Autopsy Round 5, 2024 - Suns destroy hopeless Hawks

[Adelaide Hawk]

OMG, we're not in that bad a shape are we?

 

[Topiary]

What's your view on our talent tops?

I think we are building nicely. Day, Newk, Weddle, Watto, Moore I'm confident will all be A graders. Frenchie and Ward are too early to tell.

Just need another elite mid, a KF and a key back. Reckon we'll click sooner than people think.

I used to think the same. But, To my mind this List needs at least 5-6 AGraders, really good footballers. We desperately need class.

I cannot believe the report that Newman8 just mentioned. Zero contact at training the last two weeks is just appalling. We played like it. Unbelievable!!

 

[triangulation_squared]

Yikes, for some reason I thought the game was on this arvo and missed it.

Makes sense that we get smashed on a 6 day turnaround after a big game last week.

Will hold my comments until I've watched the replay, but geez, hate it when Dimma coached teams beat us. Lucky we didn't trade that first rounder.

 

[nelk boys]

I used to think the same. But, To my mind this List needs at least 5-6 AGraders, really good footballers. We desperately need class.

I cannot believe the report that Newman8 just mentioned. Zero contact at training the last two weeks is just appalling. We played like it. Unbelievable!!

If we fix our midfield we are realistically a 6 goal better side.

I agree on 3-4 more elite players though. Would love a Wardlaw, Sheezel or Reid calibre player.

 

[bigmaxi]

65 years and 13 flags with some very, very lean years as a kid. If this is our worst so be it, we can only go up from here. Bring on Clarko’s Roo’s and the rest of the season.
A slap around at training, some good hard looks and we will bounce back.
We are not that bad.

Thought i would be glass half full and add some stats to my earlier post

Here's a list of AFL premiership winners since 1958:

1. Hawthorn Football Club: 13 premierships (1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015)
2. Essendon Football Club: 8 premierships (1962, 1965, 1984, 1985, 1993, 2000)
3. Richmond Football Club: 5 premierships (1967, 1969, 1973, 1974, 1980, 2017, 2019,2020)
4. Carlton Football Club: 5 premierships (1968, 1970, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1995)
5. Collingwood Football Club: 4 premierships (1958, 1990, 2010,2023)
6. Geelong Football Club: 4 premierships (1963, 2007, 2009, 2011,2022)
7. North Melbourne Football Club: 4 premierships (1975, 1977, 1996, 1999)
8. Brisbane Lions Football Club: 3 premierships (2001, 2002, 2003)
9. Western Bulldogs: 2 premierships (1959, 2016)
10. Melbourne Football Club: 1 premiership (1964,2021)
11. St Kilda Football Club: 1 premiership (1966)
12. Adelaide Football Club: 2 premierships (1997, 1998)
13. West Coast Eagles Football Club: 4 premierships (1992, 1994, 2006, 2018)
14. Sydney Swans Football Club: 2 premierships (2005, 2012)

Feel better my fellow Hawk's lovers. (PS: data from GPT chat, if its missed a few flags for the others then GOOD.)

 

[The hands of stone]

The strategy is right and agree timed best it could given the timing of Clarksons departure, but the execution is the question. We haven’t taken a huge volume of early picks it’s one more top 30 than we would have had with our natural draft hand with a few 2nd round pick upgrades. I’m not as worried re Tasmania as they won’t build like GWS Suns and skew the top end of the draft. The AFL will force them to trade early picks for players to be competitive straight away. Topiary is right though we need to be exploring how to get more high picks not giving them up in trade. Hard to see how we make the case with our start anyway which may be a blessing in disguise and force us to keep drafting.

If your not winning it ,
you need more talent .
So thats a given

We need more than most with our ladder finishes , but I feel the overeaction to losses like last night clouds some judgement on where we might be developing and sit in 12-24 months time ( 20-40 games ).
Things can swing very quickly and a smart added FA , trade or next years draft pick can very quickly transform the dynamic .

Im happy to conceed I'm pretty glass half full on most things and I also default to my own experiences in individual and team development .
These things normally take time , more than everyone involved hopes it does.

FYI - I totally understand and really enjoy Tops posting always . Its always from a passionate place for the Hawks

 

[BobHawk]

Last night the amount of times we refused to go lower and harder than an opponent and then they would get the ball out was really disappointing.

The past fortnight at training, due to numbers, the match simulation has been non contact - if you don't train like you're going to play, what do you expect will happen?

I do want to point out two things that stood out in the last quarter more so cause it showed something from a few players that aren't viewed as willing to do the work or be tough when needed.
Scrimma gave away a free kick, was manning the mark and his opponent took off. Scrimma dived to smother and did so - Jack often cops criticism for refusing to do the hard stuff.

The second one was in the goal square - it was Nick Holman against Massimo D'Ambrosio and Massimo refused to let Holman get in front and kick an easy goal - Frosty patted him on the back, but was the only team mate to get around him and applaud the effort.

I really like this post. The fact that players don't get around a player who may be bullied and pushed around really stands out for me. It sometimes feels like the players are virtually strangers to each other. And they don't play happy, as in that they are enjoying their work. It shows on their faces. Its like everything is really painful. They need to get some coaching on that. There is no such thing as pain.

 

[Newmo89]

Hi Newmo89

I'm interested to know about how you acquire your insights into the club. Do you go to training regularly or are you involved with the club at some level?

Cheers and thanks for your posts/insights.

I attend training usually once a week where I take my long service days from teaching. I do have a few people around the club that I do speak to but also seeing it play out as well. My usual training buddy is TheFourPillars

 

[FB19]

If your not winning it ,
you need more talent .
So thats a given

We need more than most with our ladder finishes , but I feel the overeaction to losses like last night clouds some judgement on where we might be developing and sit in 12-24 months time ( 20-40 games ).
Things can swing very quickly and a smart added FA , trade or next years draft pick can very quickly transform the dynamic .

Im happy to conceed I'm pretty glass half full on most things and I also default to my own experiences in individual and team development .
These things normally take time , more than everyone involved hopes it does.

FYI - I totally understand and really enjoy Tops posting always . Its always from a passionate place for the Hawks

Agree. the taking time I have no issue with I’m concerned we are about to rush it and become nowhere like so many sides before like St kilda or the dons as prime examples. FWIW I hope you’re right on development on 12-24 months but if we hold our picks next few years that would make me happy.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[HawthornHawk]

Just a really disappointing result considering the Suns had a very similar age profile last night. They brought finals type intensity and pressure and we completely wilted.

Those who think it'll be another false dawn for the Suns are dreaming, they are going to be the standard going forward. We are going to have to make some serious moves to be able to compete with them in a few years.

 

[FB19]

Just a really disappointing result considering the Suns had a very similar age profile last night. They brought finals type intensity and pressure and we completely wilted.

Those who think it'll be another false dawn for the Suns are dreaming, they are going to be the standard going forward. We are going to have to make some serious moves to be able to compete with them in a few years.

Yes similar to the giants they seem to have better balance of talent and role players now. Tom Berry was very good Holman puts on good pressure happy for clohesy to get his opportunity etc. they are coming not this year but it’s not far off.

 

[Baz_hawk]

I've rewatched a bit of the game last night but it's just incredibly painful viewing. I don't want to take anything away from the Gold Coast as they were fantastic and brought the pressure from the very start. Having said that, our effort last night was abysmal. Absolutely insipid as a team, as a playing group and as a coaching group.

Some observations:

• We failed to adapt to their tactics which allowed them to move the ball into their half without pressure throughout the night
• We lost a lot of 50/50 contests where GC players just wanted it more
• Felt like we missed a lot of tackles which always gave them an out
• Scrimshaw was very good, conceded a lot of free kicks but I'd say 50% of those were decisions that didn't get paid elsewhere throughout the game so harshly done by there
• Finn up forward worked well, showed some overhead contested marking which is a nice surprise
• Butler will be omitted and I think he's not quite ready just yet but harsh on the kid when we barely had the ball in an attacking thrust all night
• Hard to be critical of any of our defenders given they spent all night dealing with repeat entries and easy, no pressure ball inside 50
• Found it baffling that we didn't throw Hardwick back. Putting him back would then free up a Mitchell or Weddle to try and create some run and carry out of defense.
• To follow on from above, to then push Sicily forward, to an area of the ground that was starved of opportunities was strange. I understand what we were trying to do but it's a strange option when we are struggling to get our hands on the ball

This is the kind of loss that will define the character of the group. The media will be putting a spotlight on the club and rightfully so and you'd hope that this coming weekend we go out on the field and make a point.

 

[Charchi]

Not surprised by the result last night, we have too many young players in, you simply cannot have 10-11 players with less than 50 games and/or <21 years old and expect to win many games. At most we should have 5-6, the balance is all wrong.
Game plan - disgusting, need to have something to kick too in the forward line that actually leads at the kicker, the mid fielders when under pressure they need to kick to advantage. When you’re getting thumped, change the game plan and man up and create a contest.
Effort - our effort last night was appalling, sloppy handballs, missed tackles, what is it with our soft, floating handballs to someone 3 metres away?

 

[Franko Armani]

No injuries is the positive. Probably some sore bodies. Meek copped a nasty hit.

We've got some very important players coming back soon.

Lewis, Day, CJ, Wiz and Wingers are 1-2 weeks away now.

What worries me most is that whilst these are all potentially above average talents, they are all about as injury prone as you can get and may never get a decent run at it which means that in turn, this side may never get a decent run at it.

 

[Franko Armani]

I've rewatched a bit of the game last night but it's just incredibly painful viewing. I don't want to take anything away from the Gold Coast as they were fantastic and brought the pressure from the very start. Having said that, our effort last night was abysmal. Absolutely insipid as a team, as a playing group and as a coaching group.

Some observations:

• We failed to adapt to their tactics which allowed them to move the ball into their half without pressure throughout the night
• We lost a lot of 50/50 contests where GC players just wanted it more
• Felt like we missed a lot of tackles which always gave them an out
• Scrimshaw was very good, conceded a lot of free kicks but I'd say 50% of those were decisions that didn't get paid elsewhere throughout the game so harshly done by there
• Finn up forward worked well, showed some overhead contested marking which is a nice surprise
• Butler will be omitted and I think he's not quite ready just yet but harsh on the kid when we barely had the ball in an attacking thrust all night
• Hard to be critical of any of our defenders given they spent all night dealing with repeat entries and easy, no pressure ball inside 50
• Found it baffling that we didn't throw Hardwick back. Putting him back would then free up a Mitchell or Weddle to try and create some run and carry out of defense.
• To follow on from above, to then push Sicily forward, to an area of the ground that was starved of opportunities was strange. I understand what we were trying to do but it's a strange option when we are struggling to get our hands on the ball

This is the kind of loss that will define the character of the group. The media will be putting a spotlight on the club and rightfully so and you'd hope that this coming weekend we go out on the field and make a point.

At the ground it was obvious our players didn’t know where to position or who was going to take who or chop out. Many times there were 4 or 5 defenders in a cluster without a match up looking at each other, all wondering who was meant to do what.

Sam needs to simplify our game plan.
Enough guarding empty space and actually have our players attack the man with ball.
Play players on their merits and in their best position unless it’s to WIN a close game.
Hardwick back; Sicily back; Amon up the ground; Hustwaite starts in the centre. Rama and Meek the rucks/resting forwards when Lewis is back. Butler out - literally not a yelp in any game so far.

Play Ward in Amons spot so he can get his hands on the ball. Him and McKenzie can swap out at half back.

I probably should just shut up. Looking at last nights stats is dire but surely it won’t get worse than last night again this season? Just happens to be the only game I get see live all year

 

[brew]

Last night the amount of times we refused to go lower and harder than an opponent and then they would get the ball out was really disappointing.

The past fortnight at training, due to numbers, the match simulation has been non contact - if you don't train like you're going to play, what do you expect will happen?

I do want to point out two things that stood out in the last quarter more so cause it showed something from a few players that aren't viewed as willing to do the work or be tough when needed.
Scrimma gave away a free kick, was manning the mark and his opponent took off. Scrimma dived to smother and did so - Jack often cops criticism for refusing to do the hard stuff.

The second one was in the goal square - it was Nick Holman against Massimo D'Ambrosio and Massimo refused to let Holman get in front and kick an easy goal - Frosty patted him on the back, but was the only team mate to get around him and applaud the effort.

Ginnivan gets a bump in the back… Mac Andrews just waltzes off to bench to get a drink of water.

No one stood up for him.

 

[Topiary]

Ginnivan gets a bump in the back… Mac Andrews just waltzes off to bench to get a drink of water.

No one stood up for him.

This says it all. This Group is extremely poor at commitment.

 

[SSSSSS]

This says it all. This Group is extremely poor at commitment.

If Lewis and Hodge were playing Mac Andrew would have left in a wheel chair.

 

[Topiary]

A Harley Reid has what we don’t have. A star.

 

[A Diakos]

Thought i would be glass half full and add some stats to my earlier post

Here's a list of AFL premiership winners since 1958:

1. Hawthorn Football Club: 13 premierships (1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1991, 2008, 2013, 2014, 2015)
2. Essendon Football Club: 8 premierships (1962, 1965, 1984, 1985, 1993, 2000)
3. Richmond Football Club: 5 premierships (1967, 1969, 1973, 1974, 1980, 2017, 2019,2020)
4. Carlton Football Club: 5 premierships (1968, 1970, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1995)
5. Collingwood Football Club: 4 premierships (1958, 1990, 2010,2023)
6. Geelong Football Club: 4 premierships (1963, 2007, 2009, 2011,2022)
7. North Melbourne Football Club: 4 premierships (1975, 1977, 1996, 1999)
8. Brisbane Lions Football Club: 3 premierships (2001, 2002, 2003)
9. Western Bulldogs: 2 premierships (1959, 2016)
10. Melbourne Football Club: 1 premiership (1964,2021)
11. St Kilda Football Club: 1 premiership (1966)
12. Adelaide Football Club: 2 premierships (1997, 1998)
13. West Coast Eagles Football Club: 4 premierships (1992, 1994, 2006, 2018)
14. Sydney Swans Football Club: 2 premierships (2005, 2012)

Feel better my fellow Hawk's lovers. (PS: data from GPT chat, if its missed a few flags for the others then GOOD.)

Essendon is 6 flags not 8

 

[Topiary]

Essendon is 6 flags not 8

Geelong is five premierships.
Richmond eight premierships.
Melbourne two premierships.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Things were odd with Sicily

He definitely attended at least one centre bounce and I’m sure i saw him try 2 marks in the forward line… Not sure where that came from.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Fair to say...lose to Norf and we're in a world of hurt
View attachment 1958765

Absolutely disgraceful draw for a bottom 3 club. The way we have played hasn't helped things but clearly there's no intention from the AFL to give us a leg up unlike their mates down in sleepy hollow. We would have played everyone who finished in the 8 last year besides the Giants by round 11. In what world is that fair?. Instead of just accepting it like the club has make a point that it is not acceptable. Is this punishment for the Cyril Rioli saga?. They can GAGF as far as I'm concerned.

 

[extractasam]

What worries me most is that whilst these are all potentially above average talents, they are all about as injury prone as you can get and may never get a decent run at it which means that in turn, this side may never get a decent run at it.

It’s such an underrated attribute still is availability.

I’d be interested to know how many games that core group of injury prone guys has played together because I feel like it’d be lucky to be 10