Delisting/list changes for 2010

[BOND 007]

Look, I'm sure that's what he's doing, drawing the line in the sand. The major issue I see with Tony is he's skinny and obviously having trouble putting on weight. He's doing the weights, the running, I don't see him shirking those issues which some people think he does. He goes into contests, doesn't seagull on the outside.

The other big issue, IMO, is assertiveness and selfishness. He's not assertive enough or selfish enough, again that's my opinion from watching him. There's obviously something there and if I recall didn't Essendon get a bit testy about Gumbleton and Carlton about Kennedy at stages? They say they take these guys on as projects, but they don't really, they want them to develop at a quicker rate than what the development people tell them. The development guys at the eagles said 5 years for Notte, from day 1, so Suma shouldn't be under any illusions. Something more here, I suspect.

I think it probably boils down to a fair bit of frustration in Sumich given he's the forwardline coach and realizes he is under pressure to retain his position come years end. The tried options of Mckinley, Lynch and Brown werent successful and so he sees Notte as being the next choice given he is in his 3rd year, was a relatively high draft pick and was drafted to fill this exact position.
Perhaps Sumich was prepared to cut Notte some slack previously as Geappen and Hansen were the go to players at Swans. However given Hansen hasnt played for a number of weeks, Sumich was probably expecting Notte to stand up and grap the opportunity - but it seems like he hasnt and that is probably adding to the frustration.

Swannies you are obviously more aware of the happenings at Swans and Notte than I am, but from an old players perspective I actually believe the concept of playing Notte at FF is wrong. To me his position is on a HFF where he can play high and be used as a conduit from the backline. He is a good mark one on one and on a lead, has reasonable pace and is quite good below his knees. He is also a very good kick (both weighting the ball and with penetration) and if it was my choice I would have him roaming around between the centre and HF lines where he could kick to the likes of Kennedy who are better in stationary mark situations that Notte.

IMO he will never make a FF as he hasnt the strength and weight to mark in contested situations or in confined spaces. Someone mentioned he needs to add 12 kgs - well he's never going to do that.

By the way Swannies, I agree about him being a 5yr project and WC expecting it quicker than that even knowing what they were signing up for when they drafted them. However in reality, unless you are one of the top teams regularly playing in GF's then you really cant afford a 5 yr wait on your investment nowdays.

 

[swannies]

I think it probably boils down to a fair bit of frustration in Sumich given he's the forwardline coach and realizes he is under pressure to retain his position come years end. The tried options of Mckinley, Lynch and Brown werent successful and so he sees Notte as being the next choice given he is in his 3rd year, was a relatively high draft pick and was drafted to fill this exact position.
Perhaps Sumich was prepared to cut Notte some slack previously as Geappen and Hansen were the go to players at Swans. However given Hansen hasnt played for a number of weeks, Sumich was probably expecting Notte to stand up and grap the opportunity - but it seems like he hasnt and that is probably adding to the frustration.

Swannies you are obviously more aware of the happenings at Swans and Notte than I am, but from an old players perspective I actually believe the concept of playing Notte at FF is wrong. To me his position is on a HFF where he can play high and be used as a conduit from the backline. He is a good mark one on one and on a lead, has reasonable pace and is quite good below his knees. He is also a very good kick (both weighting the ball and with penetration) and if it was my choice I would have him roaming around between the centre and HF lines where he could kick to the likes of Kennedy who are better in stationary mark situations that Notte.

IMO he will never make a FF as he hasnt the strength and weight to mark in contested situations or in confined spaces. Someone mentioned he needs to add 12 kgs - well he's never going to do that.

By the way Swannies, I agree about him being a 5yr project and WC expecting it quicker than that even knowing what they were signing up for when they drafted them. However in reality, unless you are one of the top teams regularly playing in GF's then you really cant afford a 5 yr wait on your investment nowdays.

That part bolded is exactly right and is actually the role he played in ressies yesterday. Daly stayed in/around the goal square. Yes, he has a beautiful kick, 50m on left or right. Seemed to enjoy it yesterday as well, and he wsan't left to roam on his own, the Peel number 53 was at him the whole time, so didn't get it easy.

There are a couple of reasons for the not grabbing, which Sumich should be aware of because when I spoke to Tony pre-season he was quite frustrated, because of the virus or whatever, but wanted to play a "number of games" so seemed ready to take an opportunity.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I'm a bit concerned that nearly all of the guys who are in line to get chopped are talls - Spangher, Wilkes, Notte, Sullivan and Wilson. Plus Lynch, McKinley (plays tall) and Hansen are all potential trade bait.

 

[new breed]

Weedon can play as a tall in the forward line for the next decade maybe ?.

I think the club and Notte should part ways and let him be drafted elsewhere in the compronised drafts . If Notte lasts to our Rookie pick we can redraft , but Notte seems under too much pressure and needs a chance for a new start

 

[Eagle Ant]

A depressing change of tone given the greatness of last night but with the standout rookie players on display last night it did get me thinking. Id go with

Delist

Matthew Spangher- Tradeable
Beau Wilkes- Agree


Will Sullivan- NO is starting to show some signs of Improvement and Talent.
Callum Wilson- NO- Should be elevated not delisted
Adam Cockie- NO- is still really young and has shown he has ability.

Trade

Ben McKinley- Agree

Veteran list

Darren Glass- Yes
Andrew Embley- Yes

Promote

Lewis Stevenson * (must promote or lose to draft)

Would give us 4 draft picks in the draft and 2 in the rookie draft. 6 rookies overall instead of the 8 because of the 2 vet listed players with Hams JON, Strjik and Broome retained. Hams can be promoted in round 1 without any long term injury due to rule changes

JON- Delist
Lynch- Trade
Hansen- Tradeable
Spangher Tradeable
Butler- Resigning- so wont trade
McGinnity- Just resigned
Swift- Just Resigned
S.Selwood- Just Resigned
B.Jones- Delist/Trade
Nicoski- Delist/Trade

 

[BOND 007]

That part bolded is exactly right and is actually the role he played in ressies yesterday. Daly stayed in/around the goal square. Yes, he has a beautiful kick, 50m on left or right. Seemed to enjoy it yesterday as well, and he wsan't left to roam on his own, the Peel number 53 was at him the whole time, so didn't get it easy.

There are a couple of reasons for the not grabbing, which Sumich should be aware of because when I spoke to Tony pre-season he was quite frustrated, because of the virus or whatever, but wanted to play a "number of games" so seemed ready to take an opportunity.

Part of the problem that occurs with teams with an extended time down the bottom of the ladder, is the pressure built on players to perform when they arent physically ready AS WELL as pressure on the coaches to pull rabbits from hats which generally result in making player moves that are bewildering to most of us a la Mitch Brown.

To me WC are lacking several criteria as the exit the backline. Their players are for the most part one dimensional, slow, have poor kicking skills and make poor decisions. Sure Notte is not fast as we know it, but solves most of the other issues I have mentioned. He certainly would offer a good marking option coming out of defence, and a good marking option drifiting foward to the fwd 50.

I wasnt aware of the position he played for Swans yesterday until you mentioned it, but it builds the case of what I am saying.

I am sure the issue re Notte is simply Sumich venting his frustration, but in reality he is frustrated because Notte isnt becoming the positional player HE WAS NEVER GOING TO BECOME.

I sometimes wish AFL clubs had the balls to involve an outside party in some of their decisions. It strikes me that football depts become too insular and often fail to see the woods from the trees.

 

[worsfold]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624056

Gumbleton, Myers, jetta - all out of contract at the end of the year

 

[Eastern Rangers]

JON- Delist

Nah. JON has shown something, delist Cockie. We have zero need for him.

 

[Underdog]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=624056

Gumbleton, Myers, jetta - all out of contract at the end of the year

Jetta's the only one I'd look at as I think Gumby and Myers' values would be too inflated for what they've produced or shown.

 

[paran]

Re: Myers, half-back flank is the most populated position we have right now. Gumbleton could be an interesting FF option now that he's healthy. With Notte, unless he does add weight, I think HFF is the better position for him. As I've said before, I've always rated his hands and ability below the waist, and along with his leading speed would be a pretty good HFF. In previous threads I mentioned him in a Hird sort of role (bit OTT), but he has that skill set.

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Move Notte to the rookie list. Im his sponsor and i support the idea, he's got talent and he needs time. He won't get that time on the Senior list.

If he gets taken then so be it.

 

[Prem87]

Could Gumby play FF or is he better suited at CHF? Too injury prone to pay over the top for him. They're wasting time persisting with Neagle I doubt they would let him go as he and maybe Hurley are their only hopes up forward.

 

[tesseract]

I'm a bit concerned that nearly all of the guys who are in line to get chopped are talls - Spangher, Wilkes, Notte, Sullivan and Wilson. Plus Lynch, McKinley (plays tall) and Hansen are all potential trade bait.

Just look at where in the draft these blokes are drafted at.

Notte was pick 20. That's an acceptable pick to get a quality player.
McKinley was pick 29. Pick 29 is borderline as to whether you'll get a quality player.
McKenzie was pick 29. He's another borderline pick, but I think he'll make it at as an AFL player.
Spangher was pick 34.
Hansen was pick 37.
Picks from 30+ are iffy IMO.
Lynch, Wilson, Sullivan and Wilkes are all rookies. One can't expect quality from here. It's just a bonus if they they become a quality player.

We as fans expect too much from guys that aren't even ranked highly in their given drafts. If WC want quality talls, they better start using 1st round picks to get them, instead of the left overs that has become the norm for them.

Kennedy was taken at pick 5, he's going to make it as an AFL player. M.Brown was pick 16, he's going to make it too.

The difference in quality of our talls that were taken in the 1st round compared to that of later rounds is easily distinguishable.

It should come as no surprise that the players that most want traded are from meh picks. There's always an exception, like Schofield, but for the most part, you get what you pay for.

It goes to show how important top 30 picks are. West Coast should be looking to be upgrading picks into this category.

*FS, my post is not really directed at you.

 

[tesseract]

West Coast have invested 3 years into Tony Notte. They should not give up on him now. Give him a new 2 year deal and stay the course with him.

I wouldn't want us to give up on him now, get nothing in return for him, only for him to come good in a couple of years time and burn us. Keep the faith for now, he's only 20, that's young for a tall.

 

[WCE_phil]

I will be ****ing pissed if we trade in a CHF thats for sure. Lynch,Brown,Hansen,Kennedy,Notte are all CHF's or third talls when drafted. We dont have a single ****ing ff on our main list. **** even wilson is more of a CHF than a FF.

The closest possible thing to a FF on our list is mckinley and he's 185 cm's and pretty lazy.

 

[Avalor]

I will be ****ing pissed if we trade in a CHF thats for sure. Lynch,Brown,Hansen,Kennedy,Notte are all CHF's or third talls when drafted. We dont have a single ****ing ff on our main list. **** even wilson is more of a CHF than a FF.

The closest possible thing to a FF on our list is mckinley and he's 185 cm's and pretty lazy.

That's why I'd like to get Gorringe in the draft from SA - he could be developed into a very good FF by all reports. Now that pick 4 won't be ours (fingers crossed), he might be a possibility for our first pick.

 

[southjoy]

Just an educated guess about Gumbleton. Essendon have perservered with this kid through a lot of injuries and for that reason i9 can't see them wanting to let him go.
Myers is a different story. Exceptioonally talented and has also had some injuries but is definitely out of favour. This kid could be a good pick up and may not cost us a thing/or relatively not much.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

That's why I'd like to get Gorringe in the draft from SA - he could be developed into a very good FF by all reports. Now that pick 4 won't be ours (fingers crossed), he might be a possibility for our first pick.

Plus we'd finally have a player whose name rhymes with orange.

 

[Wet Toast Rule]

I would rather retain Notte than any of:
Cockie, Hansen, B Jones, Nicoski, Wilkes, Spangher

We know what those guys are capable of.

They are depth players and should be traded or delisted or retired and their contracts payed out.

Notte has a lot more potential and should be given another contract given he is a 4-5 year project player with a huge upside.

It would be absolutely stupid to put 3 years of work into a guy and then have him picked up by GC or another club like Port / Brisbane who may fall below us.

 

[WCE_phil]

I would rather retain Notte than any of:
Cockie, Hansen, B Jones, Nicoski, Wilkes, Spangher

We know what those guys are capable of.

They are depth players and should be traded or delisted or retired and their contracts payed out.

Notte has a lot more potential and should be given another contract given he is a 4-5 year project player with a huge upside.

It would be absolutely stupid to put 3 years of work into a guy and then have him picked up by GC or another club like Port / Brisbane who may fall below us.

While i agree that we have seen the best of what most of those players have to offer the honest fact is that right now all of those players are more capable of playing a role in an AFL team than notte.

Like it or not we cant have a list of 40 superstars and we cant have a list of 40 young players either. There are going to be injuries and the youngsters do still need some senior leadership, protection and players to show them the way. Are all of the players you listed valuable and should we keep all of them on the list at the expense of youngsters? Of course not.

On the same token though you cant just throw the baby out with the bathwater or in this case you dont just take your wife our the back paddock and shoot her whenever you see a younger, prettier replacement.

Getting rid of all of those players in one year would be an extreme folly. Who knows, i could be wrong and all of them could be gone at the end of the year and none ever play a game for us ever again. But if we were to get rid of all of them we would have no coverage for injuries in multiple positions on the ground.

Now im not advocating keeping all of them either. Cockie is a rookie and hasnt shown enough to keep around when we have plenty of most likely superior coverage for how he plays. Spangher just doesn't look like he wants to be here and i really think that we've seen the best wilkes has to offer.

Hansen and Bones on the other hand are both great clubmen and have given us a lot in the past. Both are also capable of playing a role in the team if the shit was to hit the fan with injuries. Neither will be costing us much to keep around, especially once hansen's current contract is done with.

I also really wouldnt like us to be heading past pick 50 in the main round of this years draft. The top 3 seem like exceptional picks. Theres some very good tall options and a wide range of very solid picks up to about 20 and there should be some good youngsters past that as well. To want to get rid of 5 main list players as well as having two go to the veterans list all in such a compromised year just seems like a terrible idea.

 

[Prem87]

That's why I'd like to get Gorringe in the draft from SA - he could be developed into a very good FF by all reports. Now that pick 4 won't be ours (fingers crossed), he might be a possibility for our first pick.

I'm very keen on Gorringe as well. He just moves so well. Being an undersized ruckman we could develop him into a Tippet style FF, but more importantly both him and Naitinui could swap between ruck and FF throughout the game.

If we don't get Darling, it's Gorringe for me.

 

[Marlin01]

Plus we'd finally have a player whose name rhymes with orange.

We may never get that opportunity again. It's a shame his first name is not Vaughn.

 

[Coledinho]

People who want Cockie need to realise his knee is buggered, gone, adios. Keeping him around is pointless. A part of me hopes we climb up to say 13th so we can grab pick 7 and snag Darling instead of best available midfielder we will probably end up taking at pick 4. I want a FF god darn it

 

[BOND 007]

Just an educated guess about Gumbleton. Essendon have perservered with this kid through a lot of injuries and for that reason i9 can't see them wanting to let him go.
Myers is a different story. Exceptioonally talented and has also had some injuries but is definitely out of favour. This kid could be a good pick up and may not cost us a thing/or relatively not much.

I agree with this whole post. To me Myers is the one I would target at Ess. He is 6"3' weighs 90kg, is an exceptional kick, has pace and can play a variety of positions INCLUDING midfield.
A staright swap of him for Mckinley would be raping Ess so if they didnt agree then throw in WC's 3rd rounder which would never be used anyway.

 

[paran]

Yeah, I think we're being r*ped in that one Bond007. Myers has shown zero at the top level. After this weekends game, I'm convinced that our forward structure does not allow McKinley and Lecras to exist together, which is unfortunate as I think both are really good medium forwards. Myers can't even crack a bad Essendon defence.