Autopsy Round 5, 2024 - Suns destroy hopeless Hawks

[Newmo89]

Six Points: Gold Coast Suns Round 5, 2024 by Talking Hawks

Lauren and Tim discuss the main takeaways from the 53 point loss to the Gold Coast Suns including tackling trepidation, development of our squad and Finn's forward foray. Player sponsor experience: https://bit.ly/3x7frj6 Give TH a 5-star review! Subscribe on YouTube...

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Talking Hawks Six Points recap of Round 5

 

[barbster]

And if he has a stinker?

Phillips didn’t look out of place in the pre season games and that was against quality opposition with the ball continuously coming in, he now has 2 months of training with our senior players. If he does have a stinker, we could sub him off for possibly someone like Serong, who also deserves a game.
If we aren’t going to debut Phillips this week against the bottom side, then when? He has already achieved all he can as a VFL player.

 

[Newmo89]

Phillips didn’t look out of place in the pre season games and that was against quality opposition with the ball continuously coming in, he now has 2 months of training with our senior players. If he does have a stinker, we could sub him off for possibly someone for Serong who also deserves a game. If we aren’t going to debut Phillips this week against the bottom side, then when? He has already achieved all he can as a VFL player.

Phillips is currently out injured - didn't play on the weekend for Box Hill and has been in the rehab group at training the past fortnight.

 

[barbster]

Phillips is currently out injured - didn't play on the weekend for Box Hill and has been in the rehab group at training the past fortnight.

What’s he done? Didn’t see him listed on the medical report.

 

[CHUBBSS]

The more I hear the saying it’s never as bad or as good as it seems the more I realise it is as bad as it seems but that’s the good fortune in itself.

If we had of come out of the blocks and kicked perfectly against the bombers, kicked straight against the pies we would likely 2/3 and papered over all the cracks. The losses now make it painfully obvious what the immediate issues are and long term to. We need time and a shit load more talent.

Sam will have his work cut out for him because it’s about to get a lot rockier, all the problems from coaches to players are about to be put under the microscope and rightfully so. Most organisation go through considerable change in a rebuild on coaches and list management and the way it’s going will be same so the board will need to support Sam or it will be even harder.

After sleeping on it, this was the loss we needed to have. What comes from the trees being shaken will be interesting but I can’t help but think we are coaching to be soft, something just doesn’t sit right here.

Every great hawthorn side starts from the bottom, the players will have to realise this and put in or we are about to embark on a much longer rebuild and lose a few along the way. Nothing wrong with hard times and struggle just how you deal with it.

 

[Bad Boy Beama]

Been a hawk supporter since the late 70's.
There is only word to describe The Hawks and that is "terrible".
Chol is waste of space. Dear is not ready to play in the seniors yet but he at least would have given 100%.
Finn tried really hard and was happy for him, Impey was good as well.
Meek almost halved his position against Witts which was good as Witts is a very good ruckaman, but how can he a ruckman have the most clearances?
Sicily is way off his best, where was our midfield? What has happened to Nash and Duke this year?
The umpiring was not consistent as I would like, how can a playing who is looking in a different direction and walking away be shoved in the back (was unaware) and the umpire say he dived.
This game along with the Demons game should have the Nun from "Game of Thrones" walking behind our team saying Shame, Shame, Shame.

 

[barbster]

Been a hawk supporter since the late 70's.
There is only word to describe The Hawks and that is "terrible".
Chol is waste of space. Dear is not ready to play in the seniors yet but he at least would have given 100%.
Finn tried really hard and was happy for him, Impey was good as well.
Meek almost halved his position against Witts which was good as Witts is a very good ruckaman, but how can he a ruckman have the most clearances?
Sicily is way off his best, where was our midfield? What has happened to Nash and Duke this year?
The umpiring was not a consistent as I would like, how can a playing who is looking in a different direction and walking away be shoved in the back (was unaware) and the umpire say he dived.
This game along with the Demons game should have the Nun from "Game of Thrones" walking behind our team saying Shame, Shame, Shame.

That’s two weeks in a row Chol has been below par, he would want to have a good game this week against an undersized NM defence. Umpiring has been terrible all year, so much for having four umpires.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

That’s two weeks in a row Chol has been below par, he would want to have a good game this week against an undersized NM defence. Umpiring has been terrible all year, so much for having four umpires.

The more umpires you have, the more inconsistent they become.

 

[Geead]

Hoping Sammy & the leaders give the team a big kick up the bum at training this week and fire them up.

When Mac Andrew smashed Ginni in the back there should have been 3 or 4 hawks getting stuck into him, no fire or passion at the moment. Hopefully they can get the boys fired up.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Ive never been one to really judge coaches as it's hard to determine tactics etc etc but from what I'm looking at its not looking good for Mitch

See my review for players

Meek: Actually been impressed the last couple of weeks. Didn't have much hope for him.
Worpel: Always thereabouts but gets caught way to often. Good tryer but has a lot of limitations
Chol: Hope we kept a receipt. Putrid
Ginnivan: Probably realising its a lot harder to crumb in an average team. Has been ok but that's about it
Butler and Hustwaite: Keep getting told they are tearing it up at BHH but I'm not seeing anything special at AFL level.
Ramsden: Looks promising but very raw
Frost: Actually been ok this year tbh but similar to Worpel is very limited
Hardwick/Impey: Good average players who im happy to stick around
Ward/Mackenzie: along with DGB and indictment on our drafting and or development. Would not think they are all Top 10 picks in the slightest.
Newcombe: Good player but won't get much better than what he is now. Already but bodied
D'Ambrosio: Like him as a role player. Great kick
CMac: liked him the last couple of years but has gone backwards this year

Sure I'm missing a couple.

Yes he have injuries but Will Day isn't prime Judd and Lewis isn't Buddy.

At most they may have added a few goals and we still lose by 40 odd against a mid table team at best

I'd love to know when as part of this rebuild we are meant to start winning games.

Im so glad you’re not a talent scout with your assessment here..

 

[mustang]

What worries me most is that whilst these are all potentially above average talents, they are all about as injury prone as you can get and may never get a decent run at it which means that in turn, this side may never get a decent run at it.

Don’t call Lewis injury prone some people don’t like it.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

I think it’s quite simple.

Coach dissatisfied with the effort, players should be, looks like they were on holiday rather than playing footy.

Show time is good, but you need to do the dirty and boring things well, consistently. Team just did not.

Talent isn’t an issue, I think talent is subjective and there’s a lot of ultra talented players not getting the most out of themselves like their Gold Coast counterparts.

Sam has a rule of 24 hours and it is well and truly worth its weight in gold, sulk and overreact, but be patient and ride the bumps, development is not a linear process.

I’m in with no doubt this week will leave some players sore at training, the “bring your mouth guards” type. But it’s needed and from here it is simply the effort in what you want out of yourselves and the team.

There will be changes but I’m sure he’ll back in a few players too who could be suggested as “poor” or not up to it based off this game.

Severe overreaction is laughable.

 

[FB19]

I think everyone knew mate.

Everyone…minus 1.

 

[Yardie]

OK.. we beg to differ... I'm cool with that... I will still stand by what I have said... Let's wait until we have a cracker and see how many complain of him not quite being there...

I can't see him being a catalyst of a successful side... I'd love to be proven wrong... But in the games I have seen, I am yet to be conviced he will be able to do it. at least consistently.

So you've only watched one game this season.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Not enough talk about Finn's bag of goals

 

[FB19]

Not enough talk about Finn's bag of goals

Agreed if he can tag the dominant half back, but get to good spots and provide a marking option and defensive pressure, that seems the most likely way he makes a career given how the game is played now from half back.

 

[Adelaide Hawk]

Every great hawthorn side starts from the bottom, the players will have to realise this and put in or we are about to embark on a much longer rebuild and lose a few along the way. Nothing wrong with hard times and struggle just how you deal with it.

This is true. However, I do feel people are looking at our rise from 2004 and expecting it all to happen again. When we won the flag in 2008, it had been 17 years since our golden era 1983-1991. By the time we reached the draft in 2004, we had leaders such as Crawford, Mitchell, Hodge, etc. playing vital roles in our development. There were 16 teams then.

Through some remarkable drafting, the likes of Roughead, Buddy, Lewis, Rioli, Birchall, just to name a few, our list became strong. The 2008 flag was wonderful, but in reality, it took 9 years to get from 2004 to our three-peat. Then in 2010 and 2011, along came Gold Coast and GWS making it an 18-team competition.

Any club floundering near or at the bottom back then were limited in their capacity to build as many talented juniors went to the fledgling clubs. Richmond stuffed up the 2004 draft but eventually won some flags many years later, Carlton have still gone nowhere, although they have improved the past couple of years. Even though they had good draft picks, the talent wasn't there to scoop the pool as we did in 2004.

We find ourselves in a situation where a 19th team will be introduced in 2028, that's only 4 years away, and the possibility of a 20th team shortly after that. We are back to where we were in 2004, but also lacking the on-field leadership skills of Crawford, Mitchell and Hodge.

Unless we do some amazing recruitment and drafting in the next few seasons, we will be left floundering near the bottom of the table for some time to come. Sorry to be a downer, but I am a realist, not a dreamer. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I honestly feel rebuilding is going to be a lot harder than it was in 2004.

 

[mustang]

The more I hear the saying it’s never as bad or as good as it seems the more I realise it is as bad as it seems but that’s the good fortune in itself.

If we had of come out of the blocks and kicked perfectly against the bombers, kicked straight against the pies we would likely 2/3 and papered over all the cracks. The losses now make it painfully obvious what the immediate issues are and long term to. We need time and a s**t load more talent.

Sam will have his work cut out for him because it’s about to get a lot rockier, all the problems from coaches to players are about to be put under the microscope and rightfully so. Most organisation go through considerable change in a rebuild on coaches and list management and the way it’s going will be same so the board will need to support Sam or it will be even harder.

After sleeping on it, this was the loss we needed to have. What comes from the trees being shaken will be interesting but I can’t help but think we are coaching to be soft, something just doesn’t sit right here.

Every great hawthorn side starts from the bottom, the players will have to realise this and put in or we are about to embark on a much longer rebuild and lose a few along the way. Nothing wrong with hard times and struggle just how you deal with it.

Yep agree

 

[mustang]

Hoping Sammy & the leaders give the team a big kick up the bum at training this week and fire them up.

When Mac Andrew smashed Ginni in the back there should have been 3 or 4 hawks getting stuck into him, no fire or passion at the moment. Hopefully they can get the boys fired up.

We don’t really have those hawks that are unsociable anymore and feel we need to draft this type of player.

 

[mustang]

Not enough talk about Finn's bag of goals

He was our best forward on the night.

 

[peetoo]

This is true. However, I do feel people are looking at our rise from 2004 and expecting it all to happen again. When we won the flag in 2008, it had been 17 years since our golden era 1983-1991. By the time we reached the draft in 2004, we had leaders such as Crawford, Mitchell, Hodge, etc. playing vital roles in our development. There were 16 teams then.

Through some remarkable drafting, the likes of Roughead, Buddy, Lewis, Rioli, Birchall, just to name a few, our list became strong. The 2008 flag was wonderful, but in reality, it took 9 years to get from 2004 to our three-peat. Then in 2010 and 2011, along came Gold Coast and GWS making it an 18-team competition.

Any club floundering near or at the bottom back then were limited in their capacity to build as many talented juniors went to the fledgling clubs. Richmond stuffed up the 2004 draft but eventually won some flags many years later, Carlton have still gone nowhere, although they have improved the past couple of years. Even though they had good draft picks, the talent wasn't there to scoop the pool as we did in 2004.

We find ourselves in a situation where a 19th team will be introduced in 2028, that's only 4 years away, and the possibility of a 20th team shortly after that. We are back to where we were in 2004, but also lacking the on-field leadership skills of Crawford, Mitchell and Hodge.

Unless we do some amazing recruitment and drafting in the next few seasons, we will be left floundering near the bottom of the table for some time to come. Sorry to be a downer, but I am a realist, not a dreamer. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I honestly feel rebuilding is going to be a lot harder than it was in 2004.

There were plenty of similar opinions of the hawks 2005-2006

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

We have no choice with Scrim.
Who are you gonna play there instead? Serong?

Come on mate Phillips should be walking into the current backline. We are robbing Peter to pay Paul having Scrimshaw and Weddle playing bigger than they should be. We have to utilise them were they can have maximum impact on games. If We don't think Phillips is ready than we should have kept the powder dry and he stayed at BH as a VFL player. Makes zero sense to me he is purely being used as depth. Sure if Blanck was available to play that makes sense but not now. We need somebody to do a job not be Sam Taylor and I'm fairly sure he would have gone ok on Reid or Walter on Saturday. Both will be good but are still developing right now. We need goals not stem the bleeding because our midfield has turned to cow manure and were trying to protect them. Enough is enough IMO.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Phillips is currently out injured - didn't play on the weekend for Box Hill and has been in the rehab group at training the past fortnight.

That should explain a few things than

 

[TylerDurden]

Come on mate Phillips should be walking into the current backline. We are robbing Peter to pay Paul having Scrimshaw and Weddle playing bigger than they should be. We have to utilise them were they can have maximum impact on games. If We don't think Phillips is ready than we should have kept the powder dry and he stayed at BH as a VFL player. Makes zero sense to me he is purely being used as depth. Sure if Blanck was available to play that makes sense but not now. We need somebody to do a job not be Sam Taylor and I'm fairly sure he would have gone ok on Reid or Walter on Saturday. Both will be good but are still developing right now. We need goals not stem the bleeding because our midfield has turned to cow manure and were trying to protect them. Enough is enough IMO.

Phillips??? Injured. Out for who knows how long.

 

[CHUBBSS]

This is true. However, I do feel people are looking at our rise from 2004 and expecting it all to happen again. When we won the flag in 2008, it had been 17 years since our golden era 1983-1991. By the time we reached the draft in 2004, we had leaders such as Crawford, Mitchell, Hodge, etc. playing vital roles in our development. There were 16 teams then.

Through some remarkable drafting, the likes of Roughead, Buddy, Lewis, Rioli, Birchall, just to name a few, our list became strong. The 2008 flag was wonderful, but in reality, it took 9 years to get from 2004 to our three-peat. Then in 2010 and 2011, along came Gold Coast and GWS making it an 18-team competition.

Any club floundering near or at the bottom back then were limited in their capacity to build as many talented juniors went to the fledgling clubs. Richmond stuffed up the 2004 draft but eventually won some flags many years later, Carlton have still gone nowhere, although they have improved the past couple of years. Even though they had good draft picks, the talent wasn't there to scoop the pool as we did in 2004.

We find ourselves in a situation where a 19th team will be introduced in 2028, that's only 4 years away, and the possibility of a 20th team shortly after that. We are back to where we were in 2004, but also lacking the on-field leadership skills of Crawford, Mitchell and Hodge.

Unless we do some amazing recruitment and drafting in the next few seasons, we will be left floundering near the bottom of the table for some time to come. Sorry to be a downer, but I am a realist, not a dreamer. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I honestly feel rebuilding is going to be a lot harder than it was in 2004.

Oh it’s much harder, game is faster now to so the talent pool shrinks a little more

why the hard questions will be posed because realistically we need 2 years extra development in the midfield to even be consistent, no rebuild is a given but the sooner we realise this lists value the sooner we can have the right strategy long term. If we try buy our way out of this with draft picks it will be ironic hubris. The only way out will be the hard way.

(I see the list average at 20-21) 5 years before seniors but 2 years before being competitive)