Autopsy Roast & toast vs Saints, changes for Cotchin’s final home game

[Noidnadroj]

I was there today and sadly there are some players that are so badly skilled we cannot keep them on the list. The reason we lose every Marvel game is because you need skill to play there and we are so so so badly skilled it’s embarrassing.
Prestia
Mcintosh
Grimes

These guys must finish up or play elsewhere. They are heroes from another time but presently they are a complete disaster with ball in hand. I’m sorry but they are sub standard.

Mcintosh fails to even stand up properly and run he is that uncoordinated it is amazing he has forged such a career.

Have a go at me all you want but until we do something we will keep losing

I agree with moving on from Macca. Thanks for your service but time to go Macca. But we have to be realistic … Prestia and Grimes are both contracted for 2024 (and Grimes as it stands is captain), and neither are tradeable, so let’s keep discussion on list management to what’s actually viable.

We should also move on from Pickett. His head is not in the game, he gives away stupid frees every week, and he provides nothing up forward. Thanks for your service Marlion, but at your age and our list status your time is up.

If we were a flag chance in 2024 I’d be happy for Jack to go on, but unless something huge happens in the pre-season we are not, so Jack should finish up and I think he will. A Tiger legend.

I’d also trade out Soldo. We can’t play both Nank and Soldo, and Soldo is 28yo at start of 2024 and has trade value. He won’t have value in another 12-months. We’d get a pick around 30, so just do it and add a depth ruckman to our list in the off-season (we can also get one in mid-season draft if Nank goes down). It’s time to release Ryan and develop him for the future. He’s a ruck, not a forward.

And I know we’ve just resigned him, but I’d look to trade out Broad. He’s 31yo start of 2024 and also has trade value for a contender. We’d get a late second for Broady. A win/win. But with Broad gone we can give more opportunity to Trezise, Brown and even Bauer in those roles. And we’ve seen how quick the cliff comes, and Broad has been very average the last 3-4 games after a good first half of season.

So that means out:

Cotch: 33yo
Jack: 34yo
Broad: 31yo (start of season age)
Castagna: 27yo
Tarrant: 34yo
Macca: 30yo (start of season age)
Pickett: 32yo
Soldo: 28yo

We’d then have approx picks: 25 - 35 (Soldo) - 40 (Broad) - 44 - 62 - 80

* I’d be willing to hold Graham as he had a limited pre-season and is only 26yo start of 2024. If a pick in the 20’s came our way I’d consider it, but he’s worth keeping IMO.

And clearing out those players and getting 4-5 draftees takes us from about 3rd oldest list to one of the youngest in one off-season, without losing any highly valuable on-field commodities.

And it wouldn’t hurt culture, as it’s clear we need to gut the list a little and we don’t owe Macca or Pickett anything beyond their 2 flags.

And this is why we need a new coach and not mini… need someone who can make some tough list calls that doesn’t have relationships with these guys.

Then end of 2024 Grimes and potentially Prestia retire, and the only 32+ guys 2025 onwards are Lynch and Dusty.

I actually believe our youth (under 22yo) is better than heading into 2017 … they just need more opportunity and a new coaching voice.


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[Harrison Bergeron]

OUT : The red carpet we've rolled out the last fortnight for the opposition rebounders & midfields to stroll down.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Our midfield last year of Prestia, Cotchin then rotating the likes of Bolton, Short, Graham, Baker, Sonsie etc through worked a lot better than our current midfield once weve added Dusty, Taranto and Hopper. Thats a big problem.

Last year we had a bloke called Lynch winning the B&F and dominating. We’ve got loads of problems, with defending ball movement all over the ground the biggest. That to me is a coaching, structural, effort based issue, not personnel. Saints midfield is absolute sh*te and super slow and they can defend the ground without an issue as they’re well coached defensively. Lions midfield with Neale and Dunkley the mainstays is pretty slow.

A 2024 midfield of TT, Hopper, Prestia, Bolton and Martin with hopefully development from Sonsie and Dow, and cameos from Baker and Short is fine. We need to overhaul our gameplan and defensive structures - midfield personell isn’t a big issue IMO.


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[voorhees]

the whole marvel stadium ' we don't like it' / 'can't win there' is truly pathetic and a indictments on the club.
how we made this stadium such a gruelling nightmare is beyond pathetic.

 

[RJK Tiger]

You get 6 double ups this season. Approx odds are you get 3 from the top half of the ladder, and 3 from the bottom half. Getting 5 from the top half is pretty stiff. We aren’t good enough regardless, but Bombers double ups include 16th, 17th and 18th … and they’re still not making finals, just like us.




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How many of that top half made the finals last year?
Eagles? what a gift!

Saints? nope

Port? Nope

Bulldogs? literally the last team in the 8 last year

Sydney & Melbourne? sure, but you should expect to play a couple of good teams twice.

If you REALLY want to get into how the AFL ****ed us over on the fixture, ask yourself this.....


When was the last time we played NONE of the other "BIG 4" twice in a season? Must have cost the club millions only have the one home game against those clubs. And to make it even more nuts, it was round 1. Meaning the club has no big cash injection throughout the year from attendance.

 

[banzai]

Last year we had a bloke called Lynch winning the B&F and dominating. We’ve got loads of problems, with defending ball movement all over the ground the biggest. That to me is a coaching, structural, effort based issue, not personnel. Saints midfield is absolute sh*te and super slow and they can defend the ground without an issue as they’re well coached defensively. Lions midfield with Neale and Dunkley the mainstays is pretty slow.

A 2024 midfield of TT, Hopper, Prestia, Bolton and Martin with hopefully development from Sonsie and Dow, and cameos from Baker and Short is fine. We need to overhaul our gameplan and defensive structures - midfield personell isn’t a big issue IMO.


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Agree with most of that. But Brisbane are close to the best clearance team in the comp though, if your midfield is going to be slow, you really need to be brutal around the ball and a great clearance team. I cant see these mids ever being great at clearances.

 

[banzai]

They showed some of Balta's lazy efforts before on Foxfooty. Pretty embarassing really, needs to be far more switched on next season.

 

[RJK Tiger]

I agree with moving on from Macca. Thanks for your service but time to go Macca. But we have to be realistic … Prestia and Grimes are both contracted for 2024 (and Grimes as it stands is captain), and neither are tradeable, so let’s keep discussion on list management to what’s actually viable.

We should also move on from Pickett. His head is not in the game, he gives away stupid frees every week, and he provides nothing up forward. Thanks for your service Marlion, but at your age and our list status your time is up.

If we were a flag chance in 2024 I’d be happy for Jack to go on, but unless something huge happens in the pre-season we are not, so Jack should finish up and I think he will. A Tiger legend.

I’d also trade out Soldo. We can’t play both Nank and Soldo, and Soldo is 28yo at start of 2024 and has trade value. He won’t have value in another 12-months. We’d get a pick around 30, so just do it and add a depth ruckman to our list in the off-season (we can also get one in mid-season draft if Nank goes down). It’s time to release Ryan and develop him for the future. He’s a ruck, not a forward.

And I know we’ve just resigned him, but I’d look to trade out Broad. He’s 31yo start of 2024 and also has trade value for a contender. We’d get a late second for Broady. A win/win. But with Broad gone we can give more opportunity to Trezise, Brown and even Bauer in those roles. And we’ve seen how quick the cliff comes, and Broad has been very average the last 3-4 games after a good first half of season.

So that means out:

Cotch: 33yo
Jack: 34yo
Broad: 31yo (start of season age)
Castagna: 27yo
Tarrant: 34yo
Macca: 30yo (start of season age)
Pickett: 32yo
Soldo: 28yo

We’d then have approx picks: 25 - 35 (Soldo) - 40 (Broad) - 44 - 62 - 80

* I’d be willing to hold Graham as he had a limited pre-season and is only 26yo start of 2024. If a pick in the 20’s came our way I’d consider it, but he’s worth keeping IMO.

And clearing out those players and getting 4-5 draftees takes us from about 3rd oldest list to one of the youngest in one off-season, without losing any highly valuable on-field commodities.

And it wouldn’t hurt culture, as it’s clear we need to gut the list a little and we don’t owe Macca or Pickett anything beyond their 2 flags.

And this is why we need a new coach and not mini… need someone who can make some tough list calls that doesn’t have relationships with these guys.

Then end of 2024 Grimes and potentially Prestia retire, and the only 32+ guys 2025 onwards are Lynch and Dusty.

I actually believe our youth (under 22yo) is better than heading into 2017 … they just need more opportunity and a new coaching voice.


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Lets do the math on the Grimes re-signing

-He extended on May 10th for another year, despite pretty poor form. At the time i called it the stupidest deision i had ever seen on the basis that no=one was at all interested in him, his form had been poor & resigning him in May VS End of Season was a huge risk as if he did a knee, his career was effectively over and we still would have had to pay him a few hundred k.

But the dates alone, is another nail in the "Saint Dimma" fallacy.

-on May 25th, Dimma resigned, stating that he had already decided to resign "3 weeks earlier", which puts that time frame at May 4th

Meaning, the club re-signed Dylan a few days after Dimma had already decided to move on. Did the club know Dimma was moving on?
Was Dimma the main driving force behind that deicions ? Was he "fixing up his mates:" before he left the office? sure comes across that way to me

Just another example of Dimma being too close to his "boys" and failing to put the club ahead of them and his own legacy & "his boys" self interest


When you look back at those dates above, it really makes me wonder how these decisions were being made. It's transparent as **** that Dimma has been more interested in rewarding the boys who made him an icon Vs caring about the best longterm interest of the RFC

 

[Ctl]

They showed some of Balta's lazy efforts before on Foxfooty. Pretty embarassing really, needs to be far more switched on next season.

Yep, I think he can be the best defender in the comp, but he sometimes plays so lackadaisical. Which is infuriating because he has literally everything in terms of attributes.

 

[Spagman]

Yep, I think he can be the best defender in the comp, but he sometimes plays so lackadaisical. Which is infuriating because he has literally everything in terms of attributes.

He doesn't have a monopoly on this right now.

 

[RJK Tiger]

Yep, I think he can be the best defender in the comp, but he sometimes plays so lackadaisical. Which is infuriating because he has literally everything in terms of attributes.

I worry he hasn;t got the temperament to be an elite defender. His sarcastic clapping at the ump last week reenforced that for me. Not something you would see Rance, Scarlett do. They never externalised outcomes

 

[k31th]

Best part of the game was when Vlastuin did a perfect chest fend on Butler and put him on his arse.

 

[k31th]

Dusty stealing this from Battle's grasp... beautiful stuff haha and the nice and steady finish by Baker.

 

[k31th]

From Young's 1on1 win against Membrey to DRioli's run through the packs give-n-getting as he went, to Short's run off half-back on the switch to Bolton's casual kick I50 to JR8's climb over Sinclair... champagne footy

 

[k31th]

Bolton's fantastic speccy on Wood's back to his play-on to break Sinclair's tackle to DRioli beating 3 (NWM, Wood & Crouch) to Coulthard's tap to Taranto to Taranto beating Crouch's tackle and the accurate snap I50 and Bauer reading the snap so well to get the mark and goal. Beautiful stuff.

 

[k31th]

From Grimes' tackle on Higgins to prevent a score right up the wing to Dusty's beautiful delivery to Baker. Nice team goal

 

[k31th]

Bolton just can't help but be brilliant at least once in each game, it seems... amazing goal

 

[k31th]

I think Baker was halfway through kicking for goal when he spotted Bauer here haha

 

[k31th]

Is it just me or does Taranto seem to never miss from 45m+ within 45deg angle haha. Good consistent team play to get this one all the way from full-back right around the ground to Taranto.

 

[k31th]

From Ross's smother to prevent the D50 exit and pressure on NWM's kick from the goal-line... to Broady reading the bounce and wrong-footing Butler and finishing perfectly... sublime stuff from Broady

 

[k31th]

A nice collection of quality plays throughout the game.


and of course there's more than the above, so if you'd like to see the rest of the GIF's from this game, click this link to see them -> https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/richmond-gifs.1047662/post-80575138

 

[IceT]

The on field issues are mainly coaching IMO.

We've gone from a highly structured team, where everyone knew their role, to the complete opposite.

I saw some of the Adelaide Crows game, and they are well structured. When the Lions took possession there were no free options to kick to.

Then our game, Tigers guarding space, free saints players everywhere, including King. When your full back won't man up after a turn over to them, something is wrong.

Nearly every player looks sh*t. No doubt all those players have the ability to look good. They're just not being played to their strengths.

Losing Mcrae, Leppitsch, Caracella, Kingsley and replacing them with the likes of Teague will do that to your team.

Has anyone mentioned Grigg as a coaching candidate? He was reputedly a very smart footballer, and he's had good grounding at Geelong.

We'll need elite assistant coaches too.

Start with a coaching dept rebuild.

 

[dothebowdenshuffle]

I agree with moving on from Macca. Thanks for your service but time to go Macca. But we have to be realistic … Prestia and Grimes are both contracted for 2024 (and Grimes as it stands is captain), and neither are tradeable, so let’s keep discussion on list management to what’s actually viable.

We should also move on from Pickett. His head is not in the game, he gives away stupid frees every week, and he provides nothing up forward. Thanks for your service Marlion, but at your age and our list status your time is up.

If we were a flag chance in 2024 I’d be happy for Jack to go on, but unless something huge happens in the pre-season we are not, so Jack should finish up and I think he will. A Tiger legend.

I’d also trade out Soldo. We can’t play both Nank and Soldo, and Soldo is 28yo at start of 2024 and has trade value. He won’t have value in another 12-months. We’d get a pick around 30, so just do it and add a depth ruckman to our list in the off-season (we can also get one in mid-season draft if Nank goes down). It’s time to release Ryan and develop him for the future. He’s a ruck, not a forward.

And I know we’ve just resigned him, but I’d look to trade out Broad. He’s 31yo start of 2024 and also has trade value for a contender. We’d get a late second for Broady. A win/win. But with Broad gone we can give more opportunity to Trezise, Brown and even Bauer in those roles. And we’ve seen how quick the cliff comes, and Broad has been very average the last 3-4 games after a good first half of season.

So that means out:

Cotch: 33yo
Jack: 34yo
Broad: 31yo (start of season age)
Castagna: 27yo
Tarrant: 34yo
Macca: 30yo (start of season age)
Pickett: 32yo
Soldo: 28yo

We’d then have approx picks: 25 - 35 (Soldo) - 40 (Broad) - 44 - 62 - 80

* I’d be willing to hold Graham as he had a limited pre-season and is only 26yo start of 2024. If a pick in the 20’s came our way I’d consider it, but he’s worth keeping IMO.

And clearing out those players and getting 4-5 draftees takes us from about 3rd oldest list to one of the youngest in one off-season, without losing any highly valuable on-field commodities.

And it wouldn’t hurt culture, as it’s clear we need to gut the list a little and we don’t owe Macca or Pickett anything beyond their 2 flags.

And this is why we need a new coach and not mini… need someone who can make some tough list calls that doesn’t have relationships with these guys.

Then end of 2024 Grimes and potentially Prestia retire, and the only 32+ guys 2025 onwards are Lynch and Dusty.

I actually believe our youth (under 22yo) is better than heading into 2017 … they just need more opportunity and a new coaching voice.


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Excellent post. Summarises our situation well and provides a sound blueprint for future success. I read somewhere during the week that we're seeking to trade a package of picks for Suns r1 pick as they require them to draft a few academy kids

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[Bojangles17]

From Young's 1on1 win against Membrey to DRioli's run through the packs give-n-getting as he went, to Short's run off half-back on the switch to Bolton's casual kick I50 to JR8's climb over Sinclair... champagne footy

Young did a good job on membrey

 

[A Tiger 4 lyf]

I’m really starting to hate Balta as our man down back, he’s consistently conceding match winning bag’s to his opponents

Might be a great interceptor but his defensive game overall is dog shit, must be close to conceding 1000 goals this season

I want him in the middle