Preview R20: Changes vs. Hawthorn

[Vader]

Not everyone is as loyal as Tex though. Gunston and Davis didn't bother sticking around when they copped the same treatment.

Yeah... neither of those left because of a lack of opportunities at AFL level.

Gunston was sent to Centrals in the SANFL mini-draft, and it's hard to think of a worse possible pairing. Gunston was from the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, born with a silver spoon in his mouth, sent to play with the bluest of blue collar teams in the SANFL. No wonder he hated the whole experience. Gunston probably would have stayed under our current system, where our youngsters all play together in our own SANFL team.

Davis was offered a GodFather deal by GWS, and I can't honestly blame him for leaving.

 

[BACCS]

Not everyone is as loyal as Tex though. Gunston and Davis didn't bother sticking around when they copped the same treatment.

Davis got offered 800k as a 21 year old from a new franchise, that’s got nothing to do with how many games he plays as an 18 or 19 year old.

I enjoy posting on this forum, but we also aren’t the most rational bunch of people and tend to see things in very black or white terms, when in reality it’s far more complicated and nuanced than that.

 

[jackster83]

Davis got offered 800k as a 21 year old from a new franchise, that’s got nothing to do with how many games he plays as an 18 or 19 year old.

I enjoy posting on this forum, but we also aren’t the most rational bunch of people and tend to see things in very black or white terms, when in reality it’s far more complicated and nuanced than that.

Not everyone is a Max or a Soligo, I can appreciate that.

Curtin just seems a long way from the type of footballer Nicks and the AFC prioritise though. I'm not sure he's a good fit here.

 

[Hell Boy6669]

It’s nicks’ coaching philosophies that are ruining the club.

As soon as Nicks said a couple
Of years ago that he values hard work and battlers over talent, alarm bells were ringing.

Mail this morning is Curtin is not playing,

Jones Tex and Borlase are the three ins.

 

[Crows I Am]

Or, wait for it, he’s a 197cm player that will be a slower burn than others? It’s nothing earth shattering or requiring conspiracy theories. He’s been voted our best afl listed player two weeks in a row by the coaches, so they’re clearly happy with what they are seeing in a new role.

His work off the ball is what keeps getting mentioned as his major improvement (which has been noticeable all season even to me), they know he’s class with ball in hand.

I would still pick him this week, but I’m also not going to start running with conspiracy theories if he doesn’t.

You have posted multiple times this week that it was a forgone conclusion that Curtin would be named this week and for people to not jump at shadows. Now it is looking like he may not get named and suddenly there is no issue with him being left out and that he might not be ready.

Curtin for Dawson, like for like change. I’ve seen enough again in the sanfl today to believe he’s ready for a stint at afl level in the midfield. Perfect opportunity to get him in.

He had 10 touches, 2 clearances and a goal at half time, you went way too early. Basically just doubled those stats in the 2nd half. He's clearly ready for another stint at AFL level after two good weeks as a midfielder at SANFL level.

That’s fairly standard on this board, Curtin coming in was the most obvious selection since coaches votes came out for our North win

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

Davis got offered 800k as a 21 year old from a new franchise, that’s got nothing to do with how many games he plays as an 18 or 19 year old.

I enjoy posting on this forum, but we also aren’t the most rational bunch of people and tend to see things in very black or white terms, when in reality it’s far more complicated and nuanced than that.

Davis didn't get picked for a single game when Rutten, Bock and Stevens were all available.

Even famously being jettisoned the week after a Rising Star nomination when one returned.

None of those three were at retirement age. Leaving was a no brainer for him. Whether he would have made the same call had we preferred him to Scott Stevens and offered him a first 22 player contract? Unknown

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

As soon as Nicks said a couple
Of years ago that he values hard work and battlers over talent, alarm bells were ringing.

Mail this morning is Curtin is not playing,

Jones Tex and Borlase are the three ins.

Likely to have 4 outs though (assuming Berg out for Tex)... so who is the 4th in.

Going to be the mother of all melts tonight if Curtin is not named & rightly so.

If AFC want to reduce their crowd numbers significantly on Sunday, leaving out Curtin & bringing in someone like McHenry would do the trick.

 

[BACCS]

Not everyone is a Max or a Soligo, I can appreciate that.

Curtin just seems a long way from the type of footballer Nicks and the AFC prioritise though. I'm not sure he's a good fit here.

That’s just complete crap though. I know people don’t like listening to Nicks anymore, but he talks about Curtin and his development almost every single mid week presser. I’ve only ever heard praise of his weapons (ball use) or things they are helping him to improve (off the ball work). He debuted him in a Showdown and are now giving him an extended midfield run at Sanfl level.

What evidence is there that Nicks doesn’t rate his skill set? I remember early days of JUH at the Bulldogs and people thought Bevo didn’t rate him, which clearly isn’t true. Caddy and Walter have played a few afl games this year but have largely looked miles off the level and have been dropped multiple times, does that mean Scott and Hardwick do not rate them?

Many on this board were saying Nicks doesn’t like Dowling either, but since coming in he’s never been subbed out and has got increased responsibility at afl level.

A young tall not getting regular games in his first season or two is nothing new and doesn’t mean the coach thinks he’s shit.

 

[BACCS]

Davis didn't get picked for a single game when Rutten, Bock and Stevens were all available.

Even famously being jettisoned the week after a Rising Star nomination when one returned.

None of those three were at retirement age. Leaving was a no brainer for him. Whether he would have made the same call had we preferred him to Scott Stevens and offered him a first 22 player contract? Unknown

There it is again, seeing things in black and white and dealing in hypotheticals that are impossible to prove, BigFooty posting 101

 

[BACCS]

You have posted multiple times this week that it was a forgone conclusion that Curtin would be named this week and for people to not jump at shadows. Now it is looking like he may not get named and suddenly there is no issue with him being left out and that he might not be ready.

I said I would still pick him as his form has been good, but if you actually read what I wrote, you would understand I’m not going to delve into conspiracy theories if he doesn’t.

 

[Drugs Are Bad Mackay?]

There it is again, seeing things in black and white and dealing in hypotheticals that are impossible to prove, BigFooty posting 101

"He left for money" is seeing things in black and white.

 

[1970crow]

Surely he's worth several picks

Not if he can’t break into our side.

 

[fuic08]

I said I would still pick him as his form has been good, but if you actually read what I wrote, you would understand I’m not going to delve into conspiracy theories if he doesn’t.

"That’s fairly standard on this board, Curtin coming in was the most obvious selection since coaches votes came out for our North win"

I mean...

 

[1970crow]

to

Nicks’ quote in the first didn’t sound like he was a strong chance, I think old mate has misinterpreted those words.

 

[Hell Boy6669]

Likely to have 4 outs though (assuming Berg out for Tex)... so who is the 4th in.

Going to be the mother of all melts tonight if Curtin is not named & rightly so.

If AFC want to reduce their crowd numbers significantly on Sunday, leaving out Curtin & bringing in someone like McHenry would do the trick.

Berg is staying in

 

[jenny61_99]

Dangerous thinking.

Dangerous? Or factual?

 

[BACCS]

"That’s fairly standard on this board, Curtin coming in was the most obvious selection since coaches votes came out for our North win"

I mean...

I think I’m done, cya guys, has been enjoyable for 15 years but getting quite sick and tired of the toxic nature of this board. Impossible to have any sort of reasonable debate without people trying to point score. Might be back later, but doubt it.

 

[fuic08]

I think I’m done, cya guys, has been enjoyable for 15 years but getting quite sick and tired of the toxic nature of this board. Impossible to have any sort of reasonable debate without people trying to point score. Might be back later, but doubt it.

It would be a shame to leave after 15 when this is likely our first interaction. I do enjoy most of your posts as it's good to have input from opposing view points.

Just pointing out an obvious contradiction as I was scrolling through. No offence intended.

 

[huludicidal]

Like it or not, it’s pretty clear that the changes are going to be…

Out:
Dawson, Butts, Murray, Himmelberg

In:
Jones, Borlase, Walker, Worrell


Like everyone else with a pulse, I would’ve played Curtin without hesitation in a dead rubber at home after 45 touches and 4 goals over the past fortnight at SANFL level, with none of Crouch, Dawson, Rankine, Milera, Pedlar, Butts or Murray available, plus Worrell coming off a 10 week injury, plus Smith in horrendous form, plus Murphy providing very little output, plus Cook struggling to consistently impact games but hey, welcome to Nixy’s werld. Not sure why anyone is surprised at this point.

The one thing I would say is that I actually do agree with Jones getting a game, because of the unique makeup of Hawthorn’s team. They just have a ridiculous number of dangerous wing and small forward options, so Jones (or Hamill) needed to come in to play on one of them. Jones on Ginnivan, Bond on Watson and Michalanney on Moore makes the most sense to me with Hamill not in the squad.

Personally I would have brought Worrell back through the SANFL. Why the rush after 10 weeks out?

Personally I would not have selected Smith since about Round 3. He’s consistently in our worst 6 players and is completely devoid of any attributes that contribute to winning.

Curtin now won’t play again this season barring further injury carnage, with the inevitable return of Dawson next week, plus Crouch, Murray and Rankine all back in the next fortnight cementing his place in the SANFL for the remainder of the year.

 

[1970crow]

Thats some movement from your original post.

No, it’s not. There is a design that results in a consistent outcome. Tex routinely leads the league in % of ball directed at. I’m not suggesting it’s a bad strategy, given how good he is. But he’s the director and primary focus in the forward group and those playing alongside perform different roles. But you know this and hit caught out courtesy of your need to imply some Fox News thingy. Yes, I googled. I still don’t know where the attempted put down comes from though.

 

[huludicidal]

I think I’m done, cya guys, has been enjoyable for 15 years but getting quite sick and tired of the toxic nature of this board. Impossible to have any sort of reasonable debate without people trying to point score. Might be back later, but doubt it.

Someone pointed out my blatant hypocrisy, might cancel my account. Cya in 20 mins under a new alias.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Cya in 20 mins under a new alias.

 

[George Kramer]

Someone pointed out my blatant hypocrisy, might cancel my account. Cya in 20 mins under a new alias.

I wonder why today when this has been pointed out many times…

 

[Scorpus]

I don't think there's much point reading too much into what Nicks says. He's an idiot that makes nonsensical decisions.

You can't make sense of decisions that aren't themselves made with sense

 

[Vader]

Like it or not, it’s pretty clear that the changes are going to be…

Out:
Dawson, Butts, Murray, Himmelberg

In:
Jones, Borlase, Walker, Worrell

I wouldn't be too sure about the Berg <-> Worrell change. My guess is that they'll give Berg a go in defence, Butts/Murray (Borlase replaces the other). Walker then replaces Berg in the forward line.

Worrell hasn't played since breaking his arm in R10. A run in the SANFL to gain match fitness would not be a bad thing at all. He's a much better player than Berg, but he probably needs a gallop in the magoos first.

Like everyone else with a pulse, I would’ve played Curtin without hesitation in a dead rubber at home after 45 touches and 4 goals over the past fortnight at SANFL level, with none of Crouch, Dawson, Rankine, Milera, Pedlar, Butts or Murray available, plus Worrell coming off a 10 week injury, plus Smith in horrendous form, plus Murphy providing very little output, plus Cook struggling to consistently impact games but hey, welcome to Nixy’s werld. Not sure why anyone is surprised at this point.

The one thing I would say is that I actually do agree with Jones getting a game, because of the unique makeup of Hawthorn’s team. They just have a ridiculous number of dangerous wing and small forward options, so Jones (or Hamill) needed to come in to play on one of them. Jones on Ginnivan, Bond on Watson and Michalanney on Moore makes the most sense to me with Hamill not in the squad.

OK... I'm confused here. On the one hand you're saying that you would have played Curtin, and on the other you're saying that you agree with Jones' selection. There's one vacancy - so who do you pick?

Personally I would have brought Worrell back through the SANFL. Why the rush after 10 weeks out?

Agreed, and I think that's what will happen.

Personally I would not have selected Smith since about Round 3. He’s consistently in our worst 6 players and is completely devoid of any attributes that contribute to winning.

Fair call - but they were never going to make unforced changes, given that they have 3 forced changes to deal with already.

Curtin now won’t play again this season barring further injury carnage, with the inevitable return of Dawson next week, plus Crouch, Murray and Rankine all back in the next fortnight cementing his place in the SANFL for the remainder of the year.

Let's wait and see...