Delisting/list changes for 2010

[worsfold]

So all this talk about Gumbleton or Clark is disregarding Wilson?
I know he's a bit of a lynch clone but surely we should give him a game to up his trade value!

 

[Coledinho]

So all this talk about Gumbleton or Clark is disregarding Wilson?
I know he's a bit of a lynch clone but surely we should give him a game to up his trade value!

Flipping a 5c coin wont turn it into a 2 buck coin. Hes got no value and never will

 

[Towno78]

IMO it would be a win both ways. Neither can get a game with their current clubs and both are likely to get a game if the swap happened.

Whilst drafting isnt exact - remember Myers went #6 in the 2007 draft so he's no mug. For those who dont believe in his ability go back to the writeups that Emma Quayle did on the 2007 draft where IIRC she had Myers in the top 10 based on ability.

There are many on the Essendon board convinced Myers would be interested in leaving due to a lack of opportunities, but McKinley would be of no interest to Essendon, we have far too many of his type. Unless of course the unthinkable happened and Gumby decided to leave.
Essendon needs young quality mids, if a 3-way deal with McKinley and Myers was packaged such that Essendon get a young mid that suited our needs or a high pick I'm sure it would be looked at.

 

[beatlesmith]

My problem with Myers comes from the fact we have many athletic runners in our team. We need ballwinners and tall forwards first and foremost.

Ball winners are not a priority at all.
We have Shuey, Stevens, Swift and Masten who are all primarily inside midfielders.
We need outside midfielders that damage the opposition, Full forwards (rather than CHFs) and genuine crumbers, that's it.
Plenty of key backs, plenty of CHFs, plenty of medium/small defenders and forwards.
If we were to draft a ballwinner or one of the aforementioned covered positions, it would have to be using the "best available" mantra.

 

[michael7]

Reading the comments in this thread, not sure if Myers would be what WC need. Myers has looked quite slow and cumbersome at AFL level and it seems like his go at AFL level will be as a big-bodied inside ball-winner. I know he played HBF at U-18's but at AFL level he has looked uncomfortable at HB and I don't think he would have the pace to play as an outside mid as his injuries over the past couple of years seem to have hampered his running.

Hope that helps.

 

[bodazoka]

We need outside midfielders that damage the opposition, Full forwards (rather than CHFs) and genuine crumbers, that's it.

Agree with that bit, id also like to see us grab a genuine ff but its hard to know what a genuine ff is these days though, mabye a taller jack riewoldt. If i could pick young players from other clubs that i think we need id probably grab one of:

Tall Forwards - Tippet, Walker, J.Riewoldt
Goal kicking midfielders - Hill, Murphy
Small forwards - Balantyne, Nahas, Wells, Red haired kid from brisbane, betts, garlett

A couple of players like that with our first couple of picks would really compliment the team. Prefer the midfielder first with our first pick and hope a tall forward drops to our second pick whilst grabing the crummer third pick or rookie.

 

[September_Glory]

I disagree with your assessment about Myers. I had dealings with him before he was drafted and he is an exceptional kid and an exceptional footballer. He fell out with Knights last year and has been on the back foot ever since.
To me he is worth every bit of WC's direct 2nd rounder (likely to be somewhere around the #35 mark or as part of a player swap. Dont pidgehole him as a HBF - he has way more ability than that.

A question out of left field - what about Prismall ?
Cant get a game at Ess and like Myers obviously out of favour with Knights. Does anybody think he's worthwhile ?

What does this mean? Like, you were his school counsellor?

Not crazy about either Myers or Prismall. Get back to this later.

We need outside midfielders that damage the opposition, Full forwards (rather than CHFs) and genuine crumbers, that's it.

This is exactly right and should be posted somewhere in caps on this board so we all know what this off season should be about. It will be considered a failure if at least one of these positions aren't addressed. 2 of the 3 have been screaming out for attention.

The talent base is almost there, still need to find the right team balance.

Which brings me back to Myers and Prismall. I'll turn the tables and ask you Bond, what position is Myers a viable option that isn't already there? Same thing goes for Prismall, not a genuine outside mid and probably not 'quality' enough for my liking. It would be the same feeling as the Dalziell trade.

Off topic, but how much do we regret taking Dalziell over Troy Selwood, which would've gave us a shot at luring Joel in 2 years. Eagles on the way up, Geelong's dynasty ends...

 

[Eastern Rangers]

Why have all four?

Joel > Scott > Adam > Troy

 

[September_Glory]

Why have all four?

Joel would need a pretty big lure to get him to leave. One thing that we could've offered that no one else could was his only opportunity to play with his 3 brothers as Adam and Troy would be 28y.o. and on their last contracts.

Maybe Geelong's dynasty crumbles with Ablett leaving or Eagles come on quicker than expected. At the very least, it poses a question he can't say NO to immediately and provides him with adequate cover if he leaves.

Who can begrudge the guy who chooses family first? Hell, Prime Ministers have been elected on that very slogan.

Look, if LeBron can stab Cleveland in the face like he did. Then who knows what could've been?

 

[Marlin01]

I have been as big an advocate for the Eagles getting a genuine crumber that tackles and kicks goals as anybody, but I think we've addressed the need in the last draft.

Certainly Hams is starting to play the role very well. Also Strijk is coming along nicely and we have Neates and Broome still up our sleeves.

The fact is, we can't afford to spend too many picks on a forward pocket. They aren't ever going to be that important to a team's overall structure. The game is won and lost in the midfield.

With midfield rotations being absolutely essential, I think the forwardline should consist of 2 KPF, a utility such as Lecras and the rest should be midfielder/forwards. That is, players that can be dangerous when forward, but are just as good on the ball. I think Hams, Strijk and by the sounds of Neates, fill this role well.

I think it also is one of the main factors in Masten spending time in the forwardline. I wouldn't mind betting that the coaches are confident Masten can play a midfield role, but are worried about his ability to contribute when he rotates in the forwardline. So they're using the time when he's not fit enough to run out a game in the midfield to get him better at playing forward.

Anyhow, I think we need to focus on two things when we change our team at the end of the season: a kpf that can play both FF and CHF, to offer Kennedy assistance and rest and as many fast, highly-skilled midfielders as we can get our hands on.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

Do we draft best available or do we draft to meet needs?

E.g. Lets say Parker is best available at our pick, but he's an inside midfielder. But what we need is a guy like Polec who is an outside midfielder, but rated a bit lower than Parker.

Who do we draft? What's our strategy?

 

[Eastern Rangers]

I don't count Neates as a small forward, he's first and foremost a midfielde.

Either way we should be looking at forwards. Both a FF and some genuine general forwards both small and medium. Jed Lamb is 187 cm blessed with pace and goal smarts, his defensive pressure in the arch is top notch. Would be an excellent second roundpick should we finish last.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Not overly sure why we we need to focus on another genuine forward.

We already have 2 high quality forwards.

And in terms of KPP forwards - we have Kennedy - if you consider last year's 4 prelim finalists - none had more than one quality key forward.

In reality, only Hawthorn in the last 10 years have had claims to having 2 genuine key position forwards and winning a flag.

Our biggest weakness and more and morewhere the game is won is in the midfield. That's where i reckon our focus should be. It doesn't take much to plonk a bloke at FF to bring the ball to ground for the rest of the team. That's all Mooney and Kozzi do.

 

[Marlin01]

Our biggest weakness and more and morewhere the game is won is in the midfield. That's where i reckon our focus should be. It doesn't take much to plonk a bloke at FF to bring the ball to ground for the rest of the team. That's all Mooney and Kozzi do.

It's a fair point, but what if Kennedy gets injured?

Also, Geelong have Podsy, Hawkins and Ottens.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

It's a fair point, but what if Kennedy gets injured?

Also, Geelong have Podsy, Hawkins and Ottens.

Massive risk isn't it? Not much different to Freo losing Pav, St Kilda losing Riewoldt, Bulldogs losing Hall etc

And in terms of the Geelong forwards - none of those are standout guns - Lynch is a good honest footballer and is the equal of any of those. Those guys show how good an average (not poor, just run of the mill) footballer can be in front of a decent midfield. I might be a little harsh there on pods.

Remember Hansen and Lynch were quality in our GF win - however they aren't quality forwards. I'm just saying we don't need another gun KPF - of course it would be nice - a good honest lead up footballer who can bring the ball to ground is sufficient.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

In reality, only Hawthorn in the last 10 years have had claims to having 2 genuine key position forwards and winning a flag.

Essendon 2000 - Lloyd & Lucas
Brisbane 2001 to 2003 - Brown & Lynch
Sydney 2005 - Hall & O'Loughlin
Hawthorn 2008 - Franklin & Roughead

That's all but 2004 (Lade & Tredrea), 2006 (Hansen & Lynch) and 2007/2009 (Mooney & Ottens/Hawkins) that didn't have two gun forwards. Apart from eagles 2006, every side had at least one AA key position forward.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Essendon 2000 - Lloyd & Lucas
Brisbane 2001 to 2003 - Brown & Lynch
Sydney 2005 - Hall & O'Loughlin
Hawthorn 2008 - Franklin & Roughead

That's all but 2004 (Lade & Tredrea), 2006 (Hansen & Lynch) and 2007/2009 (Mooney & Ottens/Hawkins) that didn't have two gun forwards. Apart from eagles 2006, every side had at least one AA key position forward.

Essendon definitely - though not in the last 10 years.

Brown wasn't a gun KP forward in their premiership years. He was a junior with some talent - but he wasn't a gun by any stretch of the imagination - certainly not up there with a tredrea etc. Brown never even got AA until 2007 (08?). Mooney's AA is laughable

O'loughlin isn't a lot different to lecras, undersized goal kicker, with the exception that he never kicked as many goals in a season as lecras.

Kennedy will need to improve further of course - but we don't need another gun key position forward. Just someone who can contest and bring the ball to ground.

Edit: I also might add that in those 10 years - the players winning the game are largely mdifielders who push forward and kick goals. Mooney kicked 5 in a rout, lynch and rocca got 4 and Lynch got 3. That's no better than the returns by Akermanis, Chapman, Pickett, Wanganeen, Johnson et al. The old days required a quality CHF and FF - however today's gamestyle is all about run and stun.

 

[WCE_phil]

Essendon definitely - though not in the last 10 years.

Brown wasn't a gun KP forward in their premiership years. He was a junior with some talent - but he wasn't a gun by any stretch of the imagination - certainly not up there with a tredrea etc. Brown never even got AA until 2007 (08?). Mooney's AA is laughable

O'loughlin isn't a lot different to lecras, undersized goal kicker.

Kennedy will need to improve further of course - but we don't need another gun key position forward.

Personally i think we do, or at least a second ruckman going into the future who can play FF quite well. The thing is kennedy is a lead up CHF. I would think after the weekends effort where lecras got 12 while kennedy got 1 would show this up to you quite strongly.

Kennedy played a great game and put some great delivery into the forward 50 as well as great defensive pressure and a couple of shots on goal. Personally i think that is kennedy's bag of tricks heading into the future.

Sure he will most likely get better at it but he's not a stay at home 60+ goal a year forward every year. Lecras is also destined to the midfield and could become elite playing as a high half forward or as a genuine midfielder heading into the future.

I've said it repeatedly before, kennedy needs a marking target to kick the ball to. Preferably a quality one. Whether thats a FF already in the system, a jack darling or my preference Gorringe then so be it. But the reality is with mckinley likely to head back east and Lecras heading for more midfield time the reality is we have no FF line.

The other huge likelihood is while we may end up with a better balanced midfield in our next charge its highly unlikely we will end up with one of the 05-07 quality. We need more goal contributors all around but that starts with a solid forward line structure and targets.

Also to those who solely believe premierships are won in the midfield i disagree with that. Its just not that simple. In the current era of mass interchanges and speed,speed,speed you need lots of players who can play as solid midfield rotations, not necessarily superstars running through the middle.

This is where teams like geelong,st kilda and collingwood are so strong. I mean shit look at st kilda, even milne and schneider can take a rotation through the middle reasonably successfully.

For our next charge a solid spine is paramount and as a lot of people have said before. We're one young quality KPP short. The way its working out it seems like its a strong marking FF or a backup to nicnat who can lead and take a good grab.

We're at the point imo of our rebuild where its about filling holes in the list. We need a quality KPF who can work with kennedy well into the future, We need a genuine crumber at that FF's feet and we need 1 more quality outside mid, 2 if lecras doesn't spend a lot more time in midfield.

Saying that we are doing well already with blokes outside of the midfield being able to take runs there in the future. Guys in defence like sheppard, waters, butler, smith, stevenson and hurn may all be able to take solid midfield runs at times as well as guys who are currently playing forward like strijk,hams and most specifically lecras who could be a superstar in that area.

Sorry this has become a bit of a rant and it wasn't specifically focussed towards any one poster, just a bit of my thoughts. I hope we get gorringe out of this draft. Depending on pronounciation its not every day you get a player who's name rhymes with orange or syringe!

 

[new breed]

Woosha gave Notte a ray of hope today at his Press Conference saying that he had very exciting talent and because of his body shape probably wont be exposed to AFL untill 22-23 yrs of age ....... Geezz I cant wait that long Dont think Suma is as generous and Woosha might be all Spin Spin Spin !

 

[Eastern Rangers]

How about McKinley + 3rd Rounder for Myers + Secound Rounder?

Asking to much perhaps?

 

[WCE_phil]

How about McKinley + 3rd Rounder for Myers + Secound Rounder?

Asking to much perhaps?

Well i think it all depends on who finishes lower on the ladder. But mckinley and our second rounder for myers + a downgrade to their second rounder might work. Or even more like mckinley + our first rounder for Myers + their first rounder.

I guess it all depends on how both clubs value myers and whether or not he wants to be there.

 

[tesseract]

I don't count Neates as a small forward, he's first and foremost a midfielde.

Either way we should be looking at forwards. Both a FF and some genuine general forwards both small and medium. Jed Lamb is 187 cm blessed with pace and goal smarts, his defensive pressure in the arch is top notch. Would be an excellent second roundpick should we finish last.

I've been thinking similarly. WC, with some maneuvering at trade time could build a good FF line in a single draft. Darling, Lamb and Elissiou would be hella good gets IMO.

I'm not filled with confidence about Neates and Broome as FP's. Hams is ok, but I'm unsure if he's the teams answer to our FP needs.

 

[Yoda_]

I think if people came and made an offer for Myers, we would certainly look at it..

As for McKinley being apart of the trade, I don't think we will take it, we already have a few mid sized goal kickers in Monfries, M.Williams, Reimers plays this role as does Zaharakis..

I think we would look at a good young midfielder if we were to look at trading players + picks..

Hope that helps..

Myers + Essendon 3rd round For West Coast 2nd Round?

Am I dreaming?

 

[tesseract]

West Coast should let Myers be. WC don't need anymore inside mids or backline players.

 

[September_Glory]

Depending on pronounciation its not every day you get a player who's name rhymes with orange or syringe!

That's only like 8th or 9th on the list of priorities for our first draft pick; names that rhyme with common foods.

Hard to comment on draft day stuff until we know where we will be picking, especially with the GC concessions this year.

As for McKinley being apart of the trade, I don't think we will take it, we already have a few mid sized goal kickers in Monfries, M.Williams, Reimers plays this role as does Zaharakis..

I think people proposing McKinley to Essendon are thinking he would be your FF option ie: Neagle's spot. Not sure I agree with that as a long-term option for you guys.

Myers + Essendon 3rd round For West Coast 2nd Round?

That seems like a steal for WC, but...

Again, I will ask. What does Myers bring to the roster that is not already abundantly there? Am I missing something or is he that damm good we have to try to get him? (Ala Des Headland situation) I don't see it.