Preview R20: Changes vs. Hawthorn

[huludicidal]

I wonder why today when this has been pointed out many times…

Someone outside the cartel dared to go there

 

[Vader]

I don't think there's much point reading too much into what Nicks says. He's an idiot that makes nonsensical decisions.

You can't make sense of decisions that aren't themselves made with sense

Just because you disagree with the decisions does not mean that they don't make sense. You have an extremely blinkered perspective.

 

[cmndstab]

Not everyone is a Max or a Soligo, I can appreciate that.

Curtin just seems a long way from the type of footballer Nicks and the AFC prioritise though. I'm not sure he's a good fit here.

He's almost a carbon copy of the guy we made our captain. I think he'll fit in just fine.

 

[bmac84]

Just because you disagree with the decisions does not mean that they don't make sense. You have an extremely blinkered perspective.

A career 36% coaching record suggests otherwise

 

[Scorpus]

Just because you disagree with the decisions does not mean that they don't make sense. You have an extremely blinkered perspective.

The amount of times Nicks actions have directly contradicted what he's said has been covered on this board numerous times

 

[huludicidal]

OK... I'm confused here. On the one hand you're saying that you would have played Curtin, and on the other you're saying that you agree with Jones' selection. There's one vacancy - so who do you pick?

I would’ve replaced Dawson with Curtin. DC has had 45 touches and 4 goals as a mid in the past fortnight. We apparently aren’t bringing in a mid at all to replace our midfield captain this week, even with Crouch and Rankine still not in the side. Strange.

I would’ve replaced Murray with Jones. We don’t need 3 key defenders against the smallest and quickest forward line in the league. Keane and Borlase on Chol and whoever they select out of Gunston and Dear (they likely aren’t picking both, but even if they do, Hinge would go to Gunston anyway). The rest are smalls.

I would’ve replaced Butts with Borlase.

I would’ve replaced Himmelberg with Walker.

I would’ve replaced Smith with Ryan.

 

[huludicidal]

I wonder why today when this has been pointed out many times…

Was the most obvious account cancellation since the coaches votes against North

 

[Vader]

A career 36% coaching record suggests otherwise

He took over when the team was at the absolute nadir, at the very start of a ground-up rebuild. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** what his W/L record is right now.

 

[jackster83]

He took over when the team was at the absolute nadir, at the very start of a ground-up rebuild. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** what his W/L record is right now.

How long are you prepared to give him?

 

[Vader]

I would’ve replaced Dawson with Curtin. DC has had 45 touches and 4 goals as a mid in the past fortnight. We apparently aren’t bringing in a mid at all to replace our midfield captain this week, even with Crouch and Rankine still not in the side. Strange.

I would’ve replaced Murray with Jones. We don’t need 3 key defenders against the smallest and quickest forward line in the league. Keane and Borlase on Chol and whoever they select out of Gunston and Dear (they likely aren’t picking both, but even if they do, Hinge would go to Gunston anyway). The rest are smalls.

I would’ve replaced Butts with Borlase.

I would’ve replaced Himmelberg with Walker.

That's reasonable, on a "horses for courses" basis.

I would’ve replaced Smith with Ryan.

... and no. With 3 forced changes, Walker returning, and a winning team, the selectors were never going to make an additional unforced change. This was never, ever, going to happen.

 

[George Kramer]

He took over when the team was at the absolute nadir, at the very start of a ground-up rebuild. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** what his W/L record is right now.

No he didn’t, he drove them bottom in his first year. No way was our aside bad enough to go 13 straight losses.

And you not giving a **** tells me we should be worried.

 

[George Kramer]

That's reasonable, on a "horses for courses" basis.

... and no. With 3 forced changes, Walker returning, and a winning team, the selectors were never going to make an additional unforced change. This was never, ever, going to happen.

Don’t mean we shouldn’t have made it

 

[bmac84]

He took over when the team was at the absolute nadir, at the very start of a ground-up rebuild. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** what his W/L record is right now.

Who has the "blinkered perspective" now...

 

[Vader]

How long are you prepared to give him?

Rebuilds typically take 7 years, at least, especially when they've been as extensive as ours.

I know that supporters tend to look at things from a fairly blinkered perspective. "I want success NOW!". Clubs realise that the life cycle of a team list is much longer, and it's all about building a team for success in the mid-long term.

 

[Trigger13]

I think I’m done, cya guys, has been enjoyable for 15 years but getting quite sick and tired of the toxic nature of this board. Impossible to have any sort of reasonable debate without people trying to point score. Might be back later, but doubt it.

Stay. You’re an asset to the board.

 

[Vader]

Who has the "blinkered perspective" now...

Do you accept that he took over when the team was at the nadir?
Do you accept that the club did a ground-up rebuild, starting around the same time as his appointment?
Do you accept that we've had one of the youngest and least experienced team lists ever since his appointment?
Do you accept that there's a strong correllation between age/experience and the number of games won?

Put simply, the club has not yet achieved the required conditions to allow Nicks to have a chance of succeeding.

 

[huludicidal]

That's reasonable, on a "horses for courses" basis.

... and no. With 3 forced changes, Walker returning, and a winning team, the selectors were never going to make an additional unforced change. This was never, ever, going to happen.

I realise Smith for Ryan was never going to happen in reality but we were talking about what I would’ve done. Smith shouldn’t have been playing since about Rd 3 IMO based on his horrid form (note: he wasn’t even in my Rd 1 side), so if I was making the changes, he would’ve been out, on the back of two horrible performances against the Saints (he was unequivocally our worst player) and the Bombers (where he was comfortably in our worst 5 who didn’t get injured).

But yes, fully aware Smith for Ryan was never going to happen in reality with the forced changes this week.

Once all of Murray, Dawson, Rankine and Crouch are available for AFL selection in the next fortnight however, I’d like to think Smith is one of the 4 selected this week who makes way (with Borlase, Bond and one of Cook or Murphy the others to be dropped, unless injuries to other players pop up).

It will be interesting to see how Nicks deals with the “can all 3 of Berry, Laird and Crouch co-exist” conundrum now that Berry is a bit more entrenched in the side. Will we see Laird rested? Will Crouch get a gig as the sub initially? Will Laird be moved completely out of the centre bounce mix?

If we see even one clearance situation with all 3 of Berry, Crouch and Laird in there it’s pretty much official confirmation that the lunatics are running the asylum.

 

[AFC979810]

No, it’s not. There is a design that results in a consistent outcome. Tex routinely leads the league in % of ball directed at. I’m not suggesting it’s a bad strategy, given how good he is. But he’s the director and primary focus in the forward group and those playing alongside perform different roles. But you know this and hit caught out courtesy of your need to imply some Fox News thingy. Yes, I googled. I still don’t know where the attempted put down comes from though.

Ha ha - its more the fact that someone posted something positive about FOG learning something from Tex - and you had to make it into a negative.

You have a narrative and you stick to it like glue.

Dangerous? Or factual?

Dangerous.

The more you get out in the world the more you realize that positions of power aren't always about competence.

 

[spenze]

Rebuilds typically take 7 years, at least, especially when they've been as extensive as ours.

I know that supporters tend to look at things from a fairly blinkered perspective. "I want success NOW!". Clubs realise that the life cycle of a team list is much longer, and it's all about building a team for success in the mid-long term.

What?

Our rebuild hasn’t been extensive and the club said it was over, they were embracing finals. That is on Nicks

 

[spenze]

Also why are there toys all over this page…?

 

[AFC979810]

He took over when the team was at the absolute nadir, at the very start of a ground-up rebuild. Quite frankly, I don't give a flying **** what his W/L record is right now.

No concerns about sitting 14th and going 7-10-1 in a year the coach said he had the list and finals was an expectation?

 

[Vader]

What?

Our rebuild hasn’t been extensive and the club said it was over, they were embracing finals. That is on Nicks

Our rebuild hasn't been extensive? What planet are you on?

 

[Vader]

No concerns about sitting 14th and going 7-10-1 in a year the coach said he had the list and finals was an expectation?

Let's see where we end up.

There are quite a few reasons why the 2024 season hasn't turned out the way we hoped/expected, many of which have been outside Nicks' control.

 

[Scorpus]

The evidence suggests experience actually makes us worse under Nicks

2020 - 13th most experience (57.8 average games played) - 3 wins (18th)
2021 - 16th (54.2) - 7 wins (15th)
2022 - 18th (45.6) - 8 wins (14th)
2023 - 17th (51.7) - 11 wins (10th)
2024 - 15th (60.2) - 7 wins so far (14th so far)

Nicks two best seasons are the two with the least experience on the list

 

[MRB37]

That game plan didn’t get us into the finals last year and we probably had an easier draw.

So he spent an off-season and pre-season reverting back to a gameplan that took us back to 14th on the ladder like the last time he tried it.