Autopsy Roast & toast vs Suns & changes for West Coast round 8

[Tony Stark]

What is noticeable are our token faux "desperate" pressure efforts, so essentially intentionally taking ourselves out of play by throwing ourselves at opposition players sometimes horizontally to the ground and then just sitting back with a look saying "well I tried". We seem to have lost composure in every single facet of the game.

To me - aside from the appalling disposal whether it's to a team mate or shooting at goal - the main thing is the complete lack of pressure on the opposition. And not just forward line pressure, but all over the ground. Since the start of the 2021 season, we have displayed an innate ability to not man up at any stage when the opposition have the ball. No chasing, no tackling, just lazy disinterested players 'guarding space'.

Pity nobody's looked after the space between our football department's ears since the last flag.

Hat

 

[Noidnadroj]

There's no in-between at this club, we either dominate or we're completely s**t.

You mean except 2021 and 2022 when we finished 12th and then 7th …..


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[Noidnadroj]

s**t, but we'd reap the rewards of an elite midfielder for 15 years. Now we are just s**t with no reward.

Yeah, because you’re guaranteed to get an elite midfielder with a couple of good draft picks …. Dow, Phillips, Thomas, Ellis, Petreski-Seton, Settlefield…. I’ll name 50 more dud midfielders from the last 10 x drafts taken top-20 if you like?


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[Grechy]

His skills aren't the problem. His issue is that he doesn't attack the ball in the air. He's aerially soft (if that's a thing).

So basically he's a worse version of Chol. I wonder how many clubs would have Ben Miller in their best 22?

 

[fargothegreat]

So basically he's a worse version of Chol. I wonder how many clubs would have Ben Miller in their best 22?

Chol is very lazy. Was dominated by our talls yesterday.

 

[TiggerMan22]

The question has to be 100% asked around the recruiting team for example. We from 2011 to 2015 we have only 2 of the first round picks on the list (Vlas and Rioli). If you look at the drafting during that time we have a high end talent hole in the 26 - 30 age range of home grown talent. We also have a large hole in the 50 - 100 game range as well which is something we should look at fixing.

What else happened at that time. Something related to expansion clubs perhaps?

Those drafts were about as compromised as it gets. Not only did you have half the draft going to GC and GWS but you had 17 year olds and guys like Hogan being pulled out before the draft on top of that.

By the time that was over we were a top 8 team so didn't get access to the top talent through that way either. We literally had no access to any top end talent from 2010 onwards.

 

[tora tora tora]

If i read “perhaps three flags papered over the cracks of [insert normal frother response ie. recruiting or player development here]” I’m going to scream.

17 other clubs would love to “paper over the cracks” with three flags. Get a grip.

From 2021 I was hoping that we would be right in the mix every year.. like Geelong.. I had a cats supporting friend who hated the fact that they were making GF but not winning. He passed before they won the flag last year.
I was hoping we could be like our team pre flags and at least win a lot of games and be up there.
At this stage I would take a repeat of last 2022
As others have said, Our game plan looks terrible in places, I hope we can change it.
It looked like we recruited to have a crack but a few big injuries, good young footballers from late last year not being able to continue the momentum.
Older players Dusty, Cotch ageing fast.

 

[Dr Tigris]

Waited a day. Lost the same way. Kick straight and game is 50:50. Oppo kicks like us an we in. brain farts.

But some lovely stuff dished up. I am confused and dejected. Long year ahead.

 

[Noidnadroj]

You need decent 25-28 year-olds to shepherd those young players through until about the age of 23-24. Right now our player list is a donut - almost all of our best players are under-23 or over-30.
But, yes, the cliff has come.

I’m not sure you have looked at our list… at all:

All these players are currently 23-30:

Bolton
Baker
D Rioli
Vlastuin
Graham
Nankervis
Short
TT
Hopper
Prestia
Lynch
Broad
Balta
Soldo
McIntosh

We’ve got a more than acceptable core of 23-30yo…. the sky is not falling.



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[Waca Jr]

Teams will be lining up to play us on current form

 

[tiger_tough]

So basically he's a worse version of Chol. I wonder how many clubs would have Ben Miller in their best 22?

None.

 

[Karp3_dm]

I actually thought Soldo was decent apart from a few brain fades.. much better than I expected anyway

Actually clunked a few good marks and looked more mobile than last year

 

[want2spoodge_pettifer]

The question has to be 100% asked around the recruiting team for example. We from 2011 to 2015 we have only 2 of the first round picks on the list (Vlas and Rioli). If you look at the drafting during that time we have a high end talent hole in the 26 - 30 age range of home grown talent. We also have a large hole in the 50 - 100 game range as well which is something we should look at fixing.

This looks no different to any other team that has won a succession of flags.

People wanna compare us to Geelong and Sydney but those cases aren’t exactly the same imo. They are always up and about - which is no mean feat. But they also haven’t had a period of complete domination in that time frame (save for Geelong 07-11, which was a long time ago now) the same way we have. Their strategy is to always be amongst the best and wait for their lick of the ice cream. This worked for Geelong last year, but it looks unlikely they’ll go back to back. Even Melbourne, with their mountain of first round picks, excellent free agent pick ups and fit list have struggled to go back to back. It’s not easy to do. We won 3 in 4 years and subsequently lost a lot of players (for next to nothing), a lot of coaching IP (for literally nothing) and generated a bevy of all time greats that have earned the call on when they go.

At the moment our list looks a year too late or a year too soon. That can change. But the fact we won three flags is a credit to the recruitment and coaching staff. I can’t believe people are potting them. It’s almost as if chunks of people in here would rather us have gone down the path of rebuilding in 2019 - which is what would have been required for us to be in a better position now- rather than going on and taking the 2020 flag. I know which I’d rather.

The decisions around Hopper and Taranto aren’t made for 2023. They’re made for half a decade. Once these boys feel ownership of the project, after some key retirements, I think we will see the best of them. Ditto for younger types like Clarke and Sonsie.

Reminds me of the Gramsci quote:

“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

Enjoy the wins this year - Balta’s ongoing improvement, Ryan taking his chance, Young developing. We’re having some wins, they’re just hidden under turgid and confuse football.

 

[Philth]

Waited a day. Lost the same way. Kick straight and game is 50:50. Oppo kicks like us an we in. brain farts.

But some lovely stuff dished up. I am confused and dejected. Long year ahead.

Confused and dejected. Yes. That sums me up.

I did not see this as a danger game, but here we are.

It's been said before that without Lynch and Nank we are in serious trouble. The prophecy was correct.

 

[Dinith]

This looks no different to any other team that has won a succession of flags.

People wanna compare us to Geelong and Sydney but those cases aren’t exactly the same imo. They are always up and about - which is no mean feat. But they also haven’t had a period of complete domination in that time frame (save for Geelong 07-11, which was a long time ago now) the same way we have. Their strategy is to always be amongst the best and wait for their lick of the ice cream. This worked for Geelong last year, but it looks unlikely they’ll go back to back. Even Melbourne, with their mountain of first round picks, excellent free agent pick ups and fit list have struggled to go back to back. It’s not easy to do. We won 3 in 4 years and subsequently lost a lot of players (for next to nothing), a lot of coaching IP (for literally nothing) and generated a bevy of all time greats that have earned the call on when they go.

At the moment our list looks a year too late or a year too soon. That can change. But the fact we won three flags is a credit to the recruitment and coaching staff. I can’t believe people are potting them. It’s almost as if chunks of people in here would rather us have gone down the path of rebuilding in 2019 - which is what would have been required for us to be in a better position now- rather than going on and taking the 2020 flag. I know which I’d rather.

The decisions around Hopper and Taranto aren’t made for 2023. They’re made for half a decade. Once these boys feel ownership of the project, after some key retirements, I think we will see the best of them. Ditto for younger types like Clarke and Sonsie.

Reminds me of the Gramsci quote:

“The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.”

Enjoy the wins this year - Balta’s ongoing improvement, Ryan taking his chance, Young developing. We’re having some wins, they’re just hidden under turgid and confuse football.

ooft I hope you were drinking a fine wine when whipping out some Gramsci

 

[Hoos]

just on our 2 captains…. both haven’t really delivered let’s be honest…

lets just give Baker the gig…has been a true leader throughout…. never fails to lead by example

Of the players who are neither too old or too inexperienced for the role, I think Baker must be the man.

 

[Tiger V]

back to the bad old days , season over by round 6/7

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I definitely have, going to the football the last couple of seasons has felt way more of a chore than the previous 20 odd years. I still go though, but it does feel a bit meh.

Yeah this too.
I don’t even get angry like i did in the old days.
Just feel really chilled and relaxed at games now no matter what.

 

[mauricerioli]

We will lose next week and not win another game for the year, this team is shot. And the scary thing is , from the interviews , the players and coaches have no idea why.

Confidence is gone , and the team has no clue how to build back up again

It’s 2021 all over again.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Miller Out for sure... Bradtke In, Samson 2nd ruck behind Soldo

Grimes has lost all his composure this year.

Kmac has to go, maybe plays a good role in a tope team that can carry him, but offers nothing outside of "he runs all day"

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Yeah this too.
I don’t even get angry like i did in the old days.
Just feel really chilled and relaxed at games now no matter what.

Yesterday half clashed with the kids footy, didn't even think about putting in the effort to get there (granted would have only got there for the second half)

 

[tugga]

What a time to be a Spurs and Richmond supporter.

 

[Tiges1229]

Yeah this too.
I don’t even get angry like i did in the old days.
Just feel really chilled and relaxed at games now no matter what.

Prbly coz you seen three flags in 4 years

 

[Tiges1229]

What a time to be a Spurs and Richmond supporter.

If it helps you i am a Liverpool supporter

 

[beema limapep]

Yeah, because you’re guaranteed to get an elite midfielder with a couple of good draft picks …. Dow, Phillips, Thomas, Ellis, Petreski-Seton, Settlefield…. I’ll name 50 more dud midfielders from the last 10 x drafts taken top-20 if you like?


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If you back our recruiters in on most of their previous decisions including Hopper and Taranto (as you are doing now), you have to be consistent in backing them in to snare a gun player at pick 2 or 3.

Be consistent. Can't have it both ways.