One 2 Roo
All Australian
Is it true that Dal could walk as a free agent to NM and we pick up a first round compo pick based on his final salary of 600k?? Potentially delivering pick 4?? Or have I misunderstood?
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List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency
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goodie23
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That's theoretically possible but I highly doubt we'll get band 1 compensation, especially if Franklin and/or Thomas walk on fatter contracts. More likely is band 2 (end of round 1 so 19ish) or band 3 (after 2nd pick so 22ish)
One 2 Roo
All Australian
It would be ideal if the AFL could give us an indication either way... I presume the club is speaking to the AFL about this.
Defacto
Brownlow Medallist
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We do have a HUN journalist posting on here
It's funny that for some reason all the "leaks" are breaking from SEN but it started on here first in April
Why am I not surprised everyone is talking about the saints instead if the pathetic temporary structure the dons have out in their football dept
TheLastEmperor
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The Dal / Delaney trade is reminding me of the Cripps / Brown trade lat year however unlike last year we have the upper hand with our player being the contracted guy. I reckon we'll only trade Dal if the deal is exceptionally in our favour. I wouldn't be surprised if like the Brown situation last year a trade doesn't happen, and I reckon the club wouldn't be concerned either way.
In regards to club champs being traded, unfortunately this is the way of the future - following the EPL and US sport. It's a long time coming really. Do people really think we are the only club moving on club favs? The Pies are 1-2 years behind us in terms of rebuilding. They are on the front foot already with Daisy, Swan and Shaw being floated on the market. All premiership heroes. The Swans parted with Jolly and are about to with Mumford who are both premiership players at their club.
In regards to club champs being traded, unfortunately this is the way of the future - following the EPL and US sport. It's a long time coming really. Do people really think we are the only club moving on club favs? The Pies are 1-2 years behind us in terms of rebuilding. They are on the front foot already with Daisy, Swan and Shaw being floated on the market. All premiership heroes. The Swans parted with Jolly and are about to with Mumford who are both premiership players at their club.
Forgive me people i've pulled a sickie and had 4 coffee's since 6:18am.
Could Gold Coast pull off the mother of all trades and get Dal Santo and Montagna?
If they are serious about winning a flag in the next two years this could be the thing to do. Imagine a midfield of Ablett, Dal, Joey, O'Mera, Prestia, Martain, Swollow, Bennell.
I think i need a rest it's only 38mins into free agency
Could Gold Coast pull off the mother of all trades and get Dal Santo and Montagna?
If they are serious about winning a flag in the next two years this could be the thing to do. Imagine a midfield of Ablett, Dal, Joey, O'Mera, Prestia, Martain, Swollow, Bennell.
I think i need a rest it's only 38mins into free agency
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
McLean and Bradley could've been anything if they were fit and coached/developed well.
Sheedy ruined Kepler by playing him at CHB in a shithouse team and his confidence was shot. He plays really well as a FF/Ruck and his 2012 was fantastic.
McLean was ruined ala Luke Ball. Forced to play through injury instead of getting the treatment his body needed. He had explosive pace and was very much in the mould of Judd and Dangerfield but Melbourne utterly destroyed his body.
So much of these early picks is about development rather than talent.
We all lament Raph Clarke but I look at his time and wonder why he never got an extended run through the middle or at half forward? He was labelled a hbf and that's all he ever got the chance to be.
Paul Roos is going to play Jack Watts as an Adam Goodes style rover next year. Now why the hell didn't Bailey or Neeld try that?
These kids taken with top picks are expected to come in and play the same roles they dominate the juniors with but any serious coach would put them on a development program to change the way they see the game.
This is why I have faith in Watters and the academy. Scotty's mantra to the youth is flexibility - everyone should know how to play two positions.
Its why Siposs, Murdoch and TDL spend time in the midfield. Why Saunders, Armo and Jack rest forward. Why Hickey and Macca are learning key forward patterns and why Gilbert looks set to be the guy to take over Goddard's 'everyman' role.
I'll be upset over losing two of Joey, Dal and Fish (Joey being the one I want to keep most) but if it means we lock in 2 very good KPP (We all love Bruce and Delaney seems highly rated on the North board but they are happy for him to go, knowing he's behind Thompson, Grima and Hansen.) and snare a couple of picks to draft the likes of Acres, Conlon, Cripps, Dunstan, Dumont, JKH, Jones etc then we are in a good place.
These kids are not duds. They all have talent. The question you have to ask is - Do we have the resources and coaches to develop them?
When I look at the progress of Steven, Ross, Newnes and Webster and the impact of first year Saints in Saunders, Murdoch, Lee, Wright and Hickey then in my mind the answer is a resounding YES.
In my opinion the only kid to have gone backwards this year is Siposs and if you take his away the (youthfully justified) arrogance that we as fans instilled in him by declaring him Goddard 2.0 and combine it with the nagging shoulder issues he had, then I think even he can be given a pass. If only on an educational level to not get ahead of himself by believing the hype.
The next few months are important for the club. Yes, our champions deserve respect and the chance to go with dignity BUT the long term development of our on field team has never been more critical and if it means we have to move a couple of champs on then so be it.
This isn't coming as a shock. Dal has been staying/going all year in the media discussion and not 12 months ago we were all happy to shove Fish to the wooden spoon team for a 'risky 18 year old' draft pick.
Let's learn from the Dogs and Brian Lake. No one expected him to leave and if you ask me the Dogs got way unders in the deal, but the Doggies fans look at Nathan Hrovat and Koby Stevens and say "Thanks Brian, you will always be a legend, but we need 10 years from them more than we needed 2 years from you."
Respect, humility and a clear understanding of the reasoning behind it all.
I'll be sad to see our champs go, just like I was sad to see Everett, Hall and the Wakelins go. More importantly though I'll be right on board the newbies that we draft in a couple of months.
I'll hype them. I'll talk them up to my mates and I'll draft them way too early in my fantasy leagues and I think most of you will too.
Thanks for sticking with me this far if you have. Hopefully you can do the same with the Sainters!!
Sheedy ruined Kepler by playing him at CHB in a shithouse team and his confidence was shot. He plays really well as a FF/Ruck and his 2012 was fantastic.
McLean was ruined ala Luke Ball. Forced to play through injury instead of getting the treatment his body needed. He had explosive pace and was very much in the mould of Judd and Dangerfield but Melbourne utterly destroyed his body.
So much of these early picks is about development rather than talent.
We all lament Raph Clarke but I look at his time and wonder why he never got an extended run through the middle or at half forward? He was labelled a hbf and that's all he ever got the chance to be.
Paul Roos is going to play Jack Watts as an Adam Goodes style rover next year. Now why the hell didn't Bailey or Neeld try that?
These kids taken with top picks are expected to come in and play the same roles they dominate the juniors with but any serious coach would put them on a development program to change the way they see the game.
This is why I have faith in Watters and the academy. Scotty's mantra to the youth is flexibility - everyone should know how to play two positions.
Its why Siposs, Murdoch and TDL spend time in the midfield. Why Saunders, Armo and Jack rest forward. Why Hickey and Macca are learning key forward patterns and why Gilbert looks set to be the guy to take over Goddard's 'everyman' role.
I'll be upset over losing two of Joey, Dal and Fish (Joey being the one I want to keep most) but if it means we lock in 2 very good KPP (We all love Bruce and Delaney seems highly rated on the North board but they are happy for him to go, knowing he's behind Thompson, Grima and Hansen.) and snare a couple of picks to draft the likes of Acres, Conlon, Cripps, Dunstan, Dumont, JKH, Jones etc then we are in a good place.
These kids are not duds. They all have talent. The question you have to ask is - Do we have the resources and coaches to develop them?
When I look at the progress of Steven, Ross, Newnes and Webster and the impact of first year Saints in Saunders, Murdoch, Lee, Wright and Hickey then in my mind the answer is a resounding YES.
In my opinion the only kid to have gone backwards this year is Siposs and if you take his away the (youthfully justified) arrogance that we as fans instilled in him by declaring him Goddard 2.0 and combine it with the nagging shoulder issues he had, then I think even he can be given a pass. If only on an educational level to not get ahead of himself by believing the hype.
The next few months are important for the club. Yes, our champions deserve respect and the chance to go with dignity BUT the long term development of our on field team has never been more critical and if it means we have to move a couple of champs on then so be it.
This isn't coming as a shock. Dal has been staying/going all year in the media discussion and not 12 months ago we were all happy to shove Fish to the wooden spoon team for a 'risky 18 year old' draft pick.
Let's learn from the Dogs and Brian Lake. No one expected him to leave and if you ask me the Dogs got way unders in the deal, but the Doggies fans look at Nathan Hrovat and Koby Stevens and say "Thanks Brian, you will always be a legend, but we need 10 years from them more than we needed 2 years from you."
Respect, humility and a clear understanding of the reasoning behind it all.
I'll be sad to see our champs go, just like I was sad to see Everett, Hall and the Wakelins go. More importantly though I'll be right on board the newbies that we draft in a couple of months.
I'll hype them. I'll talk them up to my mates and I'll draft them way too early in my fantasy leagues and I think most of you will too.
Thanks for sticking with me this far if you have. Hopefully you can do the same with the Sainters!!
TheLastEmperor
Cancelled
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Forgive me people i've pulled a sickie and had 4 coffee's since 6:18am.
Could Gold Coast pull off the mother of all trades and get Dal Santo and Montagna?
If they are serious about winning a flag in the next two years this could be the thing to do. Imagine a midfield of Ablett, Dal, Joey, O'Mera, Prestia, Martain, Swollow, Bennell.
I think i need a rest it's only 38mins into free agency
If I were GC I would offer pick 5 (or whatever it is) for both. Then we could trade that pick for the Pies picks 10 & 11....
Persevering Saint
Brownlow Medallist
Why trade a thoroughbred like Dal for a backup backman, who we can easily get for free with our pick 3 in the PSD? Delaney only could ever work as steak knives with something better - but North don't have any decent picks available, and won't give us a good enough player.
How is this in any way "aggressive trading"?
And, as I've shown in my timeline post earlier, come 2015, and especially 2016, our cupboard will be bare in terms of mentors.
How is this in any way "aggressive trading"?
And, as I've shown in my timeline post earlier, come 2015, and especially 2016, our cupboard will be bare in terms of mentors.
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
We couldn't get Delaney in the PSD 'easily'. There are 2 or 3 other clubs with offers on the table. It only takes one of them to tweak their offer to change his 'preferred' club late in the trade window and we'd miss out and Bruce alone won't be enough.
The Bulldogs got a pick in the 40's and an upgraded 2nd rounder for an AA fullback when their next best option was an almost untried Ruck/Forward in Roughead. Not sure we can expect more for a 30 year old hbf. Even the FA market puts his value at an early-mid 20s pick so 25, plus locking in a position player we desperately need, is about right.
GC are not going to offer pick 5 for a couple of 30 year olds.
Just because GWS came after Fisher with a stupidly good offer, doesn't mean we can get it again 12 months later.
Delaney and 25 for Dal.
Fisher for Bruce and a 4th rounder.
Keep Joey.
Draft Kelly, Dunstan, Conlon and then best available.
Dal and Montagna are not just under contract.
They want to stay!
Unlike Goddard, there is little danger they'll walk for a deal which is "whatever we can get" (or nothing) instead of "an offer which clearly benefits the St Kilda Football Club".
If pick 25 and a 26 year old undersized non-best 22 for a non-finals team defender (whose defence ain't that good) is the best the market can do, then he is worth more to us in terms of developing 5-10 midfielders he'll be around six days a week, ten months a year.
Hawthorn under Pelchen did not trade Shane Crawford. They kept him and let the young players see "work ethic".
They want to stay!
Unlike Goddard, there is little danger they'll walk for a deal which is "whatever we can get" (or nothing) instead of "an offer which clearly benefits the St Kilda Football Club".
If pick 25 and a 26 year old undersized non-best 22 for a non-finals team defender (whose defence ain't that good) is the best the market can do, then he is worth more to us in terms of developing 5-10 midfielders he'll be around six days a week, ten months a year.
Hawthorn under Pelchen did not trade Shane Crawford. They kept him and let the young players see "work ethic".
L_W_P
@peteplatinum on Instagram
True. Crawford stayed despite looking at offers from rival clubs.
Hawthorn did move on the likes of Nathan Thompson (119 games and 192 goals when traded) and Jono Hay (149 games) who were both in their prime as players.
We had Buckets, Thommo, Frankie, Aussie, Harvs and Burkey to teach the kids.
We will have had Kosi, Milne, Blake, Roo, Jones, Schneider, Hayes, Dal, Joey, Fish, Dempster, Gwilt and Gilbert teaching the current crop.
Next year we will have only lost 5 of them if both Dal and Fish are moved on.
In 2 years the likes of Armo, McEvoy and Geary become the teachers instead of the students. This is also why we are after guys in that 22-25 bracket.
Hawthorn did move on the likes of Nathan Thompson (119 games and 192 goals when traded) and Jono Hay (149 games) who were both in their prime as players.
We had Buckets, Thommo, Frankie, Aussie, Harvs and Burkey to teach the kids.
We will have had Kosi, Milne, Blake, Roo, Jones, Schneider, Hayes, Dal, Joey, Fish, Dempster, Gwilt and Gilbert teaching the current crop.
Next year we will have only lost 5 of them if both Dal and Fish are moved on.
In 2 years the likes of Armo, McEvoy and Geary become the teachers instead of the students. This is also why we are after guys in that 22-25 bracket.
Barrels
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The HS this morning is suggesting we should "get aggressive" with GWS for their Pick #1 - which for the purposes of twit hypotheticals will be used on Tom Boyd - to "ensure the next Nick Riewoldt is in place when he retires."
The suggestion is that we give up Fisher and McEvoy for Boyd (might do personally), by it loses me when it says we'd give up Jack Steven if it got us Boyd...
The suggestion is that we give up Fisher and McEvoy for Boyd (might do personally), by it loses me when it says we'd give up Jack Steven if it got us Boyd...
One 2 Roo
All Australian
I would give up Fisher and McEvoy for Boyd.
ditto Steven.
ditto Steven.
AFLOnline
Norm Smith Medallist
rules say this is the case (although it does mention age is a minor factor) but the afl will do all it can to ensure it won't happen.
garunteed
Please don't let Joey go.
ralphysaints35
Team Captain
boyd sounds marvalous... i dont think gws need boyd Cameron franklin and patton
AFLOnline
Norm Smith Medallist
buddy may well end up elsewhere yet.
I agree with you all points - Pelchen better be aggressive if Dal is to go, he's done North Melbourne over before. Made a similar point about not having any mentors beyond 2014 and it's going to be a shame seeing these players retire at different clubs - Ball, Goddard and McGuire.
I'd take Joey and 3 for 1 in a heartbeat.
Boyd under the tutelage of Nick Riewoldt for 1-2 years... huge. But if he starts trying to teach him about kicking he should just say he has a thing going on.
Boyd under the tutelage of Nick Riewoldt for 1-2 years... huge. But if he starts trying to teach him about kicking he should just say he has a thing going on.
ralphysaints35
Team Captain
i read somewhere he was a saints fan? i think
Carlton fan unfortunately I'm pretty sure.
Periphery
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Lee to teach kicking Roo to teach running. WE WILL CREATE AN UNSTOPPABLE GOAL KICKING MACHINE!
Why am I seeing flash forwards along the lines of Boyd wearing a number like 42 and then having a retiring Roo give him the 12, then kicking 10 goals some day, then leading the Saints onto the MCG and then holding the premiership cup.
A man can dream...
A man can dream...
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