List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  29

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  25

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[CountryLad]

Travaglia vs Berry will be an outstanding battle if that’s the match up. Both will have to be very accountable.

Hopefully Joe can get going this week, didn’t watch his game last week but very quiet on the stats sheet.

 

[eaglevision]

Hopefully Joe can get going this week, didn’t watch his game last week but very quiet on the stats sheet.

Looks like there’s no live stream. Lalor, Smillie etc games are fine.

 

[shooshka]

If i was them I’d trade pick 5 for future picks and then start the negotiations with the Tigers.

Getting a bit sick of reading everywhere how the Tigers are going to have picks 1,5,9,10,13,17…………

It’s like all there players come with a 40% surcharge

Why would the Suns trade pick 5?

Lombard looks likely to go after that point (or at worst to Adelaide or us - which could be negotiated via a trade up for a small premium). Surely they will want to get 2x top-10 talents in the door (especially seeing as the academy points rort is still alive for one more season)?

I assume the 2025 rules and points table will be available before trade week, and that may change things, but as it sits I would have thought GC would want to hold on to #5 at all costs unless an A grader was available (Rioli is not an A grader).


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[CountryLad]

Why would the Suns trade pick 5?

Lombard looks likely to go after that point (or at worst to Adelaide or us - which could be negotiated via a trade up for a small premium). Surely they will want to get 2x top-10 talents in the door (especially seeing as the academy points rort is still alive for one more season)?

I assume the 2025 rules and points table will be available before trade week, and that may change things, but as it sits I would have thought GC would want to hold on to #5 at all costs unless an A grader was available (Rioli is not an A grader).


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Good points however i was suggesting to trade the pick so it was off the table as no doubt while it is there the Tigers will be eyeing it off. They could easily trade with Nth or the Eagles for a top pick next year. I don’t really see a rush for them to bring more top end talent in they have plenty to get games into currently.

They can secure that pick and move it into 2025 as they have plenty of points ready for a Lombard bid. Do they really need another VIC midfielder this year in behind what they already have on there list plus Lombard. A player that probably gets poached in three years time due to homesickness and not getting opportunity.

It will be an interesting watch i just hope they value that pick as they have a history of overpaying and generally it’s to the benefit of the big Vic clubs. OF course there was the Freo trade of pick 2 that landed Bradshaw.

 

[TOA.]

One option that is it not spoken about is just walking Baker through the PSD. We have leverage there. Say its either a second rounder or we walk him in for free.

I know its not used much but we need to be more cut through. Part of the reason our list is in this state is RoB was way too soft in dealing with players and other clubs. Being the good guys gets us nowhere. We need to be more like the Cats and Swans - pricks to deal with.

 

[bzparkes]

One option that is it not spoken about is just walking Baker through the PSD. We have leverage there. Say its either a second rounder or we walk him in for free.

You reckon Richmond won't just pick him up again?

 

[Mattman93]

Lalor doing nothing so far to falsify* my opinion* that he'd be worth pick 3.

Wouldn't hate Ough either.

Unwin loves a turnover.

 

[Peptide Pig]

Lukosious wants to move back to SA, Crom are the obvious choice but I was wondering how Port could get it done.

Schofield coached there so would have some existing relationships with players.

I’ve always thought Powell-Pepper would be a good fit for us. Was contracted until end of 2025, coming off an ACL, has been played out of position and dropped previously.

He’s got the hardness that people like about Liam Baker

7

Liam Baker

Age

26

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

D/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

MG

222.2

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

MG

191.9

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

MG

224.2

4star

but he’s 15cm taller and 25kg bigger. Could be a genuine enforcer for us and rotate mid/fwd with Hewett/Harley/TK.

Wouldn’t want to give up picks for him but if Port needed to free up cap space it could’ve been an interesting discussion.

Anyway, turns out he just signed on for another 4 years. Never mind….

On to Flyin Ryan. Given he’s been left out of the side for ‘personal reasons’ I don’t want to be harsh. However, his attitude and workrate have been poor on field lately and his output has been down. He’s now had significant injuries which do not go well with his age, questionable training standards and the explosive type of player he is.

Port come to mind again as they could partner him with his old mate Willie. They would need to acquire something better than current pick 32 to get it done (maybe an early 20s pick as part of the Houston trade?)

The other team that has been linked is GC. They have plenty of picks to get it done. Not sure Flyin would want to move over the other side of the country though. Freo is potentially the best fit and means he can stay local but they have other trade priorities.

If a pick was acquired for him that essentially ended up as a straight swap for Baker I would be okay with it given we have a few small forwards and I am not confident on Flyin’s output going forward.

I could see him being the type of guy we look at in 2 years time having no value and thinking “why didn’t we trade him when he had currency?” like we have asked in recent years about some of our other aging stars.

 

[Lia]

You reckon Richmond won't just pick him up again?

Oh well.

 

[TOA.]

You reckon Richmond won't just pick him up again?

Nope - you being serious? If they did then all fool them and no skin off our nose.

I guess North could take him if they want to have someone on a 4 year deal on good money that doesnt want to be in the state let alone club.

 

[bzparkes]

Nope - you being serious? If they did then all fool them and no skin off our nose.

I guess North could take him if they want to have someone on a 4 year deal on good money that doesnt want to be in the state let alone club.

I am serious.

Baker wouldn't go through the PSD. If a deal with WCE couldn't be done, he'd just go to Freo, or sign on an extra year to get to FA.

 

[AsterixTheGaul]

So the talk of Waterman to the Dees is still doing the rounds in Melbourne. They really need a forward and Jake would be a plug in play option.

Let us put emotion out the way and look at what trading Waterman and Barrass might look like.

Waterman would be worth pick 7 which depending on Battle might turn into 8. That said, Ralph and Clarke of HUN variety on Friday reported that the Battle offer is likely to be $800k to $850k meaning it would only get Saints band 2 as band 1 now needs to be at least $900k

The Herald Sun understands that any free agency contracts would need to hit at least $900,000 per season to trigger first-round compensation after two significant pay rises for players in the past 12 months.​

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-contract-news-compensation-fight-brewing-in-st-kildas-final-contract-pitch-to-josh-battle/news-story/225f3cda2a10ffc40653558398a25a60

For this analysis, let's assume Saints either keep or get band 2.

Would an in contract Waterman get more than pick 7? Possibly but the sweetener would be something like a F3. I expect Dees would want to give up a F1 but I would hold firm on a 7.

Hawks and Eagles are reportedly happy with this year's R1 when it was 8 or 9. Now that the pick is likely to be a teens, there needs to be a sweetener like the Pies R2 or a F2. For the sake of the analysis, lets assume Hawks win in finals week 1 and lose in week 2 meaning they finish 6th or pick 13. I will hold the proposal that WCE_phil put on the table of Barrass plus 23 for 13 and Hawks F2

I like the concept of WCE_phil that we look to turn it into R1 this year and F1 with our F2 going back which means next year looks like a slide back of about 6 to 7 places to our pick, so not as dramatic as 1 x R1 sounds.

2 parts to look at.
1. What would our draft hands for the next 2 years look like
2. What does that do to our team in 2025

Draft Hand
Straight out with the 2 trades done, we would hold
2024 - 3, 7, 13, 59
2025 - F1, Hawks F1, F2, F3, Dees F3, F4

I like the concept of trading with Suns to get them currency next year.
Eagles
In 5
Out Hawks F1 WCE F2
No bids for 2 years on Lombard and academy prospects

Adjusted hand
2024 - 3, 5, 7, 13 59
2025 - F1, F3, Dees F3, F4 (so 2 x R3 instead of R2)

Prospects I would like at those picks
3 - Draper or Lalor (and happy to look at sliding back 1 with Crows and picking up Lalor and 27)
5 - FOS or Lindsay
7 - Travaglia or Berry
13 - Shanahan
59 - Champion

(If we also get 27, one of Hynes Oliver O'Farrell or even risk a Mraz given who was already picked and navicular tick off)



2025 Team
Have we weakened the team too much?
I think most posters have accepted we have dropped somewhat but have decent cover for Barrass in Dirty Harry. Hoping that Bazzo might step up to play the Lever type role not the FB.

Now the tall forwards is were we have ample coverage.

Maric is looking the goods and could slip in and play the Waterman role, albeit he has not as much form as he turns 21 next year. (BTW - Waterman will be 27 nest year and not likely to be on the list when we next challenge at the pointy end). So decent coverage but obviously not as strong as if Jake was in.

That would leave us with Oscar at CHF, J Williams at FF/ruck and Maric/Darling as 3rd tall.

We would also have the option of Flynn ruck and B Williams KPF as well as Archer Reid developing well in the back half of 2024 as Jack Darling

27

Jack Darling

Age

32

Ht

191cm

Wt

95kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.1

3star

K

7.9

3star

HB

4.2

3star

M

5.0

5star

T

3.0

5star

G

1.9

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

4.3

2star

HB

3.7

3star

M

2.7

3star

T

2.4

3star

G

1.3

5star

D

14.6

4star

K

7.6

3star

HB

7.0

5star

M

6.0

5star

T

4.0

5star

G

1.4

5star

. Note - Jack could play the Waterman role as well.

Our young midfielders now include
Harley
Draper or Lalor
FOS or Lindsay
Travaglia (he may wing or elite HBF playmaker)
Hewett (if he heals)

With older hands in Yeo and Kelly to be there as well as chop out from Duggan and possibly Ginbey.

2025
FB Cole HEdwards Hough
HB Duggan Guv Ginbey
C Hunt HR9 Johnston
HF Long Oscar Cripps
FF Ryan J Williams Dewar
Foll B Williams Yeo Kelly

2028
FB Hough HEdwards Bazzo
HB Ginbey Shanahan Travaglia
C Lindsay HR9 Johnston
HF Hewett Oscar Maric
FF Long JWilliams Dewar
Foll ??? Lindsay Lalor
Int Chesser Hall ArcherR 2025 R1 Hutchinson

So my assessment: I believe Tom is gone so would I also let Waterman go? For the right trade, yes.

 

[TOA.]

I am serious.

Baker wouldn't go through the PSD. If a deal with WCE couldn't be done, he'd just go to Freo, or sign on an extra year to get to FA.

I disagree - its great leverage at the least and has been used many times. In any event, its win-win then. Offer second rounder only - threaten PSD. Tigers either fold or he goes to FA next year and we get him for nothing. If he goes to Freo then we keep our first rounder and second rounder. The only way we can stuff this up and lose is if we offer a first.

 

[stallon]

I am serious.

Baker wouldn't go through the PSD. If a deal with WCE couldn't be done, he'd just go to Freo, or sign on an extra year to get to FA.

Then Richmond could get band 2 or 3 compo for him which will be around 23(our 2nd pick) anyway lol

 

[Happy Mastenator]

So the talk of Waterman to the Dees is still doing the rounds in Melbourne. They really need a forward and Jake would be a plug in play option.

Let us put emotion out the way and look at what trading Waterman and Barrass might look like.

Waterman would be worth pick 7 which depending on Battle might turn into 8. That said, Ralph and Clarke of HUN variety on Friday reported that the Battle offer is likely to be $800k to $850k meaning it would only get Saints band 2 as band 1 now needs to be at least $900k

The Herald Sun understands that any free agency contracts would need to hit at least $900,000 per season to trigger first-round compensation after two significant pay rises for players in the past 12 months.​

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/afl-contract-news-compensation-fight-brewing-in-st-kildas-final-contract-pitch-to-josh-battle/news-story/225f3cda2a10ffc40653558398a25a60

For this analysis, let's assume Saints either keep or get band 2.

Would an in contract Waterman get more than pick 7? Possibly but the sweetener would be something like a F3. I expect Dees would want to give up a F1 but I would hold firm on a 7.

Hawks and Eagles are reportedly happy with this year's R1 when it was 8 or 9. Now that the pick is likely to be a teens, there needs to be a sweetener like the Pies R2 or a F2. For the sake of the analysis, lets assume Hawks win in finals week 1 and lose in week 2 meaning they finish 6th or pick 13. I will hold the proposal that WCE_phil put on the table of Barrass plus 23 for 13 and Hawks F2

I like the concept of WCE_phil that we look to turn it into R1 this year and F1 with our F2 going back which means next year looks like a slide back of about 6 to 7 places to our pick, so not as dramatic as 1 x R1 sounds.

2 parts to look at.
1. What would our draft hands for the next 2 years look like
2. What does that do to our team in 2025

Draft Hand
Straight out with the 2 trades done, we would hold
2024 - 3, 7, 13, 59
2025 - F1, Hawks F1, F2, F3, Dees F3, F4

I like the concept of trading with Suns to get them currency next year.
Eagles
In 5
Out Hawks F1 WCE F2
No bids for 2 years on Lombard and academy prospects

Adjusted hand
2024 - 3, 5, 7, 13 59
2025 - F1, F3, Dees F3, F4 (so 2 x R3 instead of R2)

Prospects I would like at those picks
3 - Draper or Lalor (and happy to look at sliding back 1 with Crows and picking up Lalor and 27)
5 - FOS or Lindsay
7 - Travaglia or Berry
13 - Shanahan
59 - Champion

(If we also get 27, one of Hynes Oliver O'Farrell or even risk a Mraz given who was already picked and navicular tick off)



2025 Team
Have we weakened the team too much?
I think most posters have accepted we have dropped somewhat but have decent cover for Barrass in Dirty Harry. Hoping that Bazzo might step up to play the Lever type role not the FB.

Now the tall forwards is were we have ample coverage.

Maric is looking the goods and could slip in and play the Waterman role, albeit he has not as much form as he turns 21 next year. (BTW - Waterman will be 27 nest year and not likely to be on the list when we next challenge at the pointy end). So decent coverage but obviously not as strong as if Jake was in.

That would leave us with Oscar at CHF, J Williams at FF/ruck and Maric/Darling as 3rd tall.

We would also have the option of Flynn ruck and B Williams KPF as well as Archer Reid developing well in the back half of 2024 as Jack Darling. Note - Jack could play the Waterman role as well.

Our young midfielders now include
Harley
Draper or Lalor
FOS or Lindsay
Travaglia (he may wing or elite HBF playmaker)
Hewett (if he heals)

With older hands in Yeo and Kelly to be there as well as chop out from Duggan and possibly Ginbey.

2025
FB Cole HEdwards Hough
HB Duggan Guv Ginbey
C Hunt HR9 Johnston
HF Long Oscar Cripps
FF Ryan J Williams Dewar
Foll B Williams Yeo Kelly

2028
FB Hough HEdwards Bazzo
HB Ginbey Shanahan Travaglia
C Lindsay HR9 Johnston
HF Hewett Oscar Maric
FF Long JWilliams Dewar
Foll ??? Lindsay Lalor
Int Chesser Hall ArcherR 2025 R1 Hutchinson

So my assessment: I believe Tom is gone so would I also let Waterman go? For the right trade, yes.

Not going into all of that, but saints a real chance to knock over the blues this weekend. Would see Melbournes pick at 6 and before any battle compo. Would take in a heartbeat for waterman.

 

[stallon]

I like the concept of trading with Suns to get them currency next year.
Eagles
In 5
Out Hawks F1 WCE F2
No bids for 2 years on Lombard and academy prospects

Do you think GC would take what is likely a pick in the teens and a pick in the mid 20s for pick 5?

2025
FB Cole HEdwards Hough
HB Duggan Guv Ginbey
C Hunt HR9 Johnston
HF Long Oscar Cripps
FF Ryan J Williams Dewar
Foll B Williams Yeo Kelly

2028
FB Hough HEdwards Bazzo
HB Ginbey Shanahan Travaglia
C Lindsay HR9 Johnston
HF Hewett Oscar Maric
FF Long JWilliams Dewar
Foll ??? Lindsay Lalor
Int Chesser Hall ArcherR 2025 R1 Hutchinson

So my assessment: I believe Tom is gone so would I also let Waterman go? For the right trade, yes.

Shanahan as a KPD? Is that where you think he ends up? Would you be drafting him as a KPD?

 

[ArdentEagle]

Trading Waterman is total madness imo. Total madness.

 

[stallon]

Trading Waterman is total madness imo. Total madness.

If we could get Melbournes 1st + change itd be good business

 

[random260]

I really don't know why we aren't looking at shilling Oscar for a top 3 pick as opposed to waterman for top 7 pick

 

[new breed]

Waterman is the heart and soul of the club ...don't do it !!

 

[Bleedblueandgold]

Trading Waterman is total madness imo. Total madness.

It will depend on Jake's interest in moving.
If he requests a trade or asks us the question, then we will probably negotiate at least and see whether it's beneficial for us. Any offer would probably need to be overs for us to listen since Waterman doesn't strictly want out and we wanna keep him.

 

[stallon]

I really don't know why we aren't looking at shilling Oscar for a top 3 pick as opposed to waterman for top 7 pick

We arent kicking Waterman out, hes looking for more money and because of that he has interest from other clubs.

Allen is worth a lot more in a trade so clubs will obviously look to get Waterman first

 

[ziad]

It will depend on Jake's interest in moving.
If he requests a trade or asks us the question, then we will probably negotiate at least and see whether it's beneficial for us. Any offer would probably need to be overs for us to listen since Waterman doesn't strictly want out and we wanna keep him.

Pick 6 is a win of us (can't quite believe its possible though). Heart and sole is now back to No 9 - life goes on.

 

[Barrybran]

Trading Waterman is total madness imo. Total madness.

On face value, it is madness, but it makes sense. It leaves us playing four talls at any one time - two forward, one ruck, one bench - with decent reserves coming through. I'm torn about this one as Waterman is the kind of guy we should keep given his patience playing behind JK, JD and OA for years, getting his shot, overcoming illnesses and coming back with a bang. He arguably will still be around the next time we are contending for a flag as well. Realistically though, he's standing in someone's way by that point and he is at the highest trade value he may ever be.

If our KPF stocks were low/bad, it would be a no brainer to keep him. I think we need to be looking to the future on this one but only if we're extracting maximum value.

 

[ArdentEagle]

If we could get Melbournes 1st + change itd be good business

Don't agree....Apart from what he's done on the field this year, he is a heart and soul player, leading work rate on the field, showing the kids how it's done on the track and excellent clubman.