Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[magpies42]

A bad day

But the sky isn’t falling in… just the end of the current cycle

2014-2017 the club was mediocre … but bought in the talent through draft and trade that set up 2018 and the core of the current list

Pies need to do the same now… look at how Geelong had a bad post flag year… then retired a few and drafted well and are now back in top 6 contention

That’s right was not out of the question, and in a way expected. So why the **** do you trade away your first round pick for a mediocre player, and then trade a player (Ginivan) who’s statistically better and younger for nothing!

Lost this match at the trade table, strategy and the players just weren’t interested and haven’t really been for a few weeks. We never had a sustained lack of intent under Buckley.

The players need a rocket not this loving bullshit macrae spouts all the time.

 

[Run n Spread]

Don't think such comments are useful.
Where is your evidence that Fly "has favourites" ?
How do you know that the reason why we did not try to keep Ginni was solely because of his pre GF escapade? (Perhaps not coincidentally by the way, he was invisible in the GF)
Ginni happens to play well against us, (due to an incredibly poor defensive effort from the entire team ) and you believe that this means we will regret losing Ginni for the next decade?
You may turn out to be right, but at this current point in time there isn't any evidence for these claims. Ginnivan's stats for this season are no better than Schultz's.
I am not saying that I believe the deal we made for Schulz was justified. I am just saying that we would not have won tonight, even if Ginnivan had been in our team. Simply because, we would have not been able to feed the ball to him effectively, due to our lack of midfield capabiity atm.

I deleted the comment.
Point is a sober analysis is needed.
Going a fire and brimstone approach won't work.
And forget AFL players thou they're part of it the old style blast spray etc simply doesn't work with the younger generation or anymore.
Besides the comp is that even its a game here or there makes all the difference

 

[loki04]

Reef should be used as a lead up forward similar to what we did with Sean Rusling and Jaidyn Stephenson. He's one of the fastest players from a stand still. We're not utilizing his asset properly.

Does he lead often enough? Seems to be a lost art.

Working players over up and back constantly, a lot of our forwards don't do it enough.

 

[Mollythedolly]

He is hampered but def not in our best this week or since his injury return.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

He had 19 disposals (5th for the team in 75% ToG), 3 clearances (=6th), 26 PA's (4th), 6 tackles (=2nd), 5 intercept possessions (4th), 6 score involvements (3rd), 4 score launches (2nd). Only negative was his disposal efficiency was down. Even contested a ruck contest. Played limited time and clearly below 100% fitness but easily among our best.

 

[JuniorB]

Having watched Fly's presser, I thought there was quite a bit of suppressed anger in his demeanour.
I'd think there will be some harsh words behind closed doors this week.
To me, the only positive today was Big Dan getting through the game, and showing glimpses of what we've been missing

 

[loki04]

The previous two seasons we got threw off the back of an absolute elite defensive set up. We would often lose the clearance differential but the backline repelled the entries and kick started the quick movement forward.

The backline has struggled this year and so have we. Forward line often playing with only 1 or no legit tall.

It’s not our year, player availability has hurt. Like most teams we are a team that needs to be healthy to compete.

Anyone who needs end of season surgery book them in this week and start playing young guys.

Nick Daicos off HB line streaming forwards starting and then finishing the handball chain to deliver inside 50 got us out of jail so many times.

He connected the backline to the forward line and allowed those comebacks to happen when otherwise typically wouldn't.

He whilst is still having a great year as a mid is not as damaging by foot due to role.

 

[Carringbush2010]

It's not just that there has been an interpretation change on holding the ball calls.
Umps are paying HTB very fast now even when players are getting a clean disposal, happened tonight in Q1.
It's curtailed our ability to play tempo like we did through repeat stoppage.

True that, and only further exposes our game plan, and the flaw it it. That being it's not sustainable game in game out all season long, never has been.

We need a reboot not only in the game plan, but player development, trading and drafting.

Earlier on this season, I was convinced that our game plan stacked up when the injuries hit and we had a run on of wins and draws. Now we're getting senior / first 23 picked players back, we've gone backwards. As you've pointed out we can't tempo the game when needed.

 

[IlovethePies]

I thought Reef showed enough today to justify the phrase "just play him". I think he has talent, and he just needs to have the confidence that we are backing him in to show it.
Ask him what role he thinks he can best play, and give him a crack.
I like McInnes and I feel that we need to give him the rest of this season to prove himself.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Fly said “we were on the edge of being losers today”

Nah mate. We were 100% losers today

You know when we became losers? In the second half. We actually weren’t all that bad in the first half. We just couldn’t kick straight and the umps absolutely crucified us.

In the second half? We were putrid.

People who only look at the surface will see that we kicked 9.2 in the second half and think we were better.

Nah.

We had one less scoring shot. We just kicked straighter.

That’s all that changed. We actually defended worse. Hawks kicked 7.8 in the first half. 4 of those were atrocious umpire gifts and many of the behinds were nothing wild sprays that were never going in.

Second half? 13.5 and it was all them. Not the umps.

That’s f**king disgusting.

 

[loki04]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

He had 19 disposals (5th for the team in 75% ToG), 3 clearances (=6th), 26 PA's (4th), 6 tackles (=2nd), 5 intercept possessions (4th), 6 score involvements (3rd), 4 score launches (2nd). Only negative was his disposal efficiency was down. Even contested a ruck contest. Played limited time and clearly below 100% fitness but easily among our best.

Now post his opponents stats. Pendles did not have a great game, he had a couple good plays but overall was not great.
I don't care what the stats say as stats alone don't paint a full picture of his game.

 

[Looney]

Does he lead often enough? Seems to be a lost art.

Working players over up and back constantly, a lot of our forwards don't do it enough.

You can only play the way you were instructed to. Bucks used Stephenson as a lone lead up forward. The team strategy was for the forwards to clear a space for Jaidyn to lead into. The strategy was very successful because of his superior speed off the line. I don't know why Fly doesn't do that with Reef.

 

[loki04]

He had Dear subbed out. Issue was we went in with a punch it mentality assumedly due to the weather, but we had them beaten in the air and the threat was at ground level - where we were massacred.

He wasn't allowed to play his game, Howe is at his best as a marking rebounder.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

You can only play the way you were instructed to. Bucks used Stephenson as a lone lead up forward. The team strategy was for the forwards to clear a space for Jaidyn to lead into. The strategy was very successful because of his superior speed off the line. I don't know why Fly doesn't do that with Reef.

Because Reef isn’t fast?

 

[IlovethePies]

Fly said “we were on the edge of being losers today”

Nah mate. We were 100% losers today

You know when we became losers? In the second half. We actually weren’t all that bad in the first half. We just couldn’t kick straight and the umps absolutely crucified us.

In the second half? We were putrid.

People who only look at the surface will see that we kicked 9.2 in the second half and think we were better.

Nah.

We had one less scoring shot. We just kicked straighter.

That’s all that changed. We actually defended worse. Hawks kicked 7.8 in the first half. 4 of those were atrocious umpire gifts and many of the behinds were nothing wild sprays that were never going in.

Second half? 13.5 and it was all them. Not the umps.

That’s f**king disgusting.

Take your point CoD.
And I agree with your analysis.
But Fly's comment was in itself a very significant shift.
He said publicly we are on the cusp of being losers.
I am sure that the stats you have highlighted will be communicated to the players during the match review.
I think you need to look at the shift in the language as more important. Perhaps Fly did not say exactly what you wanted, but the fact that he made this change in his public commentary indicates that he will be speaking along the same lines as you to the players on Monday.
( I hope)

 

[Run n Spread]

Random thought. From all the bucks talk or flys system.?
Do coaches have too much influence?
It was clear mid way through the second we needed to stop hitting targets in the corridor and needed to adapt to the wet.
Who called it on the ground?

 

[No SPIN]

Spot on Geelong doesn't give them away, they trade them in (Bowes and pick 7 for cap space) and also go after match winning stars in Dangerfield, Cameron, Smith, Thouhey etc.

And yet we have won the same number flags between 2010-2023.

 

[LuckyLee]

Which one?
44 sons or the Grand Final review?

There was more than ONE movie?!! OMG, it’s worse than I thought!


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[IlovethePies]

Random thought. From all the bucks talk or flys system.?
Do coaches have too much influence?
It was clear mid way through the second we needed to stop hitting targets in the corridor and needed to adapt to the wet.
Who called it on the ground?

Fly addressed this issue in the presser. He said that we did not handle the wet conditions well enough. We were still trying to play an open game, when contested ball was king. He mentioned that he addressed this at half time with the group. So yeah, it points to lack of experience and also lack of onfield examples from the experienced players.

 

[No SPIN]

And Adams would have come in handy without Mitchell

You should have lent him your crystal ball so he could have seen Mitchell’s injury woes in 2024.

 

[LuckyLee]

We are past the cross roads.

Our youth is no good. The only two I believe in are Jiath and Allan.

Oh and I said trade Noble and Markov maybe a month ago and was torched. Agree though. But need to cut deeper.

I would retain Howe and possibly Sidey.

Harvey Harrison, too. He has had a great debut season and is a keeper. Has scored regularly and has had many goal assists. The only U22 player on our list better than him is Nick, albeit by a huge margin. I have hopes for DeMattia, Allan, Steene and Smit but that’s all. So our depth of youth is very poor - perhaps worst in the comp.


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[Looney]

Because Reef isn’t fast?

He clocked 2.78 seconds in a 20 meter sprint. Usain Bolt's 20 meter time was 2.87 when he set the world record time of 9.69

 

[barrackers]

Fly said “we were on the edge of being losers today”

Nah mate. We were 100% losers today

You know when we became losers? In the second half. We actually weren’t all that bad in the first half. We just couldn’t kick straight and the umps absolutely crucified us.

In the second half? We were putrid.

People who only look at the surface will see that we kicked 9.2 in the second half and think we were better.

Nah.

We had one less scoring shot. We just kicked straighter.

That’s all that changed. We actually defended worse. Hawks kicked 7.8 in the first half. 4 of those were atrocious umpire gifts and many of the behinds were nothing wild sprays that were never going in.

Second half? 13.5 and it was all them. Not the umps.

That’s f**king disgusting.

I get your point, but the last 5 minutes were clearly junk time and we’d we conceded 8.5 in the second half before those 5 minutes.

 

[No SPIN]

Having watched Fly's presser, I thought there was quite a bit of suppressed anger in his demeanour.
I'd think there will be some harsh words behind closed doors this week.
To me, the only positive today was Big Dan getting through the game, and showing glimpses of what we've been missing

He was seething below that calm exterior.

 

[mumblingpie]

Seasons only going to get worse from here and having one of the oldest teams in the comp is just pushing the likelihood of a big rebuild this offseason. I love Pendles and Siddy but I don’t think the contract extensions would have been offered had we known we’d be in this situation. Howe, Mitchell, Sidebottom, Markov, Ash and possibly Pendles might need to retire or be moved on. I just bloody hope they do not stuff up again and trade anymore 1st rounders yikes

 

[LuckyLee]

You're talking as though he's a 15 year vet.

He is currently a good player. He was a good player for us in 2022. I agree he has a lot of potential, but dunno about destined to be very good.

Happy for you to bookmark this and bump it in 2035 saying I was wrong but atm it's just conjecture. He could be a hall of famer, or could be delisted in a gee years. Ya never know.


One thing is for sure - he'll always be a Collingwood Premiership Player

Yes, a Premiership player who went to the races the night before the Prelim Final and then had about three touches and zero impact on the GF result. He should give his medal to Tay Adams out of sheer embarrassment.


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