Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[anshell]

I can’t understand what has happened to this team since the King’s birthday game.We had our weakest team of the year that day,and yet we still smashed Melbourne.Yet since then with more stars coming back into the side we’ve got progressively worse each week.It’s just bizarre how quickly we’ve dropped off.

 

[sam_e]

I agree, but where else does he play?

Start him high HFF in the Lipinski role and let him come up to stoppage post CB. Need to make a call EOY and post his 400th but ya can’t hide too many slow players across the park.

I’d drop /trade Lipinski. Too slow & also weak in the contest /refuses to body line the ball.

We’re the oldest list and also close to the slowest.

Confetti strategy re our 1st round picks will bite hard.

Difference btw us and Geelong ..they had a balanced list (age profile wise) and also some talent coming through. Our cupboard is filing up with $2 ‘single use’ SSP buys.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Absolutely this. It's the one issue I have with Fly. For an ex-development coach to consistently sub Macrae/Reef in and out of games then drop them and barely give them time to settle in whilst relying heavily on SSPs and wasting match experience on them when they barely produce better is a big issue.

Add to that pushing a clearly talented but not fully developed player in Ginnivan out instead of trying to nurture that talent is a red flag.

It’s not Fly’s job to draft players. He did an absolutely magnificent job in his first two years at the club, but the players are older now and there’s no one coming through to supplant any of the senior players in the side. Harrison is the only one I can think of who is in our best 22. When you’ve only got one coming through in the next generation of players, you’re in serious trouble and there’s nothing a coach can do.

 

[swoop42]

Today shouldn't have come as a surprise to anyone.

Outside of playing Sydney at the SCG I couldn't think of a worse team to play with our season on the line.

Sure after 40 odd years, hundreds of players and numerous coaches it makes no logical sense but here we are once again.

The Hawthorn hoodoo is very real and the only game of consequence I can vividly recall beating them in was the 2011 Preliminary final. Sad to say but they own us.

Couple that with our recent terrible form and a cold, windy and damp Melbourne day and I just couldn't see any way our midfield would out work and be harder at the contest than theirs. Lose that battle and we lose the game.

And so it was with Hawthorn registering 50% more disposals, 50 f*cking percent, having the top 8 disposal winners on the ground and winning the inside 50 count 69 to 37.

We have problems all over the ground but it starts in the midfield and ours must be bottom 4 right now.

 

[anshell]

Our list of players under 25:

Carmichael - Retired
Richards - He's had a decent year, turning 25
Murphy - Retired
Quaynor - Having a terrible season
Mcreery - Was about to be dropped before his injury
Dean - Might be okay with more preseasons
Macrae - Will be delisted
Parker - Not sure
Begg - Delisted
Eyre - Not sure, hasn't started well in the VFL, injury prone.
Mcinnes - Not trusted by the coaches, struggles to have an impact. Could still make it

Nick Daicos - Gifted F/S. GOAT

Ned Long - Potential delisting
Ryan potential delisting

Steene - Too early to say
Harrison - Had a few good games and a few poor ones

Allan/Jiath/Demattia/Smit too early to say


Basically, get ready for a big rebuild lads.

That list you quoted is a testament to Hine’s incompetence,and why he needs to go now.

 

[gtrain23]

Once again I’m furious we lost and I can’t handle it

Listen to Craig and I’m like ok we are good

No wonder the boys love him

 

[Rusty Beam]

If Ginnivan had put that level of effort in when he played for us he’d still be with us.

He treated today like his GF instead of the one he got to play in last September.

Maybe he just didn’t suit our system with his lack of pace and tackling pressure…

Unfortunately it looks like that system is now broken and probably obsolete. The music has switched off quickly and we have been left without a chair.

 

[Hugg]

Fly is the new Bevo

Overachieved and he’ll be exposed as a mediocre coach for many years. Ned Long second rucking while Frampton rots in the seconds lol

Good performance though. Some more SSP midfielders and we’ll go to another level

Frampton no

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

Tough loss. Beaten to the ball constantly, out pressured, outplayed. Credit to Hawthorn.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Pendles and Sidebottom were terrible in the first half when the game was on the line.

We constantly get burnt by Pendles opponent from center bounces

Hardly surprised you'd think that, but you'd be wrong.

 

[loki04]

Yep. Part of the reason I think we are heading completely for a Eagles’esque cliff.

It doesn’t help that Hine couldn’t find an elite top 30 pick, let alone a late diamond in the rough, if his life depended on it.

TBH I feel for Hine the amount that of top 10 picks we have traded out is mind blowing over 10 years.
Imo the stephenson vs Naughton call should haunt him. People will defend the Stephenson selection off 1 season 2018 but it has literally been a 1 off season and it was short sightedness.
His refusal to invest in KPF low in drafts also needs questioning.

McCreery and Harrison look quality hits.

However McClarty, Poulter, McMahon, among other huge busts given he was a part of the decision to trade a top 5 pick for picks in 20, 30s etc.

Again Schultz trade killing us long term it was such a short sighted almost hubris decision that seemingly lacked any thought into a what about the other side of the coin argument.

Ageing list read oldest list. Injuries more likely with each year especially when completing multiple finals series.
Dearth of TOP end talent coming through pushing senior players.
Won 11 games by under 10 points.
Hunted instead of Hunter.
B2B historically is hard feat that only the truly dominant teams have pulled off.
Lost a heart and soul warrior type in Adams and a team larrikin 1 touch clean clutch player in Ginnivan. Team dynamics upset.
We lost more then we gained.

 

[cfc19902010]

The really obvious thing that’s lacking is without Adams and Mitchell the engine room grunt and hardness is gone .. crisp sparked up for a few weeks and dropped off again JDG can’t run as his groin obviously an issue so nick’s flying the flag on his own

 

[loki04]

Pendles and Sidebottom were terrible in the first half when the game was on the line.

We constantly get burnt by Pendles opponent from center bounces

You are 100% correct but you will never get the support on here for calling it out.

 

[loki04]

The fact that we rely on Pendlebury to attend centre bounces is more the problem.

One of the biggest issues with Pendles is he hasn't shown great capability in other roles when used there previously.

 

[Hugg]

Who

Not sure why but it is ingrained in every Collingwood player in my lifetime to be soft against this mob.

Midfield - needs massive renovation - stop relying on oldies, start looking for players to support Nick in our next tilt in 3 years?

Defending system - worst I have ever seen, unaccountable, but you get a high five for doing nothing but guarding space that ain’t being used. How about we reward non hopeless behaviours

20 goals conceded in wet weather is a complete failure for even wooden spooners

Gives high fives
Markov noble Maynard
Repeat turnovers

 

[Captivating]

If Ginnivan had put that level of effort in when he played for us he’d still be with us.

He treated today like his GF instead of the one he got to play in last September.

He's better coached by Mitchell. Allowed to move outside F50. He destroyed us tonight getting possessions from the wing.

 

[Fat Jesus]

That list you quoted is a testament to Hine’s incompetence,and why he needs to go now.

Reigning Premiers FFS

 

[HFF]

Not sure what game you were watching. Definitely among our best.

Crisp is the only one who has fired some shot all season
Pendlebury had a 2-3 week patch before injury
Sidebottom hasn’t fired a shot all year

 

[loki04]

With all due respect, how does that look compared to the contenders at the moment?

We won a flag last year with a list far from the top talent, we're a system based team and have been exposed this year.

Yeah you could point to injuries, but it's not the only problem, our system has been worked out, and even given last year our system is flawed in that it's not sustainable week in week out for a whole season.

The difference last year we were able to tempo the game when we wanted to. That was clearly evident in the finals series, this year because we aren't applying the manic pressure (because we can't sustain it), we may have patches where we score but when the momentum swings we're exposed.

We aren't contending anytime soon. You can bookmark this post.

It's not just that there has been an interpretation change on holding the ball calls.
Umps are paying HTB very fast now even when players are getting a clean disposal, happened tonight in Q1.
It's curtailed our ability to play tempo like we did through repeat stoppage.

 

[LuckyLee]

Absolutely this. It's the one issue I have with Fly. For an ex-development coach to consistently sub Macrae/Reef in and out of games then drop them and barely give them time to settle in whilst relying heavily on SSPs and wasting match experience on them when they barely produce better is a big issue.

Add to that pushing a clearly talented but not fully developed player in Ginnivan out instead of trying to nurture that talent is a red flag.

Neither would have been repeatedly subbed if they had come in and had big impacts. But they have not. That’s on them. Clearly the coaches lack faith in their ability to make meaningful contributions when matches are in the balance.

Harrison, Richards and Sullivan have all done much more from fewer opportunities. Reef shows glimpses - but only glimpses - whilst Fin looks to be a Cal Brown-like bust. Both have been in the system for ~4 years. They need a step up and claim spots in the team rather than rely on charity selections.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Hugg]

Tom Mitchell ??? He did a power of work in the packs for you guys last year like he did for us , would’ve suited him today. You guys are a bit off tap at the moment with a lot of injuries and guys like De Goey not fully fit and Moore playing the worst football of his career I reckon. Can turn around quickly though. All the best .

Hang in

 

[Stoods]

Just keep all the receipts lads! Our time will come again and boy it's sweet giving it back twice as hard

 

[IlovethePies]

Better opposition on Grand Final day 2023

Exactly.
We just let Ginnivan roam free, for some "tactical" reason.

 

[loki04]

The on-going strapping might be a clue that he's less than 100%. Still among our best today in terms of his impact.

He is hampered but def not in our best this week or since his injury return.

 

[Rusty Beam]

TBH I feel for Hine the amount that of top 10 picks we have traded out is mind blowing over 10 years.
Imo the stephenson vs Naughton call should haunt him. People will defend the Stephenson selection off 1 season 2018 but it has literally been a 1 off season and it was short sightedness.
His refusal to invest in KPF low in drafts also needs questioning.

McCreery and Harrison look quality hits.

However McClarty, Poulter, McMahon, among other huge busts given he was a part of the decision to trade a top 5 pick for picks in 20, 30s etc.

Again Schultz trade killing us long term it was such a short sighted almost hubris decision that seemingly lacked any thought into a what about the other side of the coin argument.

Ageing list read oldest list. Injuries more likely with each year especially when completing multiple finals series.
Dearth of TOP end talent coming through pushing senior players.
Won 11 games by under 10 points.
Hunted instead of Hunter.
B2B historically is hard feat that only the truly dominant teams have pulled off.
Lost a heart and soul warrior type in Adams and a team larrikin 1 touch clean clutch player in Ginnivan. Team dynamics upset.
We lost more then we gained.

Yep, I’ve felt for a while he has a fair dose of both hubris and maybe the inability to speak truth to power etc.

Hubris in his drafting as I get the impression that he is always looking to be too clever by half. IMO he always thinks he can unearth someone who has been overlooked or has a player that has some unique trait that only he can see.

His ability to neither push back against trade options, or even worse propose them, has also led us stranded on a sinking ship. Time and time again our trades have left us hamstrung and in a worse position than otherwise would have been the case if we sat on our hands