List Mgmt. 2013 Trade / Draft / Free Agency

[Fehring]

Geelong love trading a pick for 2 picks that aren't too far off. We could get their first rounder

And they would humiliate us by drafting two players better than our one.

 

[Periphery]

Thanks for the replies!

I didn't think there would be much interest in it from other clubs, but thought that it might be worth a shot to try to get a top 20 pick out of the Dal trade.

If the Hawks took the bait we would be:
Out: Dal, 26, 37
In: Delaney, 17

Would leave us with picks 3, 17, 21, 55 in a draft that isn't horribly deep. Use 55 to upgrade Curren, then load up with mids for the other 3 picks. The only issue is that I can't really see the Hawks wanting to do that deal unless we had something else to sweeten it.

 

[Hayes4PM]

Does anyone really know what's going on in the club?
Is it Seaford? Moving on older players? Money problems? A bit off all? Or other?

Dunno what all the complaints about Seaford are as a location. With Peninsula link and Eastlink these days it really isn't that hard. My road has an on-ramp to Peninsula link and I can get to the city in 40 minutes, it's pretty easy these days.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

What I really don't know is if you can do this in conjunction with the free agency rules.
The compensation for a free agent gets better as the player's contract price increases, but what if the previous team paid their contract ?

Might end up suffering similar fate to the scheme GWS hatched in last years trading that the AFL overruled.

 

[Defacto]

Does anyone really know what's going on in the club?
Is it Seaford? Moving on older players? Money problems? A bit off all? Or other?

would be good to know. ive asked the same questions to anyone who has gone with the rumors. no one can answer it. all the say is "trust me"

 

[L_W_P]

would be good to know. ive asked the same questions to anyone who has gone with the rumors. no one can answer it. all the say is "trust me"

If only you knew what they know...

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

 

[goodie23]

I don't think 26 and 37 would get us a great pick upgrade, past pick trades have required two picks close together for a minimal upgrade (eg: 42 & 48 for 39 last year). To get one in the teens we'd probably need to part with two in the 20's (eg: 21 and 26 for 13-17).

 

[VDS66]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

with respect, that is selective quoting from the article.

How about...

They largely held on to top 10 picks to secure home-grown, draft-delivered elite talent - Lance Franklin, Luke Hodge, Jarryd Roughead, Sam Mitchell, Cyril Rioli, Jordan Lewis.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNhi8Ic2

Was Wright responsible for Buddy, Guerra, Mitchell and Hodge? How long has he been at the club? Did he play a large hand in their 2008 squad?

 

[Pykie]

Even though the contract has been triggered, St Kilda can revoke it at any time, and turn Dal Santo into a free agent according to the latest article.

Jon Ralph seems to think the deal is pretty much done, Dal Santo will be moving as a free agent, St Kilda get an end of first round compo pick.

 

[hayes]

I vote for a "sky is falling" thread going so we can keep the doomsday stuff there.

 

[Baker_for_PM]

I may be looking at it with rose coloured glasses on because of the man crush i have on dal but can someone explain why they think a trade for a pick in the mid 20's is better then keeping him as he will be a mentor for the others that we will trade in. Delaney can be picked up later or even through psd i would of thought so even the package deal doesn't seem to be worth it.
I would take the couple of more years from a true champion then risk getting a dud take the chances in the rookie and psd thats what i think there there for.

 

[VDS66]

I may be looking at it with rose coloured glasses on because of the man crush i have on dal but can someone explain why they think a trade for a pick in the mid 20's is better then keeping him as he will be a mentor for the others that we will trade in. Delaney can be picked up later or even through psd i would of thought so even the package deal doesn't seem to be worth it.
I would take the couple of more years from a true champion then risk getting a dud take the chances in the rookie and psd thats what i think there there for.

I think it has more to do with his age and when we expect our next tilt to be (2017 -2018). So if he is not going to be apart of that then you have to weight up the options. Is he taking the place of a future star? How many mentors do we need exactly?

I am of the opposite view. We have to consider the long term implications of keeping him or any player for that matter.

 

[Darkhour]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

Can I ask BrianSpeaking why you are so negative?

Maybe a pointless post but...
Boston Celtics (NBA) traded away Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett this off-season, both of which bleed green.
Paul Pierce is a future Hall Of Famer, Championship winning Captain, One club player for over a decade,
which in the NBA this is close to unheard of. Garnett is a Champ, future Hall of Famer and All-Star over numerous years.
Pierce and Garnett got traded to a championship contending team and have handled it like true gents and professionals. As did the club.
For those who are worried about our stars being traded, as long as all parties are professional I don't see a problem with it. This is something that will get worse and worse as years go by, but we still need to be professional about it and show our own and others that we are a club that looks after their players the right way.
We are not the destination that is most desirable for FA's/trades so I think the way we handle this off-season is the most important in recent history to make sure we don't become a no go zone for potential talent.

36 and 37 year olds.. basketball is a different beast, but they've got probably one shot left?

 

[Richter]

It is quite strong in the top 5 (much stronger top end talent than last year) and then from 5-11 it is weaker than most years. The difference in 14 and 21 is preference, I think that losing (hypothetically) Cripps and Dumont for Freeman is a loss for St Kilda. The draft falls away very sharply at about pick 40.

Cheers for the reply Rahul. From what you are saying then, is this correct...?

- #1-5: potential elite players
- #6-40: much lower chance of being elite but a relative even smatter of probably decent AFL players
- >#40: forgetaboutit...

Hence does it make sense, in this draft, to try to do some or all of these things...

- maximise the number of top 5 picks you can get (no-brainer but practically impossible?)
- prioritise quantity of top 40 picks over minimum number of earlier picks i.e. 2 late 20 picks are better than 1 teen pick

The obvious consequences might be...

- trade Dal to North for two second rounders or #27and a GOP (e.g. Delaney)
- trade Chips for Bruce or a late 30s pick
- trade Rooey for two early second round picks

 

[VDS66]

Even though the contract has been triggered, St Kilda can revoke it at any time, and turn Dal Santo into a free agent according to the latest article.

Jon Ralph seems to think the deal is pretty much done, Dal Santo will be moving as a free agent, St Kilda get an end of first round compo pick.

That works for me. Can be bundled and on traded for a higher pick? Or is that not allowed with a compo pick? with Crows and Bummers out, end of 1st round should be in the top 20. Now we have to see what happens with Buddy.

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

Brian, wow what a revelation, that Hawthorn had a number of people who were responsible for player identification and recruitment. The fact that Wright, Evans and associated staff etc and Pelchen all worked to put together the list, is no surprise.

Look at Saints now, there is a team of people doing exactly the same thing. Trout, Beveridge, Collins, Liberatore, Barnard, Bains and Pelchen are all working together with Watters and the coaching staff to do the same thing at St Kilda. No except the naive or delusional is saying that any one person builds a successful AFL list.

Lets be clear Brian the sniping and veiled and unnamed criticisms are exactly done to shit stir and create unrest with Pelchen and Watters. You profess to love the club, but take every opportunity to run down the admin or staff. What advantage is it to the club, to continually criticise all that is done, or attempted.

The I can't tell or disclose, is seen as just what it is, fantasy and self aggrandisement. You don't build yourself up by trying to tear others down.

As with a number of clubs Saints are in a stage of transition. Staff, players, cronies and hangers on spots are all being reviewed, with a number of them in jeopardy. This is healthy and long long overdue. Roll on the clean out and behind Watters and Pelchen with this.

 

[Saint Bostriots]

Can I ask BrianSpeaking why you are so negative?





36 and 37 year olds.. basketball is a different beast, but they've got probably one shot left?

Age is still relative to StKFC situation. I do realize Dal isn't 36...

 

[hayes]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

And what about his time at Port which culminated in a flag?

 

[dewah07]

Not going to happen here on an open forum mate, or even in PM's with people we don't know personally.

Here is an excerpt from The Age today, you guy know I have been banging on about Pelchen not really putting the Hawks list together but instead I have credited Graeme Wright, ex Collingwood player. This backs to a certain extent why I don't rate the relationship destroying ego maniac.

Our football setup is a laughing stock in the AFL industry, I'm not saying that to shit stir, I am just telling you guys who are not involved the perception from an insiders view point.

Evans was one of those who helped build this team. He was the one to make the cap fit, but Graeme Wright was the man to find the players - teenagers and veterans who arrived to construct this side.
''In my time at Hawthorn all of the big decisions were ticked off by the football subcommittee, but Graeme Wright was the person responsible for bringing those ideas to the table and he deserves a lot of the credit for this team,'' Evans said.


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/the-building-of-a-machine-20130929-2umit.html#ixzz2gNeHVy4U

do u also give0 credit when he was at Port adelaide and put together thier premeship team? cant wait for this response

 

[Richter]

Dunno what all the complaints about Seaford are as a location. With Peninsula link and Eastlink these days it really isn't that hard. My road has an on-ramp to Peninsula link and I can get to the city in 40 minutes, it's pretty easy these days.

Compared to your club training at Gosch's paddock or on Punt Road... you can live in the inner City and potentially walk to work.

Really we'd be better off playing up the distance thing and arguing for an out of town allowance on top of our salary cap. An hour extra commuting time per player per day x 50 players = an extra $1m on the cap...?

 

[VDS66]

Brian, wow what a revelation, that Hawthorn had a number of people who were responsible for player identification and recruitment. The fact that Wright, Evans and associated staff etc and Pelchen all worked to put together the list, is no surprise.

Look at Saints now, there is a team of people doing exactly the same thing. Trout, Beveridge, Collins, Liberatore, Barnard, Bains and Pelchen are all working together with Watters and the coaching staff to do the same thing at St Kilda. No except the naive or delusional is saying that any one person builds a successful AFL list.

Lets be clear Brian the sniping and veiled and unnamed criticisms are exactly done to shit stir and create unrest with Pelchen and Watters. You profess to love the club, but take every opportunity to run down the admin or staff. What advantage is it to the club, to continually criticise all that is done, or attempted.

The I can't tell or disclose, is seen as just what it is, fantasy and self aggrandisement. You don't build yourself up by trying to tear others down.

As with a number of clubs Saints are in a stage of transition. Staff, players, cronies and hangers on spots are all being reviewed, with a number of them in jeopardy. This is healthy and long long overdue. Roll on the clean out and behind Watters and Pelchen with this.

Why waste your breath? BS has made up his mind about Pelch so it is what it is in his eyes.

FTR: wright joined in 2007 as east coast recruiting manager and became national manager after Pelchan quit in 2011(?)

 

[Hayes4PM]

I may be looking at it with rose coloured glasses on because of the man crush i have on dal but can someone explain why they think a trade for a pick in the mid 20's is better then keeping him as he will be a mentor for the others that we will trade in. Delaney can be picked up later or even through psd i would of thought so even the package deal doesn't seem to be worth it.
I would take the couple of more years from a true champion then risk getting a dud take the chances in the rookie and psd thats what i think there there for.

I agree, Dal is worth more than people are saying. His worst is still above average and his best is All Australian. In an ideal world Dal stays and holds down a spot in the midfield for another 4 years and oversees the next generation (Steven, Curren, Newnes, Ross, Kelly) of mids and helps keep us at the very least competitive. I don't want to see us become Melbourne football club.

PS: Baker will never make PM while Lenny is running .

 

[Jack Stevens]

I'm probably over thinking this, but I think that if we're going to get rid of Dal, it should be part of a bigger trade rather than a straight swap. Imagine the pressure put on the kid taken with the "Dal Santo pick" by the entire footy community, constantly analysing whether booting out a popular, senior player was worth it. I can imagine the media using that player's progress as a barometer for our rebuild as a whole; "that player that they brought in for Dal isn't doing too well, St Kilda's list management is clearly in shambles". Sure, they could turn out to be a star, but it's a pretty heavy weight to put on any 18 year old.

 

[Richter]

I may be looking at it with rose coloured glasses on because of the man crush i have on dal but can someone explain why they think a trade for a pick in the mid 20's is better then keeping him as he will be a mentor for the others that we will trade in. Delaney can be picked up later or even through psd i would of thought so even the package deal doesn't seem to be worth it.
I would take the couple of more years from a true champion then risk getting a dud take the chances in the rookie and psd thats what i think there there for.

I am not convinced either BUT here we go for an argument FOR this trade...

- Delaney does have interest from other clubs. Because he probably isn't a dick he will probably not want to stiff his original club, who nb his brother will continue to play for. His preference for St Kilda is just that... a preference... not a demand... upshot being we will likely have to trade something in order to get him...

- the draft plateaus after #5 and drops off a cliff after #40. There may not be a huge difference between #6 and #40 (or not as much as in other years anyway)

- how many mentors do we need? Outside of Dal we still have experienced midfielders in Lenny, Joey, CJ, Schneider and Ray at the club. Perhaps they would be as good or better mentors than Dal... but aside from Joey none have the potential trade value that he has.