List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

What should we do with our 1st round draft pick?

  • Finn O’Sullivan

    Votes: 57 19.0%
  • Sid Draper

    Votes: 86 28.7%
  • Josh Smillie

    Votes: 22 7.3%
  • Jagga Smith

    Votes: 34 11.3%
  • Split for best mid and Tobie Travaglia

    Votes: 46 15.3%
  • Split for best mid and Liam Baker

    Votes: 20 6.7%
  • Split for best mid and best KPD

    Votes: 4 1.3%
  • Split for best two mids

    Votes: 9 3.0%
  • Other

    Votes: 13 4.3%
  • Sam Lalor

    Votes: 9 3.0%

  • Total voters
    300
  • This poll will close: .

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He’s an incredible extractor, he’s very Butters like with how evasive he is at the coal face.

Smillie is the best pure contested / battering ram inside mid but is extremely limited outside of stoppages and has a big advantage over kids he plays against due to his size.
If that's the case, he's a no brainer
 
Wasn’t sold on Carroll today. Although he’s probably current best 22 for us, he looks like the sort of serviceable player you don’t really want in your best 22 when you’re contending.

Would rather Garcia, Peatling or even Dev if we were going for opposition fringe players.
Id have Carrol as a fallback option if we cant get Dev/Garcia/Peatling or whoever to come across.

If they arent going to be clear best 22 for us then they need to be able to play another role, I dont think Carrol can tbh.
Id have a lot more faith in Dev or Peatling playing half forward in a defensive role
 

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Is Jagga the biggest clearance player/ball pig in the draft?

He may not be the player I want but he probably is the player we need, if that's the case.
He’s on a similar level to Draper but I’d personally take Draper. I think he’s slightly quicker and works better both ways than Smith. Would be interesting to know how Jagga feels about moving West when he probably feels he’s in the sights of Richmond. It can be an issue for clubs outside of Melbourne when the top of the draft is littered with metro boys as we all know.

If we can’t get Draper at 3 my preference would be to slide back to where we can take Tobie. Bank a draft pick and move on. He sits in the 5-10 range for me personally so grab him and bank a second round pick if possible.

I know people are possibly going to get berry sick of me mentioning Joe but take him with the Hawks pick for TB. He’s class and another Vic Country boy.

Hynes at pick 23. He’s got good size, uses the ball well and a very solid kick. Can play a number or roles I feel at AFL level.

With the sweetner pick from splitting pick 3 take the best tall kpd. Kick the midfield picks down the road for a year. We will still have a top 5 pick next year plus hopefully the Hawks F1 if we win trade week. There will be good midfield options next year too.

Split pick 3 : Toby Travaglia
Pick 11-14: Joe Berry
Pick 23: Cooper Hynes
Pick 25-35(from pick 3 split) : Mraz or O’Farrell
Academy: Champion

After Champion I’d like us to trade back in and take one of the players that may be late in the draft such as Barrat, Hamish Davis, Artemis, Gerryen, Zac Johnson or someone else that slides. How the club does that I’m not sure but it would be a good thing there’s going to be value there.

This draft it’s quite deep the at the bottom of the draft but perhaps lacking the real top end quality in the first few picks.
 
We likely delist a heap of known spuds in their mid 20s and older this year.
We wont have 8 draft picks to replace them all. A few players in their 20s with higher upside than what we have delisted and who play more suitable roles (Like an inside mid perhaps) will be required.

We already have half the list 22 and under, take away 8 players over 22 and only use the draft to replenish then we have 75% of the list 23 and under.
Thats North territory.


We need better role players traded in from other clubs, and recruit find stars in the draft
Good point. I think the way to do that though is via FA rather than trade picks for middling players. We have our 19-21yos and will (hopefully) add a KPD and some outside mids this year too.

There are options this year who are very good (but not elite) players and the same with next year. Speed and foot skills are the two areas I’d like to prioritise but any player who improves our best 22 should get a call. Adding Cumming this year and then say Starcevich and Farrell next year would push LEdwards out, Witherden out, frees up Hough and would have Hunt and Cole looking over their shoulder.
 
If we can’t get Draper at 3 my preference would be to slide back to where we can take Tobie. Bank a draft pick and move on. He sits in the 5-10 range for me personally so grab him and bank a second round pick if possible.

I know people are possibly going to get berry sick of me mentioning Joe but take him with the Hawks pick for TB. He’s class and another Vic Country boy.

Hynes at pick 23. He’s got good size, uses the ball well and a very solid kick. Can play a number or roles I feel at AFL level.

With the sweetner pick from splitting pick 3 take the best tall kpd. Kick the midfield picks down the road for a year. We will still have a top 5 pick next year plus hopefully the Hawks F1 if we win trade week. There will be good midfield options next year too.

Split pick 3 : Toby Travaglia
Pick 11-14: Joe Berry
Pick 23: Cooper Hynes
Pick 25-35(from pick 3 split) : Mraz or O’Farrell
Academy: Champion
If we know Tobie will be gone by a potential Barrass pick I’d split no matter who’s available at pick 3 as long as we are guaranteed Tobie. Best case scenario and he’s going to be there at TB pick then I’m similar to you.

Assume Barrass for Hawks 1R (12) & Pies 2R (28)

1st preference to 3rd preference
3-FOS/Draper/Lalor
12-Travaglia/Lindsay/Pick slide past KPFs
23-Hynes/Gross/Oliver
28-Mraz*/O’Farrell/Gerreyn
40-Champion match (trade BWill/Petch)
58-Dennis/Johnson/Barrat

There also might be a few teams who don’t have enough list spots to take a 4R pick, we should be looking to trade our F4 into the 4R this year in what is a very deep draft.
 
If we know Tobie will be gone by a potential Barrass pick I’d split no matter who’s available at pick 3 as long as we are guaranteed Tobie. Best case scenario and he’s going to be there at TB pick then I’m similar to you.

Assume Barrass for Hawks 1R (12) & Pies 2R (28)

1st preference to 3rd preference
3-FOS/Draper/Lalor
12-Travaglia/Lindsay/Pick slide past KPFs
23-Hynes/Gross/Oliver
28-Mraz*/O’Farrell/Gerreyn
40-Champion match (trade BWill/Petch)
58-Dennis/Johnson/Barrat

There also might be a few teams who don’t have enough list spots to take a 4R pick, we should be looking to trade our F4 into the 4R this year in what is a very deep draft.
Gross is an interesting one I think he’s well under the radar but never really considered him an Eagles pick?
 
Long and Johnston. Would also have Maric and Archer Reid up there in spite of their size.
Add Yeo to that list. North game, Yeo’s hands were elite. Thrilled to see you mention HJ, his hands unlock the game for us hugely.

I've got a hard on for Trew not you, he comes from the same junior side as I did. Sorry but Gingers kinda gross me out so you've got nothing to worry about there, there's something about not having a soul that unsettles me about you guys ;)

We've gone over the video before that's why I'm surprised you're sticking to your guns. He had 17 possessions 14 handballs missed one because Jack Williams didn't stick his mitts out as it shaved his dick then hit the saints bloke on the other side of the pack, the rest hit their target. And the 3 kicks were to 50/50's. The past 2 weeks he's kicked some classy goals and been even better by hand. Had very low output today but appears pretty obvious he was tasked with a shut down on Cripps [that he hadn't prepared for pre game] in the second half but started strong with 4 clearances early.

Can anyone other than Badge make an honest case for a player on our list with better hands than Trew? Harley maybe?

I’m not sitting here all night to slam Zane Trew. If he makes it, that’s good for us, so I’d like him to make it. But the initial conversation I was having with someone else was why do you not think his disposal is reliable. Those clips sum it up. The kicks are not all to 50/50s, one of them is (which is kicked nowhere near the forwards advantage) and the rest are brutal turnovers.

View attachment Trew.mov


View attachment Trew.mov

Some of the handballs I’m talking about still get to the target, but are behind or way in front. Handballs that definitely aren’t ‘misses’, but do make the receiver change their mind or have to rush their kick. They keep the ball moving but they hardly unlock the game.

See Harley opening clip, it’s behind him so makes him stop rather than in stride. Or the handball miles in front Ginbey so he has to hack around the corner (a shit kick too, it’s Ginbey’s fault ultimately, but I’m not wowed by anything in that sequence).


View attachment Trew.mov

I’m not saying he should be forced to make a public apology tomorrow at MRP. I’m not even saying I’d be upset if we gave him another year to prove himself. We’ve handled his entire career poorly too, so I’m not even saying any of this is his fault.

But the concept of being concerned about his ball use is hardly some slanderous attack when there’s plenty of clips like this going around. It’s really not that big of a deal.
 
Shanahan’s VFL form could very well be a blessing for us to if it continues. The way he’s going he could smash his way into top 5 calculations over the next few weeks. It’s too early to call it just yet but….

Clubs are more likely to scramble for a kpf making it easier for a club to split if they wish to. Shanahan and Armstrong are big watches over the next month.
 
He’s on a similar level to Draper but I’d personally take Draper. I think he’s slightly quicker and works better both ways than Smith. Would be interesting to know how Jagga feels about moving West when he probably feels he’s in the sights of Richmond. It can be an issue for clubs outside of Melbourne when the top of the draft is littered with metro boys as we all know.

If we can’t get Draper at 3 my preference would be to slide back to where we can take Tobie. Bank a draft pick and move on. He sits in the 5-10 range for me personally so grab him and bank a second round pick if possible.

I know people are possibly going to get berry sick of me mentioning Joe but take him with the Hawks pick for TB. He’s class and another Vic Country boy.

Hynes at pick 23. He’s got good size, uses the ball well and a very solid kick. Can play a number or roles I feel at AFL level.

With the sweetner pick from splitting pick 3 take the best tall kpd. Kick the midfield picks down the road for a year. We will still have a top 5 pick next year plus hopefully the Hawks F1 if we win trade week. There will be good midfield options next year too.

Split pick 3 : Toby Travaglia
Pick 11-14: Joe Berry
Pick 23: Cooper Hynes
Pick 25-35(from pick 3 split) : Mraz or O’Farrell
Academy: Champion

After Champion I’d like us to trade back in and take one of the players that may be late in the draft such as Barrat, Hamish Davis, Artemis, Gerryen, Zac Johnson or someone else that slides. How the club does that I’m not sure but it would be a good thing there’s going to be value there.

This draft it’s quite deep the at the bottom of the draft but perhaps lacking the real top end quality in the first few picks.

There’s a couple others I’d probably prefer but I definitely don’t hate the Berry suggestion. We have a fair few small forwards but none project to be high volume score involvement / goal kickers.

I think Berry will be.
 
Add Yeo to that list. North game, Yeo’s hands were elite. Thrilled to see you mention HJ, his hands unlock the game for us hugely.



I’m not sitting here all night to slam Zane Trew. If he makes it, that’s good for us, so I’d like him to make it. But the initial conversation I was having with someone else was why do you not think his disposal is reliable. Those clips sum it up. The kicks are not all to 50/50s, one of them is (which is kicked nowhere near the forwards advantage) and the rest are brutal turnovers.

View attachment 2084224


View attachment 2084227

Some of the handballs I’m talking about still get to the target, but are behind or way in front. Handballs that definitely aren’t ‘misses’, but do make the receiver change their mind or have to rush their kick. They keep the ball moving but they hardly unlock the game.

See Harley opening clip, it’s behind him so makes him stop rather than in stride. Or the handball miles in front Ginbey so he has to hack around the corner (a shit kick too, it’s Ginbey’s fault ultimately, but I’m not wowed by anything in that sequence).


View attachment 2084228

I’m not saying he should be forced to make a public apology tomorrow at MRP. I’m not even saying I’d be upset if we gave him another year to prove himself. We’ve handled his entire career poorly too, so I’m not even saying any of this is his fault.

But the concept of being concerned about his ball use is hardly some slanderous attack when there’s plenty of clips like this going around. It’s really not that big of a deal.

That game was his first one back in the side for the year and his hands have been even better since then as has his kicking. As others have said you can be a Trew fan or not but to say the knock on his game is his disposal is just way off the mark if you wanted to rank it against the 44 other blokes on the list. How many times today or over their careers have All Australian level mids of ours put handballs hitting turf in front of a bloke or go metres behind him but you're quibbling about balls being slightly off of perfect from a guy with less than 10 games. At 50 or 100 games Trew projects to hit 99 out of 100 of the types of balls Yeo, Kelly, Duggan, Gaff routinely go at about 70/30 for. He's an upgrade in the skills department.
 
That game was his first one back in the side for the year and his hands have been even better since then as has his kicking. As others have said you can be a Trew fan or not but to say the knock on his game is his disposal is just way off the mark if you wanted to rank it against the 44 other blokes on the list. How many times today or over their careers have All Australian level mids of ours put handballs hitting turf in front of a bloke or go metres behind him but you're quibbling about balls being slightly off of perfect from a guy with less than 10 games. At 50 or 100 games Trew projects to hit 99 out of 100 of the types of balls Yeo, Kelly, Duggan, Gaff routinely go at about 70/30 for. He's an upgrade in the skills department.
It was his second game, his first game back was his career best by a mile against Brisbane (21 touches). Gave us some hope for sure.

If we’re quoting stats, he’s had 65 touches in five actual games under Schofield (threw out the Freo game entirely for obvious reasons). 13 turnovers. 13/65=0.2

So one in five of Zane Trew’s touches goes the other way, on an average of 13 touches per completed game.

I’m nervous when he has the footy. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s some crazy hill to die on. Hope he has 30 and 3 votes next week, gets another year, then becomes the second coming of Jetta by foot next year to prove me wrong.
 
Good point. I think the way to do that though is via FA rather than trade picks for middling players. We have our 19-21yos and will (hopefully) add a KPD and some outside mids this year too.

There are options this year who are very good (but not elite) players and the same with next year. Speed and foot skills are the two areas I’d like to prioritise but any player who improves our best 22 should get a call. Adding Cumming this year and then say Starcevich and Farrell next year would push LEdwards out, Witherden out, frees up Hough and would have Hunt and Cole looking over their shoulder.
Cumming would obviously be ideal, Perryman awesome too, but I dont think we are in with much of a chance at this stage unless we throw huge almost band 1 money at them.
For this year at least if we are making close to 10 list changes we will need to find at least a couple of free agents.

Id like to talk to these guys along with the obvious bigger name free agents:
Mitch Duncan - on a 1-2 year deal, elite user of the ball at half back or wing, and a WA boy. See if hes interested in coaching. Would be easy to nurse him through rotating him in and out of the side with some kids.
Harry Morrison - 25 year old inside mid depth who cant get a game at the Hawks(If we get Dev/Peatling then skip him)
Darcy MacPherson - small defender who was top 10 in the B&F at GC last year, but out of favour with Dimma at the helm.
Nick Haynes - KPD depth

All are better than some of the guys we are delisting, and Duncan/Macpherson as defensive depth will be handy when we lose Rotham/JJ/Witho.

Get 2 of these guys and then Dev/Peatling, plus a Clurey type if we still want KPD depth.

3-4 players and 5 kids in the draft is 8-9 changes. Can maybe keep Witho for another year then and look at FA again next year with Starcevich/Farrell and whoever else is available.
 

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It was his second game, his first game back was his career best by a mile against Brisbane (21 touches). Gave us some hope for sure.

If we’re quoting stats, he’s had 65 touches in five actual games under Schofield (threw out the Freo game entirely for obvious reasons). 13 turnovers. 13/65=0.2

So one in five of Zane Trew’s touches goes the other way, on an average of 13 touches per completed game.

I’m nervous when he has the footy. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I don’t think it’s some crazy hill to die on. Hope he has 30 and 3 votes next week, gets another year, then becomes the second coming of Jetta by foot next year to prove me wrong.

Oh we're quoting stats? Prior to today he'd had 65 for 10 clangers and 3 free's against. Not sure you should count umpiring decisions against Eagles players as disposals.

Add today, looks like he's had 70 disposals for 12 clangers this year. So 0.17

Given he was a norm smith medalist and a club captain and he's the last player to retire from the middle, let's compare to Luke Shuey circa 2022/2023. 0.19 and 0.18 so Trew's not exactly a downgrade in the clangers department on late model Shuey, slightest of improvements if you want to go by that specific metric. I know you like to raise the floor on a list, ticks box.

Compared to Kelly? Going at 0.15 this year, 0.19 last year. Draw?

Compared to Yeo? Going at 0.14 this year, 0.15 last year. Advantage Yeo

Compared to Duggan? 0.15 this year, 0.15 last year. Advantage Duggan

Compared to Reid? Going at 0.24 this year, delist please. Diabolical by hand and foot!

Compared to Ginbey? Going at 0.14, has paid someone off here for sure.

Patrick Cripps? Going at, checks notes, 0.17

Clay Hall, 0.17 so far. Tracking well young man.

I reckon just relax let him cook, nothing to suggest his disposal is suspect at all compared to some pretty elite company and hopefully he continues to be significantly better at football than that spud Harley Reid, moves past Patrick Cripps levels of mediocrity and eventually settles into elite Ginbey territory.
 
Oh we're quoting stats? Prior to today he'd had 65 for 10 clangers and 3 free's against. Not sure you should count umpiring decisions against Eagles players as disposals.

Add today, looks like he's had 70 disposals for 12 clangers this year. So 0.17

Given he was a norm smith medalist and a club captain and he's the last player to retire from the middle, let's compare to Luke Shuey circa 2022/2023. 0.19 and 0.18 so Trew's not exactly a downgrade in the clangers department on late model Shuey, slightest of improvements if you want to go by that specific metric. I know you like to raise the floor on a list, ticks box.

Compared to Kelly? Going at 0.15 this year, 0.19 last year. Draw?

Compared to Yeo? Going at 0.14 this year, 0.15 last year. Advantage Yeo

Compared to Duggan? 0.15 this year, 0.15 last year. Advantage Duggan

Compared to Reid? Going at 0.24 this year, delist please. Diabolical by hand and foot!

Compared to Ginbey? Going at 0.14, has paid someone off here for sure.

Patrick Cripps? Going at, checks notes, 0.17

Clay Hall, 0.17 so far. Tracking well young man.

I reckon just relax let him cook, nothing to suggest his disposal is suspect at all compared to some pretty elite company and hopefully he continues to be significantly better at football than that spud Harley Reid, moves past Patrick Cripps levels of mediocrity and eventually settles into elite Ginbey territory.

Hope you've got some support around you when he's cut in ten days
 
He’s on a similar level to Draper but I’d personally take Draper. I think he’s slightly quicker and works better both ways than Smith. Would be interesting to know how Jagga feels about moving West when he probably feels he’s in the sights of Richmond. It can be an issue for clubs outside of Melbourne when the top of the draft is littered with metro boys as we all know.

If we can’t get Draper at 3 my preference would be to slide back to where we can take Tobie. Bank a draft pick and move on. He sits in the 5-10 range for me personally so grab him and bank a second round pick if possible.

I know people are possibly going to get berry sick of me mentioning Joe but take him with the Hawks pick for TB. He’s class and another Vic Country boy.

Hynes at pick 23. He’s got good size, uses the ball well and a very solid kick. Can play a number or roles I feel at AFL level.

With the sweetner pick from splitting pick 3 take the best tall kpd. Kick the midfield picks down the road for a year. We will still have a top 5 pick next year plus hopefully the Hawks F1 if we win trade week. There will be good midfield options next year too.

Split pick 3 : Toby Travaglia
Pick 11-14: Joe Berry
Pick 23: Cooper Hynes
Pick 25-35(from pick 3 split) : Mraz or O’Farrell
Academy: Champion

After Champion I’d like us to trade back in and take one of the players that may be late in the draft such as Barrat, Hamish Davis, Artemis, Gerryen, Zac Johnson or someone else that slides. How the club does that I’m not sure but it would be a good thing there’s going to be value there.

This draft it’s quite deep the at the bottom of the draft but perhaps lacking the real top end quality in the first few picks.
Maybe trade out BWilliams might get us that later pick?

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Think father time has caught up to Cripps, one more season will be painful.

On the 3 for 6 and 20 idea, the big problem with this is we are basically trading down to get baker. As much as I like TT, I think we need a genuine mid..

I'm fine with any of draper, jagga, lalor or fos (I know there is debate on him as a mid, but he has so much upside).

Id much prefer we try and upgrade the brass pick to get TT

I really can't understand why we are chasing baker or graham. Hopefully they don't pick us..

Was thinking the same.

3 for 6 and 20 is ok ish until pick 20 gets sent for Baker.

Then we downgraded a top 3 pick for a Baker?
 
Dunno what the obsession is with getting guys like Carroll and dev in. We need to churn the fat on our list and get more youth in, some will hit and some won't, but these handy downs from other clubs is wasting time on known quantities.

If we bring in an abundance of these types we're just striving for long term mediocrity (stkilda areas of list management).

Ps. I'm not against bringing in young players from oppo clubs , but it has to be for kids with untapped potential who havent quite hit yet for whatever reasons (ala buss this year was a good candidate given his non exposure at afl level)

So what is your views on the hand me downs Hawthorn has added to its list recently?
 
Maybe trade out BWilliams might get us that later pick?

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We cant go into next year with Flynn as our only ruckman. Id rather chance Bailey going it alone than Flynn.

Cant trade Bailey unless we get in another ruckman who can play as the main ruck for most of the year, in the case Flynn is injured or shit
 
Gross is an interesting one I think he’s well under the radar but never really considered him an Eagles pick?
Hugely under the radar. Hard as nails, bursts from the pack, wins his own footy. Sound familiar? Which is why he probably hasn’t been on our radar given we just drafted a far better version of that type of player with more strings to his bow. My knock on him is his kicking. He’s such a bull at a gate that I think a lot of it is composure, which I’d hope can be trained.

I wouldn’t take him with a Barrass pick but if he slides until after the KPFs in the first round and is available at 23 he’d need to seriously be considered. There’s a lot to work with and he’ll bring effort every week of the season, he only has one gear.
 
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After yesterday's disaster, here's my list culling;

Squad:
Allen 25
Yeo 30
Mcgovern 32
Waterman 26
Reid 19
Kelly 30
Duggan 27
Hough 21
Ginbey 20
J.Williams 21
B.Williams 24
Hunt 29
Hewett 20
Maric 20
H.Edwards 23
Long 20
Cole 27
Trew 22
Petrucelle 25
Culley 21
Chesser 21
Dewar 20
Hutchinson 23
Brockman 22
Johnston 19
Bazzo 21
Flynn 27
Jameison 24
Hall 19
A.Reid 19
Rawlinson 19
Baker 20
Livingstone 19

Barass and Darling 3 way trade
Melb= 12 + 29 + DARLING
WCE= 7 + 44
HAWKS= BARASS + SALARY

ADELAIDE= 3 + BARNETT
WCE= 4 + 27

FREO= RYAN + SALARY
WCE= KNOBEL/REIDY + 26

Draft hand:
4, 7, 23, 26, 27, 44, 59

BARASS - TRADE
DARLING - TRADE
RYAN - TRADE
BARNETT - TRADE
CRIPPS - RETIRE
GAFF - RETIRE
SHEED - RETIRE
L.EDWARDS- RETIRE
JONES - DELIST
WITHERDEN - DELIST
ROTHAM - DELIST
BURGIEL- DELIST

4- FOS hopefully
7- lalor/travaglia/berry
23- hynes/oliver or trade for Liam.Baker
26- not sure yet
27- not sure yet
44- C.Dennis
59- Urquhart
 
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