List Mgmt. Contract, Trade and Draft Discussions - 2024 Edition

[Keys]

Quick links:
Player contract status
Draft prospect video highlights (thanks to noobermensch)
AFL retirements and delistings

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Latest news and rumours:

• Tom Barrass officially requests trade to Hawthorn
  • Duffield: Eagles want two first round picks - "It may have to be in this year’s draft rather than a future pick."
  • Morris: Josh Battle is set to join Barrass at Hawthorn in 2025 - Ralph: Unclear if Hawks will pay enough for Band 1

• Kysaiah Pickett interested in a trade
  • "Club and management are confident they can work through his concerns"
  • Daniels: Pickett’s preference is Fremantle. Fremantle are keen, but Bolton the priority. Getting both “not impossible”. West Coast “an option if things get complicated.”

• Jai Culley, Coen Livingstone, Loch Rawlinson in line for one-year deals (The West)
  
  
• Liam Baker and Shai Bolton
  29

  Shai Bolton

  Age

  25

  Ht

  176cm

  Wt

  77kg

  Pos.

  M/F

  Career

  Season

  Last 5

  D

  12.3

  3star

  K

  6.9

  3star

  HB

  5.4

  4star

  M

  2.8

  3star

  T

  2.9

  4star

  CL

  1.4

  4star

  D

  12.7

  3star

  K

  9.2

  4star

  HB

  3.5

  2star

  M

  3.0

  3star

  T

  2.7

  4star

  CL

  1.8

  4star

  D

  9.2

  3star

  K

  4.6

  2star

  HB

  4.6

  4star

  M

  2.0

  3star

  T

  2.6

  4star

  CL

  0.0

  1star

  officially request trades to WA
  • Daniels: Bolton is Fremantle’s priority

 

[eaglevision]

Players traded in by West Coast :

2023
• Matt Flynn(FA) - 3 year deal that triggered end of R2 compensation (Band 4)
• Tyler Brockman - for picks 44 and 63

2022
• Jayden Hunt(FA) - 3 year deal that triggered R3 compensation (Band 5)

2021
• Sam Petrevski-Seton - for pick 52

2020
• Zac Langdon - for pick 54
• Alex Witherden (+pick 86) - for pick 58 + F3 with Brisbane paying some of his salary

2019
• Tim Kelly (+ pick 52/F3) - for picks 14,24,33 + F1

2018
• Tom Hickey (+ pick 61/F4) - for pick 39 + F4

2017
• Brendan Ah Chee (+F4) - for F3

2016
• Sam Mitchell (+ picks 54,72) - for picks 52,70,88
• Nathan Vardy - for pick 72

2015
• Jack Redden - for pick 17
• Lewis Jetta - for Callum Sinclair
• Jonathan Giles (+ pick 62) for pick 57

2014
• Nil

2013
• Xavier Ellis(FA) - no compensation triggered
• Elliot Yeo - for pick 28

2012
• Sharrod Wellingham - for pick 18
• Cale Morton - for pick 88
• Jamie Cripps (+ pick 45) - for picks 40,43

2011
• Josh Hill - for pick 49


Aside from Kelly because I can’t be arsed arguing the merits of that trade, which of the above trades would you consider we caved on?

Several didn’t quite work out as we may have hoped but nor did we give much up trading them in

It’s a bit of a board myth that we always cave which isn’t supported by the evidence

Thanks for putting this together. There’s a very clear inflection point in 2017. Before that our trading was excellent. 4 walk up starters to our best 22 flag side as well as some serviceable role players, one of whom also played in the flag. Other than Wellingham we didn’t overpay for any of them in hindsight, and even for him I think pick 18 was fair at the time, he just didn’t produce what he was capable of.

What happened after that? It’s too early to judge 2022 and 2023 in such a short space of time but 2017-2021 was diabolical. As you said, don’t need to go into the Kelly trade to know we got reamed and the rest have just been awful. Not for a second in their careers have Ah Chee, Witho, Langdon and SPS looked AFL quality. The very definition of list cloggers and now we’re going after Graham who’s likely to fall in the same catagory. I don’t see how we’ve offered him less than Band 3 compo to move over here, which random260 rightly points out would give Richmond yet another pick before our 2R.

Hickey as a mature ruck showed a bit with both us and Sydney and I don’t blame the club for trading for an established ruck at relatively low cost, especially with Nic Nat’s injury history.

The Graham and Baker links reek of someone with their head in the sand whose opinion of players is being swayed by emotion. Giving up any 2R or more for Baker would be stupidity of the highest order. Baker needs to sign with Richmond for another year with a player option for 4-5 years to give him security and get him to FA next year. Then we can look at a band 1 deal to give the tigers a top 2 pick and get some other picks coming back to us in other deals. Surely that’s the set play for all parties? Even a band 2 deal would likely give them what they will be asking for this year at a minimum.

Graham was a good chance to be delisted by the wooden spooners and we want their scraps? I’d rather pay a bit more for a player like Cumming that instantly makes us better. Just because there’s only a few FAs on the market, doesn’t mean we have to pursue them. Maybe harsh but likely to end up in the SPS, Langdon, Witho, Ah Chee group.

Clarke had a lot of work to do to inspire any level of confidence in him if these links are true. Aiming for mediocrity is not (wasn’t?) in our DNA and in a very deep draft I’d much rather those list spots go to 18 year olds. We should be looking for a diamond in the rough like a Mitch Lewis, Nick Larkey,
Noah Long or more recently Lawson Humphries rather than trade in players whose ceiling we’ve seen is not good enough moving forward.

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

Players traded in by West Coast :

2023
• Matt Flynn(FA) - 3 year deal that triggered end of R2 compensation (Band 4)
• Tyler Brockman - for picks 44 and 63

2022
• Jayden Hunt(FA) - 3 year deal that triggered R3 compensation (Band 5)

2021
• Sam Petrevski-Seton - for pick 52

2020
• Zac Langdon - for pick 54
• Alex Witherden (+pick 86) - for pick 58 + F3 with Brisbane paying some of his salary

2019
• Tim Kelly (+ pick 52/F3) - for picks 14,24,33 + F1

2018
• Tom Hickey (+ pick 61/F4) - for pick 39 + F4

2017
• Brendan Ah Chee (+F4) - for F3

2016
• Sam Mitchell (+ picks 54,72) - for picks 52,70,88
• Nathan Vardy - for pick 72

2015
• Jack Redden - for pick 17
• Lewis Jetta - for Callum Sinclair
• Jonathan Giles (+ pick 62) for pick 57

2014
• Nil

2013
• Xavier Ellis(FA) - no compensation triggered
• Elliot Yeo - for pick 28

2012
• Sharrod Wellingham - for pick 18
• Cale Morton - for pick 88
• Jamie Cripps (+ pick 45) - for picks 40,43

2011
• Josh Hill - for pick 49


Aside from Kelly because I can’t be arsed arguing the merits of that trade, which of the above trades would you consider we caved on?

Several didn’t quite work out as we may have hoped but nor did we give much up trading them in

It’s a bit of a board myth that we always cave which isn’t supported by the evidence

Brockman we over paid considering we finished bottom we had all the leverage

Langdon , ahchee and SPS would have all been delisted and we paid picks we could have used in the draft .

Brisbane should have given us a pick to take witherden who they clearly didn't want because he is treacle slow and was a salary dump . Yet we gave them 2 picks

Wellingham we over paid

Kelly we over paid

We continually pay over market value especially of late

We are not very good at this

 

[Get_The_Gaff]

A lot of reactions to a couple of tweets

I don’t like the idea of selling the farm for mediocre players either, but nothing has happened yet.

Let’s just wait and see how things pan out

Don't let common sense get in the way of good old unjustified melts .

Do you even know how to big footy ?

 

[mat11]

I don't want any of the crabs that have been linked to our club, I also think English is overated as hell. If we are serious about a rebuild just bring in 18yr olds and clear out our worst 6-8 players at the club and DONT bring in other clubs junk

Call me boring but this is the best draft position we could do imo

-Barass to Hawks for pick 10 + 2025 F1
-2025 F1 (Hawks) to GC for pick 11

Pick 3
Pick 10 (Hawks trade for Barass)
Pick 11 (Hawks F1 to GC)
Pick 23
Pick 59

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

You just know the hawks will try palm off Denver Granger barrass on us and that's a big no for me .

My preference is for the AFL to give us some picks and we keep barrass and waterman .

Ryan on the other hand I would part with. Shit work ethic and 3 hamstring surgeries bye bye

Ryan won’t get a first round pick

We need to be rutheless and speed up the rebuild by getting some top line picks. Getting picks in the 25-35 range aren’t going to help

 

[Lyyynnnchy]

It needs to be ****ing band three so we stop diluting our picks.

Seriously our recruiter is an ex Richmond recruiter who probs think the current wooden spooners have gems. Holy **** Clarke tigers are wooden spooners they have no gems.


We didn't hire you to turn us into wooden spooners tigers.

Reading this post I knew it was you before looking at the username…

 

[FKASC]

Don't let common sense get in the way of good old unjustified melts .

Do you even know how to big footy ?

I do, and I love a preemptive melt as much as the next guy

 

[MaxHunt]

I don't want any of the crabs that have been linked to our club, I also think English is overated as hell. If we are serious about a rebuild just bring in 18yr olds and clear out our worst 6-8 players at the club and DONT bring in other clubs junk

Call me boring but this is the best draft position we could do imo

-Barass to Hawks for pick 10 + 2025 F1
-2025 F1 (Hawks) to GC for pick 11

Pick 3
Pick 10 (Hawks trade for Barass)
Pick 11 (Hawks F1 to GC)
Pick 23
Pick 59

English would improve the team in an area that is greatly needed. He would cost no draft captial. No brainer.

Baker would cost too much. Would prefer Graham to him for the above English reasons.

Only situation the club should entertain Baker should be if they get end of first round concessions from the AFL that must be traded for players.

 

[Ambrose Burnside]

What's our hit rate of using late draft picks at the draft vs using late draft picks on trades? Or bringing in free agents that netted the other club late draft picks?

I'm thinking 3rd/4th rounders?

 

[Cornelius Roy]

I can’t stand that Clarke has his sticky fingers all over these shitty Richmond deals, especially after the F3 to move from 40 to 38 rort last year. If our list strategy is to bring in an injury prone plodder and an overpriced 27 year old midget rather than give those spots to 18yo in a very deep draft then we are f**ked.

yep, club hasn't really changed if it just goes from the west coast old boys club to the Richmond old boys club.

 

[eaglevision]

What's our hit rate of using late draft picks at the draft vs using late draft picks on trades? Or bringing in free agents that netted the other club late draft picks?

I'm thinking 3rd/4th rounders?

Grossly generalising but I think our 1R and 4R/rookie picks have been very good and our 2/3R have been pretty average.

 

[eaglevision]

yep, club hasn't really changed if it just goes from the west coast old boys club to the Richmond old boys club.

One credits club to another.

 

[Barrybran]

Band 3 would still push our 2nd rounder back another pick as Richmond would get a pick after their 2nd which is ahead of us ATM .

Band 4 would be end of 2nd and not so bad

Honestly 2 years for Graham as a stop gap on average pay isn't the end of the world.

Anything more View attachment 2065830

Wasn't there talk of overpaying Graham to trigger a better compensation for Richmond, which in turn reduces the cost of acquiring Baker for us?

 

[Elite Pete]

Hate it. Injury prone plodder

Slept on it and while I wouldn’t have went out and got him he does feel a need for us. We have not much in the big body tackling cba players.

Reading his trade board some of the Tigers fans description of him is promising. Leader, hard worker and will give his all which we don’t have a lot of.

Really do hope this is part of a Baker deal and the band has been levelled up so we pay less. Will still be a 2nd rounder or will be red flagged by the AFL. We will have money to spend.

Plays straight away (if not injured). Yze did say he would love to known from his players around now if they planned to leave. So makes sense why it’s starting to get leaked.

Now just need Freo to lock in Bolton and that probably takes them out of the Warner stakes and leaves that between us and Sydney. Downside with Shai they will be a legit contender for a long time.

Let Clarke cook.
Graham *
English 50/50 could have TB money ti play with to get it over the line and front end.
Baker 50/50
Garcia linked
Carroll linked
Sid*
Travagalia*

I think all play in our best 23 next year rd1 along with Hewett and only TB goes out, with hopefully HEdwarda locked in and ready to go. (Probably B Williams).

That’s how you get competitive fast while also having an eye to the future.

 

[Elite Pete]

Wasn't there talk of overpaying Graham to trigger a better compensation for Richmond, which in turn reduces the cost of acquiring Baker for us?

Just speculation but smart way of pick purchasing before it’s an actual thing.

 

[eaglevision]

AFL Draft 2024 Rankings: Father-son, academy guns surge amid most even draft in years

Father-son gun’s big surge; Dusty-like star looms large: Top 30 AFL Draft Rankings

www.foxsports.com.au

A good top 30 but a few out of place IMO. I believe the AFL are finalising the DVI/NGA etc changes today so stay tuned.

 

[stallon]

I think any melts over Graham/Baker or anything Clarke is doing are a little premature, we haven't paid anything yet, only signed a FA who is an upgrade on the bottom end of our 22.

 

[Hoskin300]

What sort of player is Graham and who is he likely to replace in our line-up?

Slow competitive inside player

Hunt wasn’t an immediately popular acquisition when it was first mooted but at least he had pace which was something we lacked so there was some discernible logic to it

Not entirely sure what Graham brings that we specifically lack other than being a bit of a mature body. Seems an odd choice. Certainly not a particularly exciting one

Withholding judgement for now until we see all the list changes in what’s shaping as an intriguing and atypical offseason at West Coast

Yeah not a fan of graham. Doesn’t fill a need at all.

 

[Hoskin300]

Graham is a very meh move, but sadly he's probably better than a handful of our current list cloggers. Ideally he ends up in the wafl because our young guys are out performing him. If anyone's going to know what he brings it's Clarke. Hopefully its some standards, effort & leadership.

He is also four years older than a couple of our list cloggers.

 

[Hoskin300]

Thanks for putting this together. There’s a very clear inflection point in 2017. Before that our trading was excellent. 4 walk up starters to our best 22 flag side as well as some serviceable role players, one of whom also played in the flag. Other than Wellingham we didn’t overpay for any of them in hindsight, and even for him I think pick 18 was fair at the time, he just didn’t produce what he was capable of.

What happened after that? It’s too early to judge 2022 and 2023 in such a short space of time but 2017-2021 was diabolical. As you said, don’t need to go into the Kelly trade to know we got reamed and the rest have just been awful. Not for a second in their careers have Ah Chee, Witho, Langdon and SPS looked AFL quality. The very definition of list cloggers and now we’re going after Graham who’s likely to fall in the same catagory. I don’t see how we’ve offered him less than Band 3 compo to move over here, which random260 rightly points out would give Richmond yet another pick before our 2R.

Hickey as a mature ruck showed a bit with both us and Sydney and I don’t blame the club for trading for an established ruck at relatively low cost, especially with Nic Nat’s injury history.

The Graham and Baker links reek of someone with their head in the sand whose opinion of players is being swayed by emotion. Giving up any 2R or more for Baker would be stupidity of the highest order. Baker needs to sign with Richmond for another year with a player option for 4-5 years to give him security and get him to FA next year. Then we can look at a band 1 deal to give the tigers a top 2 pick and get some other picks coming back to us in other deals. Surely that’s the set play for all parties? Even a band 2 deal would likely give them what they will be asking for this year at a minimum.

Graham was a good chance to be delisted by the wooden spooners and we want their scraps? I’d rather pay a bit more for a player like Cumming that instantly makes us better. Just because there’s only a few FAs on the market, doesn’t mean we have to pursue them. Maybe harsh but likely to end up in the SPS, Langdon, Witho, Ah Chee group.

Clarke had a lot of work to do to inspire any level of confidence in him if these links are true. Aiming for mediocrity is not (wasn’t?) in our DNA and in a very deep draft I’d much rather those list spots go to 18 year olds. We should be looking for a diamond in the rough like a Mitch Lewis, Nick Larkey,
Noah Long or more recently Lawson Humphries rather than trade in players whose ceiling we’ve seen is not good enough moving forward.

Very good analysis and agree with all of it.

 

[eaglevision]

I think any melts over Graham/Baker or anything Clarke is doing are a little premature, we haven't paid anything yet, only signed a FA who is an upgrade on the bottom end of our 22.

We’ve already signed someone?

 

[stallon]

We’ve already signed someone?

Apparently going to sign*

 

[Obeanie1]

What sort of player is Graham and who is he likely to replace in our line-up?

Jack Redden but a bit slower.

He can replace Gaff or Sheed and provide inside / outside grunt and leadership.

 

[AnyDanger]

He is also four years older than a couple of our list cloggers.

I think you'll find his age is part of the appeal. The clubs spoken regularly about that missing age bracket.

I don't love it, but it's not a make or break move either way.

 

[Hoskin300]

I think you'll find his age is part of the appeal. The clubs spoken regularly about that missing age bracket.

I don't love it, but it's not a make or break move either way

Would rather keep a 20 year old on the list than him.