premiers and have won 2 flags and played in 4 grand finals in the last 15 years - only missing the finals about 4 times - it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Probably because we have had a couple of one-in-a generation players, and despite our poor trading, we still have won a couple of GFs.
You pointed out Geelong have traded badly as well.
How many GF's have they been in, and how many have they won in the last 19 years? And how many finals they ave missed?
Why haven't we be as good as them recently, and have a mini dynasty?
How come Richmond and Hawthorn have been better recently?